NO TROLLS Hawthorn Racism Review - Sensitive issues discussed.

[Wosh]

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NO TROLLS - Hawthorn Racism Review - Sensitive issues discussed.

Don’t use this thread as an opportunity to troll North or any other clubs, you’ll be removed from the discussion. Stick to the topic and please keep it civil and respectful to those involved. Keep personal arguements out of this thread. Help moderators by not quoting obvious trolls and use the...

www.bigfooty.com

Link to Hawthorn Statement. - Link to ABC Sports article. - Leaked Report

 

[mcnulty]

Nope.

Clarkson's official response from last week is posted as a sticky for this thread. It says this:

"As the matters are now subject to an investigation, I will not make any further comment at this stage."

This is Clarkson and his team trying to catch up with the PR train. It has nothing to do with process.

Clarkson today:

"It remains profoundly disappointing that these matters are now being widely canvassed in the public domain without the opportunity being given to me or others to give our accounts or even read the Hawthorn report, which to this day I have not seen,"

Again, what do you this is a reasonable timeframe for him to examine the report and officially respond?

 

[kingswood71]

The report of the finding of the AFL investigation. Which is what will determine Clarksons fate, at least in the short term. He may well feel aggrieved by the ABC report and public perceptions around it, but at the end of the day it won’t be what decides thing here.

Aware of that. I was however talking about injunctions.

 

[SunshineBoy]

Those emails were contained as appendices in the Hawthorn commissioned review, right - presumedly the author of the report (Egan) has the hard copies of the emails and referenced them in his forwarding report to the Hawthorn Footy Club?

In which case senior current Hawthorn Board members/officials had access to them(as part of the full report) for the past month. They would certainly know if those emails were real or not.

And if they weren’t they would be screaming it from the rooftops

 

[lioninthesand]

I once represented firefighters in my job... I heard of an incident where most of the employees from a fire station drove to a house and removed a co-worker from domestic violence and physically threatened the partner.

Police stations, Firefighting stations, soldiers, footy clubs... etc etc... they are not your normal workplaces. Your lives, including your private lives, are connected... it becomes a sub culture.

OK so what’s your argument here?

Mine was, no way would this occur in a normal work place with modern HR processes, unless it was a cow boy organisation.

Yours is, it does occur in abnormal work environments.

Sooo what are we doing here?

 

[Festerz]

Clarkson today:

"It remains profoundly disappointing that these matters are now being widely canvassed in the public domain without the opportunity being given to me or others to give our accounts or even read the Hawthorn report, which to this day I have not seen,"

Again, what do you this is a reasonable timeframe for him to examine the report and officially respond?

He could of course do what he said he would do a few days ago and wait for the official investigation before commenting.

BUT on the day the full report is publicly released via the media one of the most successful and powerful people in the richest sporting competition in the country, with access to one of the largest media platforms has the chance to tell his side of the story or to categorically deny what has been alleged. But he does neither.

He instead frames himself as a victim of injustice, undermines the experiences of the Indigenous players and criticises the process that has been established to verify the accuracy of the allegations before it has even started.

Clarkson was playing a PR game with his carefully crafted release today. Nothing more or less.

And it has backfired spectacularly.

 

[SunshineBoy]

It really doesn't matter. He may have delegated responsibility for communication from his official Hawthorn FC email address but he remains totally responsible for the quality and content of communications from it, he has to have total confidence in and take full responsibility for the delegation. The fact that he doesn't seem to understand even this is gobsmacking.

AFL commissioner charged with being a custodian of our game

 

[SunshineBoy]

The text messages between Jason Burt should also be investigated.

He will be the sacrifice by the AFL will get a big payout on the sly and clarkson and afghan will be cleared

 

[mcnulty]

Aware of that. I was however talking about injunctions.

I’d imagine injunctions (presuming he received the the ABCs offer and sought legal advice in time) would probably have been interpreted just as negatively- that he had something hide. And again whether he swings or walks won’t be determined by that. Probably advised it wasn’t worth it.

 

[SunshineBoy]

Maybe he felt he needed to put his cards on the table.

Specifically to those leaking the potentially defaming material of the repercussions of not giving him due process?

It reads to me as a threat to the media and the AFL.

He wants the review conducted quickly and if there's any more leaks prior to him being able to review the allegations, it's likely going to end up in legal action.

So who at the AFL do you reckon is leaking it , thats why any review needs to review AFL head office first , then worry about the clubs, clean the sewer first

 

[mcnulty]

He could of course do what he said he would do and wait for the official investigation before commenting.

Or refute the allegations and say he welcomes the opportunity to refute them in detail via the official investigation.

Not sure if serious. He has refuted the allegations, today quite forcefully. He did this clearly in response to the persistent leaks, otherwise I very much doubt we would have heard from him today.

And he said from the start he intends to co operate with the official investigation.

 

[SunshineBoy]

Very interesting

Gil was saying that the "allegations" were not in the report. Not sure if this was discussed already?

Gilligan bought new carpets two weeks ago

 

[Luv_our_club]

OK so what’s your argument here?

Mine was, no way would this occur in a normal work place with modern HR processes, unless it was a cow boy organisation.

Yours is, it does occur in abnormal work environments.

Sooo what are we doing here?

I'm saying that I would not be surprised to hear that a lot of clubs have helped players break up with partners... and that a lot of partners of players have come to clubs for help and support with their marriages or after break-ups. I would guess that even partners who had short flings with players would have come to the club for support and help.

I don't think the mere presence of Clarkson in the players home and the club helping him move out is the issue.

It is all the allegations around that and why... which make it problematic.


I don't think the club crossed a red-line merely being in the players house to participate in a break up... but obviously such a visit will never happen again, at any club.

 

[Heeney2Franklin]

Just on gut feel... i find it extremely hard to believe that men like Clarkson and Fagan who have been around so many years could have tried to take an expecting father from a pregnant woman without that wish being expressed by the player himself... but time will tell.

Not worded like that no.

 

[Forward Press]

Think the club has dome the right thing not commenting.
You only have to look in this thread to see that anyone that doesn't agree with the accusations is met with a level of vitrol

Those who have posted to wait and see haven't been met with vitriol. I think almost everyone here agrees we need for the investigation to run its course to uncover a greater semblance of truth before people get fired.

Those who have been engaging in victim-blaming and conspiracy talk have indeed encountered vitriol - and deservedly so.

 

[Curly5]

Clarkson cannot say he has had no opportunity to give his side of the story then. He should sit back and let the process proceed .

He has not maintained his silence, he is portraying himself as a victim which is laughable.

Would you prefer he outed the player/s and threw them under a bus? In an attempt to excuse himself?

 

[Festerz]

He has refuted the allegations, today quite forcefully.

Ahh yes.

The forceful 'My clear memory of the matters reported is different' response.

Signed off with the 'I will not hesitate to take further steps to protect my position and reputation should that be necessary' threat of intimidation.

This is a man of power and privilege swinging his dick to threaten those who dare challenge him in response to a PR backlash that is beyond his control.


The 'mafia don' comment from a former Hawthorn coach never rang truer.

 

[Ingy]

This report is so badly written it’s not worth the publish to pdf. If we delivered this to a client we’d be fired.

Is there more? I hope so. I hope so for Egan, HFC and Rusty et al.

I tend to agree with this. I'm not an expert on these kinds of reports but it isn't consistent enough in terms of register and tone for mine.

To be clear I still think it looks like Clarkson and Fagan are finished as AFL coaches. The emails ring true. There's no way this stuff's been made up. It happened.

 

[tandino]

I don't think the club crossed a red-line merely being in the players house to participate in a break up....

Can't you see how this would be a problem.

 

[Slartibartfast]

And he is respecting the players privacy and the privacy of co-defendants. These are sensitive issues.

There may even be things that he can't say about private lives that are important to what happened.

He is protecting his own backside, thats all.

He can speak to the allegations without naming names .

He has now made two statements which dont have any specifics other than a blanket denial and has played the I‘m a victim card.

 

[Reginald Perrin]

Show me an example who wants Clarko and Fagan banned without even an investigation?

Search function is your friend, but here's a few...

Both Clarkson, Fagan and Burt should be banned from any role in the AFL. They, the Hawthorn Football Club administrators at the time and Jeff Kennett should face criminal charges.

Under the AFL leadership we have had over the last two decades profit has come before people and lives have repeatedly been put at risk.

The fact that it was a club investigation where the findings have now come out, it's more than safe bet they are guilty.

Clarkson and Fagan need to be banned for life.

In the team's case, kicked out of the draft for 5 years and handed a multi million dollar fine.

As stated this is far, far worse than what Carlton did who got the biggest sanction in the history of the game.

On SM-G781B using BigFooty.com mobile app

The details that these players and their partners have given are pretty clear. That is one of the hardest reads I have had for a long time. "Zac" makes a good point about the over representation of privileged young men on draft day. How many times have we heard "he comes from a good family".

Clarkson, Fagan and Burt need to be banned. Like a teacher fiddling with the kids. They were directly involved including driving around to the players' homes and intervening in contact.

This A. O. Neville level s**t. Disgusting trash humans.

 

[SunshineBoy]

Are you accusing Gil of being involved in a cover up??

No never

 

[Slartibartfast]

Would you prefer he outed the player/s and threw them under a bus? In an attempt to excuse himself?

If the players and partners are lying , yes.

He is choosing not to reply yet claims he has not had a chance to air his version….. but has made 2 statements
If your a victim Al tells us why??

 

[SunshineBoy]

No he doesn't.

The 'process' that has been announced by the AFL is an independent review headed by a highly qualified silk to ensure due process is followed. That process will not be influenced by 'leaks' of materials they will have full access to.

If anything it is a damning reflection on the leadership of McLachlan that he decided to sit on this report for more than a fortnight without seeing how damaging it was for alleged victims and their perpetrators and the AFL itself. It seems to me that he did what he always does - sat on it assuming his minions would develop a strategy to sweep it under the carpet.

But either someone within Hawthorn or AFL House got tired of the way AFL operates and decided to give it to the ABC to investigate. And the light of public scrutiny has finally been allowed in.

This is Clarkson and his legal team trying to get ahead of public opinion. Nothing more or less.

What fortnight ? HFC and the AFL got it a month ago, they were trying to bury it

 

[mcnulty]

Ahh yes.

The forceful 'My clear memory of the matters reported is different' response.

Signed off with the 'I will not hesitate to take further steps to protect my position and reputation should that be necessary' threat of intimidation.

This is a man of power and privilege swinging his dick to those who dare challenge him.

Nothing more or less.

The mafia comment from a former Hawthorn coach never rang truer.

Amazing. People in here will resent any attempt he makes to defend himself, simultaneously rationalising that it not enough! Some saying he needs to do more for PR, others claiming he’s simply doing what he’s doing for PR!

Look I got punted from this thread last night for pretty taking what I thought was a pretty modest position, so I’m outta here before this happens again.

But I‘ll finish on this- Clarkson has indicated his cooperation with the report, and has only spoken out only in response to media reports that preempted it. He is entitled entirely to defend himself to best of his abilities and resources, as should we all if accused. I honestly believe that short of a full admission and mea culpa, some in here wouldnt be happy with whatever Clarkson did at this point.

 

[RocketBooster]

North has really copped a mess here, not of their making.

I can't see how Clarko will coach next year with these continuous allegations, nnough mud has stuck

Sponsors will be putting the NOrth board under pressure for an exit strategy and players who might have come for Clarko aren't going to want to touch that for now either.