Autopsy Hawthorn vs Suns

[raff23]

Please explain

when he has the ball is a very damaging player, needs to work on when he doesnt have it and to get better at 1 on 1s, a few times he got beaten in 1 on 1s and other times he was lazy and just conceded posession, not much of a factor against average opposition, in big games that sort of thing gets exposed.

 

[raff23]

happy to get the points but it was an ugly win . was not impressed with our skill level nor with our decision making . that will need to improve . ok , what i learnt from this game .

1 - great to see breust get a full game and thank clarko with 4 goals . also ran rings
around browny a couple of time which was nice to see .

2 - savage is by far our biggest improver . great game young fella .

3 - thought lisle did his job down back and was impressed with his field kicking .

4 buddy had a shocker . one of worst i've seen him play . bock did ok but buddy
just had a shocker .

5 - surely buddy will get off or there will be a fricken riot ! nothing in it ...

6 - baily and hale could work but hale needs to lift his work rate .

7 - we will have to lift our game - skill , pressure , tackle intensity and decision making
to beat a desperate bummers team next week .

8 - we can still finish top 4 with our cattle , barring no more serious injuries .

9 - the ground at lonny should have been built so the sun goes across the ground .
what a pain the arse .

10 - i hate listening to tv commentators .

actually wasnt as bad you think, took a few good contested marks which he hardly ever does, took 10 marks overall presented well and really could have kicked 5 at least, if kicking 3.4 is a shocking game we have unrealistic expectations for him, what was a shocking was his stupidity with the report.

 

[The BIG X]

when he has the ball is a very damaging player, needs to work on when he doesnt have it and to get better at 1 on 1s, a few times he got beaten in 1 on 1s and other times he was lazy and just conceded posession, not much of a factor against average opposition, in big games that sort of thing gets exposed.

Havn't noticed it but will keep an eye open

 

[m0zza]

IMO a set shot position from the boundary 35 metres out is better than a non scoring position any day. Whitecross is actually not a bad kick, he was capable of scoring from there.

Nobody kicks goals from out there at York Park

 

[savagelunchbox]

Please explain

I just don't reckon, in the last couple of games, he has been doing the defensive things as hard as he does the offensive things.
Notice quite a few times where he lacked effort in his spoiling, didn't put sufficient pressure on the opposition player at times, and doesn't make a good enough effort to smother kicks (although he's not the only one with this).

He was doing that stuff at the beginning of the year but has dropped off his effort in the last few game. Makes me think of why he couldn't get games in the previous years (excluding the injuries he had).

It's not a knock on him and i'm not calling for him to be dropped. I'm calling him out to give me/us the defensive efforts he was giving at the beginning of the year because we know he can do it.

 

[Knights 24]

By my count only 9 premiership players from 2008.

Quite amazing we had 13 new players in the team inside 2.5 years.

 

[Flukey!]

The thing that stands out for me from today, is this:

Player Name K H D M HO T FF FA G B DT
1 Shane Savage 20 13 33 12 0 4 2 0 4 0 164
2 Sam Mitchell 23 15 38 8 0 3 3 2 0 0 132
3 Liam Shiels 16 11 27 8 1 5 3 2 0 2 114
4 Luke Breust 14 6 20 6 0 4 1 1 4 2 112
5 Matt Suckling 20 9 29 6 0 3 0 1 1 0 111

Of the top 5 players today, 4 are just starting their careers.
How good is that?

 

[illnino]

The thing that stands out for me from today, is this:

Player Name K H D M HO T FF FA G B DT
1 Shane Savage 20 13 33 12 0 4 2 0 4 0 164
2 Sam Mitchell 23 15 38 8 0 3 3 2 0 0 132
3 Liam Shiels 16 11 27 8 1 5 3 2 0 2 114
4 Luke Breust 14 6 20 6 0 4 1 1 4 2 112
5 Matt Suckling 20 9 29 6 0 3 0 1 1 0 111

Of the top 5 players today, 4 are just starting their careers.
How good is that?

And I've had Suckling, Savage and Breust in my SC team since day 1

Was getting sick of Breust's sub scores so decided to bench him this week

 

[chenyan]

Strangely anti-climactic 71 point win.

One very minor negative, on a player I'm absolutely loving the season of.

Liam Shiels is starting to look more and more like Steven Greene, Tim Clarke, Craig Treleven et al... which I do not like. Getting the ball that much for a young bloke is absolutely fantastic and I couldn't be happier with his output given his age and development. However, he really needs to learn from the likes of Hodge & Mitchell with regard to how he uses it. Far too many long bombs, quick snaps and rushed turnovers due to a lack of composure. If he can fix this flaw, he can genuinely become an elite midfielder imo. Really great talent.

Savage, Suckling, Smith and Shiels are awesome to watch; going to be a good few years yet I think..

 

[Adelaide Hawk]

actually wasnt as bad you think, took a few good contested marks which he hardly ever does, took 10 marks overall presented well and really could have kicked 5 at least, if kicking 3.4 is a shocking game we have unrealistic expectations for him, what was a shocking was his stupidity with the report.

You're right with what you say, but tell the truth. Are you getting a little annoyed by this 3.4, 3.5, 4.6 stuff from Buddy? I know he's never going to kick an 8.0, but surely it shouldn't be too much to ask for a 6.2 for a change. Unfortunately for the next couple ofd weeks it will be 0.0

 

[grizzlym]

I thought Osborne made a big difference to the coherence of our forward line when he came on. Much to love about Breust. He just needs game time and he'll really blossom.

 

[Easy Slips Catch]

Dumb move to leave Sammy untagged. Cant see a good team falling for that one.

We played Sewell on GAJ for the first half of each quarter,then used Lewis for the second half. GAJ is completely unaccountable. Head to head Lewis beat him comfortably.

Leave Burger down back. His strength in close is invaluable and he does not have to run a mile to get a touch.

Good to see Moose's attack on the footy. He has looked more assured at AFL level than he does at VFL. Plus it was great to see one of our defenders as tall as his opponent.

Sort of agree with the Sucko comments. Defensively he is suspect. But that foot. The kick in to Hodge in the second quarter! He is a game breaker not a game saver.

 

[Dixie Flatline]

You're right with what you say, but tell the truth. Are you getting a little annoyed by this 3.4, 3.5, 4.6 stuff from Buddy? I know he's never going to kick an 8.0, but surely it shouldn't be too much to ask for a 6.2 for a change. Unfortunately for the next couple ofd weeks it will be 0.0

To be fair to Buddy, he does tend to generate a lot of scoring shots at or beyond the 50 metre arc. He's not like a Jack Riewoldt who will generate most scoring shots from within 40 metres. Beyond the 50 metre arc, accuracy does tend to reduce.

 

[Dragz]

I thought Buddy looked a little lazy yesterday. He'd make a lead then basically stop and trot back. Very few hard leads, double backs and lead agains.

And of course, the pet bugbear of having our FullForward (Whichever player rotated through there) standing 20 metres out from goal when the ball was 60 out. Funnily enough the long kick in then dropped on their head instead of into a space for them to lead into.

Loved watching Smith. Was easy to pick him out at the ground, he was the one running his guts out and kicking long.

Savage and Breust all looked good. Thought Lisle did well except for one slip up. Murphy was good too.

Far too much handballing in the first 3 quarters though. I wonder if it was a deliberate plan so as to keep the GC boys chasing the ball and wear them down even faster?

Props to Big Max, so nice to have a ruckman hit the ball to our players.

Thought Laddo looked good until he went off to.

Fair result at the end of the day, cruise control kicked in and no injuries to Talls

 

[SSSSSS]

I thought Osborne made a big difference to the coherence of our forward line when he came on. Much to love about Breust. He just needs game time and he'll really blossom.

Definately lacked Ozzies forward pressure early on in the game. Was hoping he might of roughed Browny up

 

[whiteTiga2k]

Dumb move to leave Sammy untagged. Cant see a good team falling for that one.

We played Sewell on GAJ for the first half of each quarter,then used Lewis for the second half. GAJ is completely unaccountable. Head to head Lewis beat him comfortably.

Leave Burger down back. His strength in close is invaluable and he does not have to run a mile to get a touch.

Good to see Moose's attack on the footy. He has looked more assured at AFL level than he does at VFL. Plus it was great to see one of our defenders as tall as his opponent.

Sort of agree with the Sucko comments. Defensively he is suspect. But that foot. The kick in to Hodge in the second quarter! He is a game breaker not a game saver.

did you guys see that kick he did to Hale? camera angle was a little different as it was behind him... and he played on to himself then did an around the corner bomb... had no idea who it was going to till Hale marked it with heavy pressure on in the lead about 60 out from the goal we were defending. I was in awe of the quality and confidence he has with his kicks... an asset to the team

 

[m0zza]

You're right with what you say, but tell the truth. Are you getting a little annoyed by this 3.4, 3.5, 4.6 stuff from Buddy? I know he's never going to kick an 8.0, but surely it shouldn't be too much to ask for a 6.2 for a change. Unfortunately for the next couple ofd weeks it will be 0.0

Think you'll find that the 4 behinds missed by a total of about a metre, and none were easy set shots....

 

[Mojo]

Dumb move to leave Sammy untagged. Cant see a good team falling for that one.

We played Sewell on GAJ for the first half of each quarter,then used Lewis for the second half. GAJ is completely unaccountable. Head to head Lewis beat him comfortably.

Leave Burger down back. His strength in close is invaluable and he does not have to run a mile to get a touch.

Good to see Moose's attack on the footy. He has looked more assured at AFL level than he does at VFL. Plus it was great to see one of our defenders as tall as his opponent.

Sort of agree with the Sucko comments. Defensively he is suspect. But that foot. The kick in to Hodge in the second quarter! He is a game breaker not a game saver.

I think he's still the one player in our team that is underated outside of Hawthorn. He is elite, and not just elite; elite-elite.

You know how you can tell? Because whenever he has the ball, no matter the degree of pressure, you feel confident that for that moment the ball is safe from the opposition.

 

[Beandip]

I agree Mojo, his composure in heavy traffic is amazing as well. Another thing I noticed in particular yesterday is that he also positions really well to assist the young kids to get a few touches and get going, he will handball in traffic then position to get a receive if they need to get out of trouble.

Some of his passages yesterday were pretty amazing, just stopping and propping and using the left OR right to thread the needle to someone in space, real clever player, and the worst thing opposition can do is give him time or space because he will murder it, as he's used to extracting in split-second circumstances!

 

[Dragz]

Mitch was generally great, but FFS, when we get a free kick in the middle of the ground, can we actually take the kick, rather than a gimp handball into trouble??

 

[Leather Poisoning]

Mitchell was phenomenal - really showed that he is a player that needs defensive attention from the opposition.

Buddy had a shocker but seemed to refocus after faking for a free and getting one against him. Took some confident, aggressive, one-grab marks and started doing the simple things really well.

As for the commentary - I gotta say that I got really sick of them talking up Gold Coast's competitive performance. Gold Coast were pathetic. Really bad. Even in their 'competitive first half' they were behind at quarter time (that was when they were supposedly playing well) and then got steadily worse.

They'll be good but the commentators really need to be a bit more honest. Was much more impressed with Blight's commentary (e.g. the hawks are 50 points up and it's a lead they deserve).

I think Burger should be played on a back flank more often to get his hands on the footy more often. Good in traffic, good decision maker, good skills. Perfect position for him.

I liked Hale taking a couple of big marks at the end of the game - really important that he makes his presence felt in the air because he is god-awful at applying ground pressure.

Not sure why we had two ruckmen trying to tap the thing for a while there - that was odd. In fact, Max and Hale were fighting for the same ground ball at one point! Bizarre.

Ozzie is a great option for sub. Geelong use the sub rule well with Milburn and we're using it really well with HFF types that can come on and up the forward pressure when others are starting to tire.

Jordan Lisle looked confident and poised. Full forward next week - very lucky to have a second chance to redeem himself after the shankfest two weeks ago. Made the most of his opportunity yesterday and I expect him to do the same on Friday night.

Very average performance for a 70 point win. We did what we needed to. Hodge got some touches, Smith, Lisle and Hale got a run - these guys will be increasingly important as time goes on. We won the ruck stats again (poor opposition though). Could get used to this....

 

[savagelunchbox]

did you guys see that kick he did to Hale? camera angle was a little different as it was behind him... and he played on to himself then did an around the corner bomb... had no idea who it was going to till Hale marked it with heavy pressure on in the lead about 60 out from the goal we were defending. I was in awe of the quality and confidence he has with his kicks... an asset to the team

Yup. His kicking is sublime. Looks an odd style, but gee its effective. It's just the defense side of his game that i'm questioning. For a man in his 5th year at Hawthorn you wouldn't want to be seeing him getting beaten by 1st yr players too often.

 

[WillowSF]

Can't read too much into the game. Suns are a poor team.

A few observations:

- Kicking to Buddy up forward still needs some work. He needs to be leading and not in a contested marking situation.

- I really liked Burgoyne's game. It's not a bad idea to leave him down back where he can setup plays and organize the backline. Perhaps rotate him with Hodge.

- Bruest might just be the find of they year. Very silky indeed.

- I've seen enough of Hale to suggest that North did a number on us. He is slow and just not good enough. Given our key position woes I can only hope he is able to compete and kick the occasional goal.

I watched the North vs Essendon game and the Bombers were pretty good after quarter time. Without Buddy it's going to be a very close game. We will need our platinum grade mid field at it's best to win.

 

[Boyler_Room]

I agree on Hale. I think it was more Collingwood and Leigh Brown that duped us.

I reckon Simon Taylor, while a potentially a poorer option, would have definitely cheaper than paying for Hale and with our ruck injuries and the sub rule may have complimented Bailey well.

Hindsight is awesome though.

 

[Leather Poisoning]

I agree on Hale. I think it was more Collingwood and Leigh Brown that duped us.

I reckon Simon Taylor, while a potentially a poorer option, would have definitely cheaper than paying for Hale and with our ruck injuries and the sub rule may have complimented Bailey well.

Hindsight is awesome though.

Woah woah woah,

let's cast our mind back to every game that Taylor played over the last three years. Cries of 'drop him!' 'gives away too many free kicks' 'not AFL standard' etc (and they were the nicer ones). It's easy to forget.

At the moment the only real criticism we can have of Hale is that he is slow and poor at ground level. Give him a month and I think he'll be kicking a few goals and winning most of his tap outs and we'll be pretty damn happy.