HFC - 'The Mini Rebuild'

[Prem87]

Couldn't match the Sydney offers. 1 million over three years for Mumford is crazy money, a good prospect, but he left Geelong and a chance to win a premiership over the next two years, so he thought it was overs for him aswell.

Seaby also got a lucrative deal. Something we can't match due to having a pay structure for certain players.

Skipper is a bit worse than both, but on a base contract.

Fair enough. It is a shame you guys dont have a gun ruckman. Hopefully Skipper adds some value to your team and Bailey finally gets onto the park. You are a big bodied full back and a gun ruckman away from dominating the competition.

Burgoyne is a Superstar

 

[Simon_Nesbit]

Fair enough. It is a shame you guys dont have a gun ruckman. Hopefully Skipper adds some value to your team and Bailey finally gets onto the park. You are a big bodied full back and a gun ruckman away from dominating the competition.

Burgoyne is a Superstar

....and AC doesn't rate gorilla full-backs. So I guess by rd.10 we'll be dominating the competition. I guess I can wait that long.

 

[Easy Slips Catch]

The gorilla full back is only half the story. We need someone who can win a one on one against the big guys. Lake and Scarlett dont defend they go out and beat an opponent.

Gilham needs to take his game to that level. He needs to get angry and work at beating his direct opponent. The only other option is to throw Roughie down back.

 

[Number 24]

The gorilla full back is only half the story. We need someone who can win a one on one against the big guys. Lake and Scarlett dont defend they go out and beat an opponent.

Gilham needs to take his game to that level. He needs to get angry and work at beating his direct opponent. The only other option is to throw Roughie down back.

There is a good deal of emphasis on the Gorilla Full Back. It is really a lot of crap. Lake and Scarlett are the two best full backs in the cpmp and neither are gorillas They are a good size, have good leg speed, are physically strong and are good to very good foorballers.

We have brought one similar backman into the club in Josh Gibson. Gilham does not need to "get angry". He needs to be injury free and that was the problem in 2009, he could not shake the knee injury and he lost fitness. He does beat his opponent and is a springboard, like Scarlett and Lake are.

In 2010 the Hawks will have a phycically stronger backline. Gibson and Gilham are two. Ellis will be back much stronger than ever before (but not hugely bulked up) He has been training 4 days per week since before the last season ended, despite the fact he was in a moon boot. The beefed up mid field with Jnr Burger and Young, not to forget Sheils and a couple of others who are coming along at a rapid pace, allows Hodge to be a HBF. Don't rule out Mitchell back there in the Hodge sweeping role either. Ladson adds a bit and will revert to his close down role on the medium/smaller opposition forwards.

Then I think you might find there are one or two surprise packets to be revealed in the back half set up. Don't discount Skipper to play a role as a mobile backman who can take the bigger forwards either alone or to provide a double team effort on the likes of Mr J Brown from Brisbane. Gilham will take Fevola as he has done in the past (and successfully).

Same at Sydney now that they have Bradshaw, or the Dogs with Hall. The Saints forwards are the most dangerous IMO, but the way to beat them and all other forwards for that matter, is not ith gorilla backmen, but the same way that killed our forwards in 2009........win the stoppages. We were the worst at winning the clearences in the comp in 2009 and our forwards suffered as a consequence.

The Hawks have been working very very hard in the training sessions at winning the congested, contested ball and moving it the length of the ground with speed by hand and foot and deadly 40 - 65 metre kicks to the forwards. You don't need gorilla backmen or angry backmen to do that.

 

[DannyJ]

There is a good deal of emphasis on the Gorilla Full Back. It is really a lot of crap. Lake and Scarlett are the two best full backs in the cpmp and neither are gorillas They are a good size, have good leg speed, are physically strong and are good to very good foorballers.

We have brought one similar backman into the club in Josh Gibson. Gilham does not need to "get angry". He needs to be injury free and that was the problem in 2009, he could not shake the knee injury and he lost fitness. He does beat his opponent and is a springboard, like Scarlett and Lake are.

In 2010 the Hawks will have a phycically stronger backline. Gibson and Gilham are two. Ellis will be back much stronger than ever before (but not hugely bulked up) He has been training 4 days per week since before the last season ended, despite the fact he was in a moon boot. The beefed up mid field with Jnr Burger and Young, not to forget Sheils and a couple of others who are coming along at a rapid pace, allows Hodge to be a HBF. Don't rule out Mitchell back there in the Hodge sweeping role either. Ladson adds a bit and will revert to his close down role on the medium/smaller opposition forwards.

Then I think you might find there are one or two surprise packets to be revealed in the back half set up. Don't discount Skipper to play a role as a mobile backman who can take the bigger forwards either alone or to provide a double team effort on the likes of Mr J Brown from Brisbane. Gilham will take Fevola as he has done in the past (and successfully).

Same at Sydney now that they have Bradshaw, or the Dogs with Hall. The Saints forwards are the most dangerous IMO, but the way to beat them and all other forwards for that matter, is not ith gorilla backmen, but the same way that killed our forwards in 2009........win the stoppages. We were the worst at winning the clearences in the comp in 2009 and our forwards suffered as a consequence.

The Hawks have been working very very hard in the training sessions at winning the congested, contested ball and moving it the length of the ground with speed by hand and foot and deadly 40 - 65 metre kicks to the forwards. You don't need gorilla backmen or angry backmen to do that.

Very good post

 

[DannyJ]

Fair enough. It is a shame you guys dont have a gun ruckman. Hopefully Skipper adds some value to your team and Bailey finally gets onto the park. You are a big bodied full back and a gun ruckman away from dominating the competition.

Burgoyne is a Superstar

It is a shame we don't have a Brendan Lade from a few years ago, for sure.

Skipper is depth, won't be great, but will give it a go something we required on our list in case of injury.

Max Bailey is the key for the 2nd half of the year. If he comes back and stays back, we have a genuine No.1 ruckman on our list. At the moment we have Renouf who is a No.2 and Taylor who is also a No.2. As a unit if they work together, it might perform consistently to a competitive level which is all our midfield needs.

A bigger backman (Croad) would be handy. However looking through the St. Kilda backline, which was the best in 2009, they don't have many players bigger than ours.

Sydney had Bolton/Barry which is a similar size to Gibson/Gilham when they won a flag in 2005.

I don't think you require every piece of the puzzle in to win a premiership however. It isn't likely most teams have that with salary caps etc. I am happy our weakness is our ruck division and not our forward line overall.

Cheers

 

[WeneedyoungJarmans]

One thing is certain, if you fear change, and you stand still for too long, you will definitely fail.

Our club may have lost Croad, Crawford, Dew, Williams and Campbell - all worthy premiership players.

But contrasting views when cosidering a season as a whole, and career and future value, may suggest that their loss could be overestimated.

Crawford - a great champion premiership player and brownlow medallist of the Hawthorn Football Club - in 2008 stuggled to get on the park and be consistent. He lost all the power and pace in his legs. His Rd 17 return was just a game and he worked his way back to provide a presence throughout the finals campaign. But a retiring champion far from his best he was.

Dew - A big impact player in the 2008 GF, did very little other than fill a void for 2/3rd of a season with his fair share of injuries.

I don't want to sit here and condemn these players as they matured like a fine wine at the right time. The 2008 season was like marinating a nice roast, cooking it for just the right time, letting it sit and carving it to perfection at the right time for serving.

That is my analogy for a lot of players that were part of meticulous preparation that led to a side peaking at the right time.

Moving forward - 2010 - the club has addressed major structural deficiencies it had in 2008 and 09. The trading of Burgoyne was immense. So often I sat through matches in 2008 thinking, we are great, but we can be unstoppable with a first class running midfielder. Crawford - did not give us what Burgoyne will.

Stop...And think of the change you will see in a midfield comprising of Burgoyne, Rioli and Bateman coupled with an uncompromising inside midfield group of Mitchell, Lewis, Sewell and Hodge.

Our backline now has more depth. Croad was a good degating player, we had little else in the big man department and somehow monstered our way through a finals series with deficiencies down back. Now, Gilham, Gibson, Shoenmakers, Birchall and Murphy give us height, strength, flexibility and run to complement the rebounding smalls.

Our forward line, in 2007 lacked a crumbing forward. Pick 12 - presto - in case Rioli and Stokes the rookie gave our forward line a new dimension. So many sides in the competition adopting suit with small tackling forwards in vogue.

We now have - Hooper, Stokes, Rioli, Osborne, Moss, Petersen, Duryea who can all play that sort of role and play up the field as link up mid / half forwards. We have small forward / midfield rotation depth that basically means from way down back, through the middle, half forward down to forward pocket, we are rich in ball winners and dangerous players.

Our key position players are coming of age and others are emerging. Roughead and Franklin yet to peak in their careers. Dowler on the cusp of giving the forward line a new dimension with his flexibility. Shoenmakers is as exciting a defender I've seen in the past couple of yrs in the afl.

Ruck wise, though lacking a ready made big name, there are honest workers available. Taylor, Renouf - ready. Bailey - should not be discounted for a 2010 mid season return. The other 2 may surprise and push for senior selection.

I see the stars aligning with this list. Like a fine wine, it is maturing with all the richness of flavours that have been put into this list, what 2010 opens could be a Grange!

 

[Arkadia]

I will raise my glass to you and drink a 'Grange Wine' on a well thought out post. Bravo.

 

[Dipper]

There is a good deal of emphasis on the Gorilla Full Back. It is really a lot of crap. Lake and Scarlett are the two best full backs in the cpmp and neither are gorillas They are a good size, have good leg speed, are physically strong and are good to very good foorballers.

We have brought one similar backman into the club in Josh Gibson.



Then I think you might find there are one or two surprise packets to be revealed in the back half set up. Don't discount Skipper to play a role as a mobile backman who can take the bigger forwards either alone or to provide a double team effort on the likes of Mr J Brown from Brisbane. Gilham will take Fevola as he has done in the past (and successfully).

Number 24 can I ask you a couple of questions, you say that Gibson is a similar player to Lake & Scarlett, but he's a fair bit shorter isn't he, do you still think that he can match up with the big blokes ok on his own despite that height deficiency?

Also is he or Shoenmakers in your opinion the more likely to play the CHB role?

And the point you make in regards to Skipper and the role that he might play against certain bigger forwards.....if he does that, is that not an admission that Gibson isn't big enough (& that Shoenmakers isn't ready).

The reason I ask all this is that the structure of the backline is the thing that has been of most interest to me for next year(basically because I think it's the most inportant aspect for us to have a good year) & I've really wondered what the plan is & you as one of the blokes who spends a bit of time down at training hopefully you can enlighten me.

 

[Mervyn Beasley]

People are overrating Williams in here. On his day he was brilliant no doubt, however most games he was lazy, lacked intensity and had no influence on the result. I have no doubt Clarko is not fussed on losing Williams for these very reasons.

I think Morton may surprise a few this year. Looks in ripping shape and is training the house down. Im not sold on his performance's so far so hopefully he can step it up to put even more pressure on spots in the team.

I will be one of those suprised.
I only get excited by footballers who are already very good that look 'in ripping shape'.
I thought he looked good last year re body shape, but unfortunately this did very little for him on the park.

 

[Rioli magic]

I will be one of those suprised.
I only get excited by footballers who are already very good that look 'in ripping shape'.
I thought he looked good last year re body shape, but unfortunately this did very little for him on the park.

Im hoping he surprises a few. As I said im not sold on his performances so far and I think most supporters aren't either. Im not expecting him to rip games apart but more so push for selection and add pressure on spots, based on training and specific coaching directed at him.
More a response to fears our forwardline lost its arse when Williams left. Along with Dowler, Hooper and potentially Burgoyne im confident we can field a formidable forward 6, tough for opposition to match up on.

To the other responses to my post, I didnt say I wanted to trade William's, unfortunately it was necessary to aquire Burgoyne, he wanted to leave and said himself he was 'stale'. I also didn't say he was a bad player, in fact I said he was brilliant. He is a Hawthorn champ and always will be. I stand by my opinion that in certain games (not every game) he lacked intensity and was lazy, culminating in his final Box Hill performance. If you were happy with that fair enough.