Hostage Situation - Martin Place, Sydney

[Aussie Assault]

There's three gunfights, the first one when the entered, then another one half a minute later, then another one 3 minutes after entry.

Doesn't make much sense for 1 madman.

 

[little graham]

Doesn't make much sense for 1 madman.

Chances are NSW coppers are just crap. What i think i happened with the third gunfight, a copper pumped the dead body full of rounds after they pulled the wounded and dead out.

 

[Ashton Agar]

that's not the full video, this is the full video:

still on the original channels page uncensored the raid starts about 40 seconds in.

some are saying that one of the grenades they tossed in didn't detonate at first, later it went off cops started shooting again when it went off.

either way its why we should have an open inquiry.

Is that what everyone on here was watching live when it happened?

 

[Sydney Bloods]

Is that what everyone on here was watching live when it happened?

yeap. mr "my mothers a pole dancer" himself.

 

[Kappa]

First time I've seen full video of it. How many shots are required to stop one man? And the last round of firing a good 2 mins after the first bunch?

From watching that (and yes I'm an armchair expert) the friendly fire chances are highly probable. Unfortunately for the victims its too late, but they'll learn a lot from that.

Yes, you are an armchair expert.

If you look at the situation, they weren't planning to go into the cafe at the point. They hear on radio that a hostage was just killed which means they suddenly have to rush into the cafe. The barrage of bullets when the Commandos enter is called "Suppressive fire", and is used to pin down the enemy as the Commandos enter through the choke point of the door so he can't stand there shooting at them as they enter, because he is forced to take cover.

The initial barrage is essentially self defence to get all their men inside and in position without being shot themselves, then the round of bullets after that are the killshots.

Saying "the chance of friendly fire is highly probable" is laughably stupid when you have no idea the layout of the cafe, the position of the hostages, the position of the gunman and where the shots were fired.

Chances are NSW coppers are just crap. What i think i happened with the third gunfight, a copper pumped the dead body full of rounds after they pulled the wounded and dead out.

Chances are actually much higher you're an ignorant 12 year old troll looking for attention. Dumb and pointless post

 

[Aussie Assault]

Yes, you are an armchair expert.

If you look at the situation, they weren't planning to go into the cafe at the point. They hear on radio that a hostage was just killed which means they suddenly have to rush into the cafe. The barrage of bullets when the Commandos enter is called "Suppressive fire", and is used to pin down the enemy as the Commandos enter through the choke point of the door so he can't stand there shooting at them as they enter, because he is forced to take cover.

The initial barrage is essentially self defence to get all their men inside and in position without being shot themselves, then the round of bullets after that are the killshots.

Saying "the chance of friendly fire is highly probable" is laughably stupid when you have no idea the layout of the cafe, the position of the hostages, the position of the gunman and where the shots were fired.



Chances are actually much higher you're an ignorant 12 year old troll looking for attention. Dumb and pointless post

And the 2nd and 3rd rounds minutes after entering?

 

[Kappa]

And the 2nd and 3rd rounds minutes after entering?

It's called a shootout

Considering you were there what do you think the elite commandos should of done?

No doubt you know more than them about counter-terrorism and gun fights

 

[Aussie Assault]

It's called a shootout

Considering you were there what do you think the elite commandos should of done?

No doubt you know more than them about counter-terrorism and gun fights

So they entered with their suppressing fire, throwing stun grenades everywhere (including from the outside in over the top of their colleagues already inside), he fired back, then all went quiet for 90 secs where no shots were fired before the shootout then continued, and then quiet again for another 90 secs before finally downing him?

 

[Kappa]

So they entered with their suppressing fire, throwing stun grenades everywhere (including from the outside in over the top of their colleagues already inside), he fired back, then all went quiet for 90 secs where no shots were fired before the shootout then continued, and then quiet again for another 90 secs before finally downing him?

You seem to be suggesting that a break in the shooting is somehow sinister or unusual? During those times the gunman was probably taking cover.

The stun grenades were used exactly as they as designed for, and considering no hostages were killed by the Terrorist after the Commandos went in it's safe to say they were successful. You also insinuate that throwing stun grenades into the cafe when their colleagues were already inside was somehow a mistake, when that's exactly what they practice in training.

An ignorant man desperately looking for a reason to criticize some of the most elite professionals in the world when he has no idea what happened or what should happen

 

[Small Moves]

So they entered with their suppressing fire, throwing stun grenades everywhere (including from the outside in over the top of their colleagues already inside), he fired back, then all went quiet for 90 secs where no shots were fired before the shootout then continued, and then quiet again for another 90 secs before finally downing him?

What are you talking about? You obviously don't know anything about the tactics a TRG/SWAT team would employ in such a scenario. A dynamic entry in this situation posed a significant risk to the officers as they really didn't know what they were heading into (apart from gunfire). The dynamic method should catch the suspect off guard due to the speed, surprise and domination involved with the entry, hence the barrage of flashbangs. It is very dangerous, however it's often that teams are able to neutralise a threat almost immediately after catching the target by surprise. Generally they have no other choice but to enter like this, and the order would have come from a supervisor.





^ not necessarily gone wrong, just an example of what could happen.

I might be thinking unrealistically..

But assuming the cafe would have some sort of security cameras inside, would it have been possible for the police to have 'hacked' the cameras so they could have been viewed through a laptop or the sorts?

No need to 'hack' them - an IP camera system should allow the user to log in externally with some credentials. A local network of cameras or a system that is entirely separate from the network would be almost impossible to access from the outside.

 

[little graham]

We’ve been told in those terrifying seconds that the police stormed into the Lindt cafe, Haron Monis was heard to scream ‘Look what you’ve made me do!’ before the police shot him down,” Reason said

http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/ne...g-many-questions/story-fnl2dlu7-1227161245948

So why was their two gunfights after this, the second 3 minutes after this?

 

[Aussie Assault]

What are you talking about? You obviously don't know anything about the tactics a TRG/SWAT team would employ in such a scenario. A dynamic entry in this situation posed a significant risk to the officers as they really didn't know what they were heading into (apart from gunfire). The dynamic method should catch the suspect off guard due to the speed, surprise and domination involved with the entry, hence the barrage of flashbangs. It is very dangerous, however it's often that teams are able to neutralise a threat almost immediately after catching the target by surprise. Generally they have no other choice but to enter like this, and the order would have come from a supervisor.

Not sure why you've posted those videos as they don't relate to the tactics used in Sydney, and what I was talking about Flashbangs/stun grenades are tossed in before 5 officers enter 1 door of the cafe, but then 30 secs later 2 officers on the street still throw more flash bangs into the same entry. I would have thought this kind of tactic would also stun the officers inside already?

 

[Aussie Assault]

http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/ne...g-many-questions/story-fnl2dlu7-1227161245948

So why was their two gunfights after this, the second 3 minutes after this?

39 secs apparently the footage from inside the ch7 building showed was the time from when officers entered the building until they signalled to paramedics that the threat was neutralised and safe to enter to start treating the injured.

 

[ClarkeM]

39 secs apparently the footage from inside the ch7 building showed was the time from when officers entered the building until they signalled to paramedics that the threat was neutralised and safe to enter to start treating the injured.

Still a crazy thing to watch. Man, I can remember every frame I reckon to when I watched it live on the stream after the #ShieldGuy episode.

PS: Seen my PM yet ?

 

[little graham]

39 secs apparently the footage from inside the ch7 building showed was the time from when officers entered the building until they signalled to paramedics that the threat was neutralised and safe to enter to start treating the injured.

The vids clearly show that between the second and third gunfight, wounded were pulled out onto the street. The period between the second and third was 2 minutes and 20 seconds. (according to the video)

 

[Gibbsy]

Here's a different take on the motivations behind the attack I found while searching through YouTube

 

[sprockets]

Here's a different take on the motivations behind the attack I found while searching through YouTube

Call me racist or whatever but I'm not interested in Jewish opinions on this matter. My message to both sides is fight your war on your own soil.

 

[JackNah_8]

How about the simple fact that being criminal scum doesn't give you permission to start making demands to speak to the leader of the country?

As soon you as you give into demands of terrorists other wanna-be terrorists think they have the power to get what they want too

Exactly, they have no right or permission granted to speak to the President or PM.

 

[Kappa]

Not sure why you've posted those videos as they don't relate to the tactics used in Sydney, and what I was talking about Flashbangs/stun grenades are tossed in before 5 officers enter 1 door of the cafe, but then 30 secs later 2 officers on the street still throw more flash bangs into the same entry. I would have thought this kind of tactic would also stun the officers inside already?

So you just assumed that the police have no idea what they're doing and were stunning their colleagues in a gun fight like amateurs instead of learning the truth?

SAS assaulters become gradually conditioned to the effects of flash-bangs during training. Their equipment also protects them : tinted eye pieces in SF-100 respirators protect against the flash and the respirator itself guards against the effects of the smoke and gas released by the grenades, whilst ear defenders with active microphones protect the trooper's ears from the deafening sound of the grenades while maintaining the ability to hear low level sounds.

 

[Macca19]

Not that i know much about flash bangs, but are we sure they werent some sort of multi-flash stun grenades that have 3-4 bangs per grenade? Considering paramedics had aleeady been in and cops were carrying hostages out, i find it strange they would allow this if the hostage was still alive and a threat. The late bangs didnt seem like gunfire

You can also see the gunman get shot in one of the videos. You see what looks a blood splatter before he seems to fall over

 

[The Passenger]

I might be thinking unrealistically..

But assuming the cafe would have some sort of security cameras inside, would it have been possible for the police to have 'hacked' the cameras so they could have been viewed through a laptop or the sorts?

Not sure if been addressed.

If the security cameras are connected to a network, then that network would be behind some sort of security. I'm sure whoever had access to that network would have happily allowed relevant authorities to "spy" on people inside the cafe.

If the security camera's are not connected to an external network, then no amount of 'hacking' is going to get access to them.

I'm not really sure what the standard set up is for a security system, but I imagine it varies.

 

[dont bowl there]

Not sure if been addressed.

If the security cameras are connected to a network, then that network would be behind some sort of security. I'm sure whoever had access to that network would have happily allowed relevant authorities to "spy" on people inside the cafe.

If the security camera's are not connected to an external network, then no amount of 'hacking' is going to get access to them.

I'm not really sure what the standard set up is for a security system, but I imagine it varies.

I worked security at a major Perth shopping centre for about three odd years, they had a network security cam system that could be accessed remotely by anyone with the right login. However 99% of the stores inside the centre were all internal systems. So much more expensive to have an external IP security system and its really not needed for small stores.

 

[little graham]

Not sure if been addressed.

If the security cameras are connected to a network, then that network would be behind some sort of security. I'm sure whoever had access to that network would have happily allowed relevant authorities to "spy" on people inside the cafe.

If the security camera's are not connected to an external network, then no amount of 'hacking' is going to get access to them.

I'm not really sure what the standard set up is for a security system, but I imagine it varies.

russian hackers started a website allowing anyone to view cams from stores that didn't change the generic password on the equipment.

 

[The Passenger]

russian hackers started a website allowing anyone to view cams from stores that didn't change the generic password on the equipment.

Unfortunately It's quite common in IT usage that the user just uses the factory password for whatever they have bought.

But to access any technology it still needs to be connected to a network, and you need access to that network. Obviously the most common network in use is the internet.

 

[little graham]

Unfortunately It's quite common in IT usage that the user just uses the factory password for whatever they have bought.

But to access any technology it still needs to be connected to a network, and you need access to that network. Obviously the most common network in use is the internet.

Lindts computers wouldn't be connected to the net, would they? being in the financial hub of the country, they wouldn't be able to afford that technology? surely?