Toast How can this Hawthorn side be stopped?

[peetoo]

Thing is we have coverage at BH if we need extra talls in defence. If it genuinely becomes an issue every week we would call for reinforcements and release guys like Weddle for a more freewheeling role. ATM teams haven't been good enough to exploit the defence or we have adjusted how we were playing so it doesn't become a problem. There's a reason were chasing Barass as he is the gorilla who can be there for the long quick kick and thwart the chances of scoring.

In 2008 gf hawks beat one of the best sides ever with half a game from croad, banged up hodge and rookie pick gilham.

Of course the best teams usually win, but the best sides are flagging at the moment

 

[peetoo]

They've beaten 4 of those 6 teams.



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Luck, momentum, lol

 

[NetworkNerd]

No team in the modern era has won the flag after being out of the finals for 5 years. Not one team. Carlton looked like being a chance last year but fell short.

So for me its an absolute no for 2024. By the end of the decade, sure we are a chance. But not this year. Best case scenario for me is a repeat of 2007 where we made a semi final. Give the boys a taste and attract a FA

 

[parsons nose]

Absolutely. Would bet the house the Hawks don't get near it this season. Your list is miles off Sydney, Brisbane, WBD, Carlton, Freo, GWS etc for talent. Well coached and riding a wave of momentum atm, will get found out in finals if they make it.

You’re not the only brainiac that barracks for Carlton you know.

 

[WalshistheGOAT]

You’re not the only brainiac that barracks for Carlton you know.
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What does this have to do with me? I've enjoyed watching the Hawks over the last couple of years under Mitchell but your list is quite a way off being a contender. Fans who think otherwise are living in a bit of a fantasy land IMO, they simply don't have the levels of talent that the top teams do.

 

[Morro]

As a non Hawks supporter, I am loving the way Mitchell is embracing this cocky group of up starts and letting them be themselves. Its bloody awesome to watch and is a massive part in their premature arrival as a very good side.

 

[HeHateMe]

What does this have to do with me? I've enjoyed watching the Hawks over the last couple of years under Mitchell but your list is quite a way off being a contender. Fans who think otherwise are living in a bit of a fantasy land IMO, they simply don't have the levels of talent that the top teams do.

You have to look at this from a Hawthorn fans perspective as well. What your saying is almost word for word what we have been hearing for the past number of seasons but the goal posts have moved. Now it's regarding the absolute top end of the ladder which is a credit to the group. Different posters yes and different context but same message.

On the contrary to that our team has surpassed pretty much all of our expectations. They have been telling us that the won't put a ceiling on where they could go in 2024, it's hardly unreasonable for us supporters to sit back and watch. It's all gravy at this point.

 

[WalshistheGOAT]

You have to look at this from a Hawthorn fans perspective as well. What your saying is almost word for word what we have been hearing for the past number of seasons but the goal posts have moved. Now it's regarding the absolute top end of the ladder which is a credit to the group. Different posters yes and different context but same message.

On the contrary to that our team has surpassed pretty much all of our expectations. They have been telling us that the won't put a ceiling on where they could go in 2024, it's hardly unreasonable for us supporters to sit back and watch. It's all gravy at this point.

Im sure as a Hawks fans 2024 has been great for many reasons, they've been playing exciting footy and have a great buzz around the place ATM. I've only pushed back at suggestions that they're a chance for the flag, if you come across Sydney, Brisbane, Carlton, GWS, WBD, Freo etc in finals at full strength I think the list holes of the Hawks list would be exposed badly.

 

[HeHateMe]

Im sure as a Hawks fans 2024 has been great for many reasons, they've been playing exciting footy and have a great buzz around the place ATM. I've only pushed back at suggestions that they're a chance for the flag, if you come across Sydney, Brisbane, Carlton, GWS, WBD, Freo etc in finals at full strength I think the list holes of the Hawks list would be exposed badly.

Yeah I'm just pointing out those were the point made as to a reason why hawks were no chance at finals start or year.

 

[H00t]

What does this have to do with me? I've enjoyed watching the Hawks over the last couple of years under Mitchell but your list is quite a way off being a contender. Fans who think otherwise are living in a bit of a fantasy land IMO, they simply don't have the levels of talent that the top teams do.

Our top 6 aren’t quite to the level of the top teams. Our bottom 6-10 players though would be well ahead though.

We are getting a much more even contribution from everyone on the field rather than relying on 5-6 players to do it all each week.

 

[peetoo]

Looking at Carlton’s sorry injury list I can see the fascination with us

 

[eldorado]

Your list is miles off Sydney, Brisbane, WBD, Carlton, Freo, GWS etc for talent.

This is just repeated as a mantra without thought by many.

How did we supposedly end up with such a talentless list with equal access to the draft and a salary cap, yet all the other sides with similar access ended up with such obviously superior 'talent' ?

It's a throwback to when we were playing poorly. "Therefore, the players are no good" When they start playing well, rather than reappraise..."well, it must be the coaching!"

Sam Mitchell may as well just load up on Eastern Football League players if inferior players can defeat AFL level 'talent'-laden teams just by coaching alone

It's a pointless game to compare player against player for 'talent'...

As a general rule, in an equalised league, the talent pool per club will be, per se, roughly equal. It is the way they perform as a 'system' which determines performance.

 

[Blackhawk42]

The argument about not having a list as strong as the top 6 teams in the competition doesn't fully sit right with me.

1. The Hawks have beaten 4 of the 6, and not played Carlton yet.

And 2nd, I'd actually rate the bottom 6 of our best 23 higher than most of those sides, with current form indicator of that.
Sam Mitchell is getting everything out of them, and we're seeing an even contribution across the board.

Carlton, as an example, would probably have 5 first picked players before any Hawthorn player (Walsh, Cripps, McKay, Curnow, Weitering), but on team balance you could argue the next 9-10 would all be Hawks players. Sicily, Day, Newcombe, Meek, Scrimshaw, MacDonald, Weddle, Amon, Impey and Moore.

So on team balance and exposed form, is the current list and it's form as of round 21 2024 that far behind?

 

[DogDaySonny]

This is just repeated as a mantra without thought by many.

How did we supposedly end up with such a talentless list with equal access to the draft and a salary cap, yet all the other sides with similar access ended up with such obviously superior 'talent' ?

It's a throwback to when we were playing poorly. "Therefore, the players are no good" When they start playing well, rather than reappraise..."well, it must be the coaching!"

Sam Mitchell may as well just load up on Eastern Football League players if inferior players can defeat AFL level 'talent'-laden teams just by coaching alone

It's a pointless game to compare player against player for 'talent'...

As a general rule, in an equalised league, the talent pool per club will be, per se, roughly equal. It is the way they perform as a 'system' which determines performance.

That's exactly what someone who backs a no-talent side would say.

 

[parsons nose]

The argument about not having a list as strong as the top 6 teams in the competition doesn't fully sit right with me.

1. The Hawks have beaten 4 of the 6, and not played Carlton yet.

And 2nd, I'd actually rate the bottom 6 of our best 23 higher than most of those sides, with current form indicator of that.
Sam Mitchell is getting everything out of them, and we're seeing an even contribution across the board.

Carlton, as an example, would probably have 5 first picked players before any Hawthorn player (Walsh, Cripps, McKay, Curnow, Weitering), but on team balance you could argue the next 10 would all be Hawks players. Sicily, Day, Newcombe, Meek, Scrimshaw, MacDonald, Weddle, Amon, Impey, Worpel or Nash.

So on team balance and exposed form, is the current list and it's form as of round 21 2024 that far behind?

Walsh ahead of any Hawthorn player? You’re having a laugh, the guy is a monumental butcher of the ball with a bad back. He wouldn’t get a run in our first rotation midfield. And Sicily has Weitering covered every day of the week. Cripps and Curnow are the two players propping them up at the moment, if one of them were to go down, the rest would follow like a house of cards.

 

[Blackhawk42]

Walsh ahead of any Hawthorn player? You’re having a laugh, the guy is a monumental butcher of the ball with a bad back. He wouldn’t get a run in our first rotation midfield. And Sicily has Weitering covered every day of the week. Cripps and Curnow are the two players propping them up at the moment, if one of them were to go down, the rest would follow like a house of cards.

I taking as much bias out of it as possible, and viewing it from the lens of a neutral supporter.

I don't rate Walsh's kicking either, but I still believe the majority of opposition supporters would select him before any of our mids. In 12 months time that could change as Will Day develops however.

 

[WalshistheGOAT]

The argument about not having a list as strong as the top 6 teams in the competition doesn't fully sit right with me.

1. The Hawks have beaten 4 of the 6, and not played Carlton yet.

And 2nd, I'd actually rate the bottom 6 of our best 23 higher than most of those sides, with current form indicator of that.
Sam Mitchell is getting everything out of them, and we're seeing an even contribution across the board.

Carlton, as an example, would probably have 5 first picked players before any Hawthorn player (Walsh, Cripps, McKay, Curnow, Weitering), but on team balance you could argue the next 10 would all be Hawks players. Sicily, Day, Newcombe, Meek, Scrimshaw, MacDonald, Weddle, Amon, Impey, Worpel or Nash.

So on team balance and exposed form, is the current list and it's form as of round 21 2024 that far behind?

Saad, Acres, Newman, McGovern, Dekoning and Williams and Cerra must play table tennis or something?

 

[Franko Armani]

Don’t know who will be able to stop our plethora of smalls. Geelong got us, but the reasons why were obvious. We will get Geelong next time & it looks likely we will meet them week 1.

Woohoo

 

[Blackhawk42]

Saad, Acres, Newman, McGovern, Dekoning and Williams and Cerra must play table tennis or something?

Happily put that group of Hawks up against that group of Blues.

De Koning probably a tough match up for Meek admittedly.

Comfortable with Impey and Scrimshaw over Newman and McGovern.

Macdonald over Williams. I love Zilliams, but his body isn't trustworthy enough and Macdonald is starting to have a major impact.

Pretty content with Amon against Acres for comparisons sake.

Also happy to run with Weddle over Saad due to his versatility.

 

[theiaofseed]

Im sure as a Hawks fans 2024 has been great for many reasons, they've been playing exciting footy and have a great buzz around the place ATM. I've only pushed back at suggestions that they're a chance for the flag, if you come across Sydney, Brisbane, Carlton, GWS, WBD, Freo etc in finals at full strength I think the list holes of the Hawks list would be exposed badly.

Would you beat your account that Carlton easily beat Hawthorn in 2 weeks?

 

[WalshistheGOAT]

Would you beat your account Carlton easily beat Hawthorn in 2 weeks?

If the Blues lose to the Hawks in 2 weeks I'll probably just nuke my computer. Would be an all time choke job.

Curnow and McKay should kick about 20 between them vs ur backline as it is.

 

[WalshistheGOAT]

Happily put that group of Hawks up against that group of Blues.

De Koning probably a tough match up for Meek admittedly.

Comfortable with Impey and Scrimshaw over Newman and McGovern.

Macdonald over Williams. I love Zilliams, but his body isn't trustworthy enough and Macdonald is starting to have a major impact.

Pretty content with Amon against Acres for comparisons sake.

Also happy to run with Weddle over Saad due to his versatility.

The Hawthorn bathwater drinking is at all time highs if you really think this.

 

[Blackhawk42]

The Hawthorn bathwater drinking is at all time highs if you really think this.

I forgot Dylan Moore!

So add him too.

Due to the abundance of marquee timeslots they get, I've watched a lot of Carlton games this season.
Even last year I was quite impressed at how far they got with what I considered to be a weaker bottom 6 group than their opposition.
That hasn't necessarily changed this year, but still for a period they were clearly the second best team in it.

The reliance on that core group of 5 elite players can't be understated though.
My main point here is that with an 'inferior list', Hawthorn finds themselves 1 win behind Carlton after 19 rounds. At what point are their lists a little more even?
If we win in 2 weeks?
If we finish higher on the ladder?
An extra year of exposed form?

It's happened rather quickly, but I don't believe the gap is that big.

 

[peetoo]

If the Blues lose to the Hawks in 2 weeks I'll probably just nuke my computer. Would be an all time choke job.

Curnow and McKay should kick about 20 between them vs ur backline as it is.

Except they’ve never actually done that ever, even against losing teams

 

[WalshistheGOAT]

I forgot Dylan Moore!

So add him too.

Due to the abundance of marquee timeslots they get, I've watched a lot of Carlton games this season.
Even last year I was quite impressed at how far they got with what I considered to be a weaker bottom 6 group than their opposition.
That hasn't necessarily changed this year, but still for a period they were clearly the second best team in it.

The reliance on that core group of 5 elite players can't be understated though.
My main point here is that with an 'inferior list', Hawthorn finds themselves 1 win behind Carlton after 19 rounds. At what point are their lists a little more even?
If we win in 2 weeks?
If we finish higher on the ladder?
An extra year of exposed form?

It's happened rather quickly, but I don't believe the gap is that big.

Take any teams top 5 players out of it and they'll struggle. One of the dumbest arguments going around.

How do you think Hawthorn would be going if you took out Day, Moore, Sicily, Newcombe and Worpel?

But to indulge in your ridiculous statement, who are Carltons bottom 6 when they're at full health? Who are Hawthorns bottom 6?