Toast How can this Hawthorn side be stopped?

[Bevoman]

2016 we win if Issy kicks straight and we were arguably the lesser of the 2 teams in that match. Geelong choked away a flag that year IMO. 2011 the level that match was played at for 2 and a half qtrs was every bit as good as the GF that year, we just couldn't sustain it across the 4 qtrs. Both years 2011 and 2016 Geelong were better. 2016 marginally.

The pressure from Port will take some stopping

 

[Crankyhawk]

The one concern I would assume the coaches at Hawthorn have and will gameplan for is that they don't have an ideal run into finals.

A depleted Adelaide
A depleted Carlton
A depleted and checked out Richmond
North
Bye

Might get a shock in the finals when pressure comes.

We did have a tough one (and loss) to giants after the Adelaide game; and the Carlton game they were expected to be a challenge - they lasted maybe a quarter…

 

[toomanysquibs]

I’m glad someone brought this up. It’s not my idea of a good run into the finals either. I’d be wanting some more solid hit outs.

There was a decent hitout against GWS in there that's been forgotten.

We came up 2 points shy of the win, away from home.

Not ideal that Carlton folded and then we have the Tgers and North.

But one week before that we were in a battle with a team many are suggesting is up there with the best.

 

[RCAB]

Hawks are a young side who at the moment lack a plan B, put pressure on them at the stoppages this will stop them spreading which is their main asset.

Incorrect. Mitchell implements different strategies.

 

[Vindicater]

We did have a tough one (and loss) to giants after the Adelaide game; and the Carlton game they were expected to be a challenge - they lasted maybe a quarter…

Got that wrong. I thought the GWS game was before Adelaide.

 

[peetoo]

The one concern I would assume the coaches at Hawthorn have and will gameplan for is that they don't have an ideal run into finals.

A depleted Adelaide
A depleted Carlton
A depleted and checked out Richmond
North
Bye

Might get a shock in the finals when pressure comes.

Line ball with gws twice. Oh and hawks are depleted FF and FB

 

[Delisted]

Line ball with gws twice. Oh and hawks are depleted FF and FB

Would be nice to have our no. 1 key forward playing.

 

[Mr Meow]

Would be nice to have our no. 1 key forward playing.

Yeah I'm shocked the bloke made out of glass isn't available.

70 games in 7 seasons for Mitch Lewis.

 

[Delisted]

Yeah I'm shocked the bloke made out of glass isn't available.

70 games in 7 seasons for Mitch Lewis.

Yup. I wish he was out there.

 

[peetoo]

Massive choke if not premiers 2024.

 

[halfback dasher]

Hawks are a young side who at the moment lack a plan B, put pressure on them at the stoppages this will stop them spreading which is their main asset.

Ummmm incorrect on no plan B

 

[Mojo]

Hawks are a young side who at the moment lack a plan B, put pressure on them at the stoppages this will stop them spreading which is their main asset.

I think if you watch Hawthorn regularly, you'll notice the increasing versatility Sam Mitchell is building within the group.

Josh Weddle - Has played HB, CHB, FB, Wing, Ruck, and has pushed forward to kick goals this season, including 3 last week.

Blake Hardwick & James Sicily - Have periodically played at both ends of the ground this season. Sicily was the match-winner against Fremantle only a few weeks ago.

Dylan Moore, Jack Ginnivan, Connor McDonald - Our Half-Forwards, are required to push up the ground; into defence, as part of their remit.

Massimo D'Ambrosio, Karl Amon, Jarmin Impey, CJ - Cycle between Half-Back and Wing, on a week-to-week basis.

Jai Newcombe & Will Day - Rotate in and out of Centre regularly during games.

Connor Nash - Similar to Weddle, in that he often plays multiple roles each week; the loose tagging role, Ruck, Centre Stoppages and Wing.

Marbior Chol - Pinch-hits in the ruck, and depending on match-ups/opposition, will play Deep Forward, High Forward, and similarly pushes up the ground to turn the Opposition Defence around.

Sam Mitchell/Hawthorn consistently move the magnets around - isn't that the definition of Game Plan Variation?

 

[PhatBoy]

I think it's fair to say Hawks fans wld comfortably choose 08 GF and 13 prelim wins over the 11 H&A consecutive losses and 2011 and 2016 qualifying finals. Dont get me wrong every.single.one of those losses was like a dagger to the heart, but in the grand scheme of things I have no doubt whatsover Hawks came out on top during the whole rivalry of the era, so the 'win when it matters' theory def applies. Not to take anything away from Geel, however, as 2007-11 is right up there as one of the greatest sides of all time.

08 in the difference. 2013 I can take or leave as you were the best side in the comp anyway - the ‘win when it matters’ theory can’t really be put to the test if a team wins when they should win, if that makes sense. We were still an excellent side make no mistake and that was shown by how close we got to beating you, but you should have won the comp the year before and you were about to win 3 of them. So you didn’t win that prelim ‘because it mattered’ as far as I’m concerned, you won because you were the better time.

The only game that can be used as an example of ‘we win when it matters’ is 2008. Unfortunately for us no matter how much we might feel like a one-off game might be simply an outlier, until we reverse it that’s what we are stuck with

 

[RCAB]

The only game that can be used as an example of ‘we win when it matters’ is 2008. Unfortunately for us no matter how much we might feel like a one-off game might be simply an outlier, until we reverse it that’s what we are stuck with

You'll never be able to reverse 08.

 

[PhatBoy]

You'll never be able to reverse 08.

Of course but squaring the ledger I mean.

 

[Bedi]

08 in the difference. 2013 I can take or leave as you were the best side in the comp anyway - the ‘win when it matters’ theory can’t really be put to the test if a team wins when they should win, if that makes sense. We were still an excellent side make no mistake and that was shown by how close we got to beating you, but you should have won the comp the year before and you were about to win 3 of them. So you didn’t win that prelim ‘because it mattered’ as far as I’m concerned, you won because you were the better time.

The only game that can be used as an example of ‘we win when it matters’ is 2008. Unfortunately for us no matter how much we might feel like a one-off game might be simply an outlier, until we reverse it that’s what we are stuck with

You obviously beat us earlier in the year, and being 20 points down at 3/4 time it didn't feel that way (even if there were a few shocking umpire calls). And if Travis Varco nailed that chance there's every chance you would've won the next week. So of all the games we played in that era – those were the two you didn't want to lose.

 

[PhatBoy]

You obviously beat us earlier in the year, and being 20 points down at 3/4 time it didn't feel that way (even if there were a few shocking umpire calls). And if Travis Varco nailed that chance there's every chance you would've won the next week. So of all the games we played in that era – those were the two you didn't want to lose.

Oh definitely, but if we won that prelim that would have been a case of the curse or whatever you want to call it working to help the (slightly) inferior team win when it mattered

 

[Bedi]

Oh definitely, but if we won that prelim that would have been a case of the curse or whatever you want to call it working to help the (slightly) inferior team win when it mattered

The fact both clubs have won 4 flags apiece in the past 15 years, regardless of any rivalries or narratives we want to spin, i think we can agree we've both been pretty blessed to have witnessed golden eras each for our clubs.

 

[PerthBoy86]

The one concern I would assume the coaches at Hawthorn have and will gameplan for is that they don't have an ideal run into finals.

A depleted Adelaide
A depleted Carlton
A depleted and checked out Richmond
North
Bye

Might get a shock in the finals when pressure comes.

The pre-finals bye will probably interrupt the momentum of most sides anyway.

Sam Mitchell is a hardened campaigner who played in 4 premierships and many finals, and was involved in the 2018 Eagles campaign. I think he'll know what needs to be done.

 

[Fastback]

Yeah I'm shocked the bloke made out of glass isn't available.

70 games in 7 seasons for Mitch Lewis.

He

The pre-finals bye will probably interrupt the momentum of most sides anyway.

Sam Mitchell is a hardened campaigner who played in 4 premierships and many finals, and was involved in the 2018 Eagles campaign. I think he'll know what needs to be done.

Yep, been neck deep in 6 GFs... reasonable exposure.

 

[Kanga Commando]

Of course but squaring the ledger I mean.

‘89 and ‘08 ?

 

[PhatBoy]

‘89 and ‘08 ?

‘63?

I was talking about winning a grand final or preliminary final where we are expected to lose, at any rate. In 89 you were the reigning premier and had dominated football for the best part of a decade. We finished three wins behind you and hadn’t played a final since 1981.

 

[Kanga Commando]

‘63?

I was talking about winning a grand final or preliminary final where we are expected to lose, at any rate. In 89 you were the reigning premier and had dominated football for the best part of a decade. We finished three wins behind you and hadn’t played a final since 1989.

Ok - so just one year in particular is living rent free in your head

 

[PhatBoy]

Ok - so just one year in particular is living rent free in your head

Have you read anything I’ve written? Or were you just desperate to use that stupid phrase?

I actually had a normal conversation with normal people about the idea that the ‘we win when it matters’ can’t really be tested by games where you’re theoretically supposed to win anyway.


It’s like saying a golfer always chokes in the last round and then saying ‘see look at what happened here’ and pointing to a fourth round where he wasn’t leading as an example.

As such, as I said, we would need to find a win against Hawthorn in a prelim or a GF where they are favourites and we are underdogs for that notion to be dispelled because realistically 89 and 13 were games where we were the inferior side anyway.
The result of 08 doesn’t live anywhere in my head rent free or otherwise. It’s a game of football. Of course I wish we won. Fortunately a year later we beat a side who finished well clear of us on the ladder and did the same in 2011 so I can’t complain.

 

[Hawkk]

Have you read anything I’ve written? Or were you just desperate to use that stupid phrase?

I actually had a normal conversation with normal people about the idea that the ‘we win when it matters’ can’t really be tested by games where you’re theoretically supposed to win anyway.


It’s like saying a golfer always chokes in the last round and then saying ‘see look at what happened here’ and pointing to a fourth round where he wasn’t leading as an example.

As such, as I said, we would need to find a win against Hawthorn in a prelim or a GF where they are favourites and we are underdogs for that notion to be dispelled because realistically 89 and 13 were games where we were the inferior side anyway.
The result of 08 doesn’t live anywhere in my head rent free or otherwise. It’s a game of football. Of course I wish we won. Fortunately a year later we beat a side who finished well clear of us on the ladder and did the same in 2011 so I can’t complain.

Basically same as Swans 2012 for Hawthorn, you probably don't have 2009 and 2011 without 2008 (or 2013, 2014 and 2015 without 2012)