Toast How can this Melbourne side be stopped?

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danster168 said:
I don't care too much for depth because there is no team that can cover the superstars of the game. Richmond can't cover Dusty, Riewoldt. Dogs can't cover Bont, Naughton.Carlton can't cover Walsh, Cripps, Mckay. You get the point.
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I’m still a bit confused.

A Bulldogs supporter trotted out the old “Melbourne had no injuries, let’s see if they have depth” line which is how their board is consoling themselves that somehow - without doing anything to improve their list for 2022 - the Bulldogs can go past Melbourne.

I pointed out Melbourne had plenty of injuries and were able to cover them just fine, hence the depth was tested and was good - for the injuries the team got and when they got them.

I also pointed out the cream players didn’t get injured though, and that’s what was lucky.

If Lever got injured it would’ve been trouble, but that’s because Lever is the best at what he does in the league and not replaceable. The obvious best replacement (Hore, who is a shorter, less talented Lever style player) was injured, as was Tomlinson and Joel Smith. The backline depth was absolutely tested by injury, but the lucky bit is the best player in the depth chart was the one who didn’t get injured.

You’ve basically agreed in a round about way, I think…
 
Lampers said:
I’m still a bit confused.

A Bulldogs supporter trotted out the old “Melbourne had no injuries, let’s see if they have depth” line which is how their board is consoling themselves that somehow - without doing anything to improve their list for 2022 - the Bulldogs can go past Melbourne.

I pointed out Melbourne had plenty of injuries and were able to cover them just fine, hence the depth was tested and was good - for the injuries the team got and when they got them.

I also pointed out the cream players didn’t get injured though, and that’s what was lucky.

If Lever got injured it would’ve been trouble, but that’s because Lever is the best at what he does in the league and not replaceable. The obvious best replacement (Hore, who is a shorter, less talented Lever style player) was injured, as was Tomlinson and Joel Smith. The backline depth was absolutely tested by injury, but the lucky bit is the best player in the depth chart was the one who didn’t get injured.

You’ve basically agreed in a round about way, I think…
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When people say 'Melbourne had no injuries', it's implied that people are referring to injuries to your best 10 players and not talking about the fringe players. They're referring to the cream. May, Lever, Oliver, Petracca, Gawn, Langdon, Brayshaw, Fritsch, Salem, Viney, Jackson, Pickett. So out of these 12, only Viney had a serious (ish) injury. Replacing a Hibberd with a Marty Hore is not what people are referring to when talking about injuries.
 

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Melbourne had the greatest run with injuries I've seen in my lifetime (for a Melbourne team).

It's funny how that can happen to good sides/clubs. Richmond seemed to never get injuries in their first few dominant years. The Swans were the same in a flag year.

It's worth celebrating, not defending or trying to alter the narrative.
 
If I didn’t know any better I’d say that being a premiership standard club has a high causal effect on a reduction in injury numbers
 
When I said injury free what exactly I meant is they had a dream run where the amount of injuries compared to other teams in their best 22 was nearly none or were only out for a a couple of weeks usually.
 
It is incredibly gratifying how desperate Dogs fans are to cling to this narrative
 
Ash1337 said:
When I said injury free what exactly I meant is they had a dream run where the amount of injuries compared to other teams in their best 22 was nearly none or were only out for a a couple of weeks usually.
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Even if this was true, which it's arguably not, we still absolutely pummelled the next best team in the grand final missing a best-22 running defender in Hunt, his replacement Smith (meaning Bowey played his seventh game for the season), were missing a key back in Tomlinson to an ACL (who missed most of the year), and had our full back in Steve May play with a 5cm tear in his hamstring.

Who were the Dogs missing aside from Bruce?
 
Toump Ass said:
Even if this was true, which it's arguably not, we still absolutely pummelled the next best team in the grand final missing a best-22 running defender in Hunt, his replacement Smith (meaning Bowey played his seventh game for the season), were missing a key back in Tomlinson to an ACL (who missed most of the year), and had our full back in Steve May play with a 5cm tear in his hamstring.

Who were the Dogs missing aside from Bruce?
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How dare you? Toby McLean is a premiership player, we are no chance when he comes back.
 
Ash1337 said:
When I said injury free what exactly I meant is they had a dream run where the amount of injuries compared to other teams in their best 22 was nearly none or were only out for a a couple of weeks usually.
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See, here we go again. It was not “nearly none“. It was a good run no doubt, and better than the Bulldogs, but let’s check the facts.

If we take the best team to be the Grand Final team and swapping Tomlinson for let’s say Hibberd, and then Bowey and Hunt are still line ball with Hunt playing every game until injured.

Tomlinson missed 18.

Viney missed 8.

Harmes missed 7.

Ben Brown missed 6 through injury/gaining fitness in the VFL before debuting.

Hunt missed 4.

May and McDonald missed 2.

Then Fritsch, Jackson, Salem and Langdon just missed 1, with Petracca, Lever, Spargo, Brayshaw, Gawn, Oliver, Jordon, Rivers, Neal-Bullen, Sparrow, Pickett and Petty not missing any from injury. This paragraph is significant, it’s 16 players who played 23 games or more.

That’s 51 games missed to injury from the best 23. I suspect that’s an extremely low number compared to most other teams.

Same exercise for Bulldogs’ Grand Final team putting in Bruce for Schache.

I had to guess a bit as I’m not across whether players were dropped or injured as well as I know Melbourne, I get a number in the 50s, maybe creeping into the 60s for the Bulldogs.

Bulldogs had 12 players who played 23 games or more.

This whole Melbourne “No injuries” vs. the poor injured Bulldogs narrative is rubbish. Melbourne had a better run for sure, but the gap is not what some are portraying it to be.

Yes Bruce was out for the GF, but if one player makes up 75 points I’d be surprised.

The Bulldogs also had injury crocks Martin and Wood in their team contributing a large portion of their missed games. Nobody in their right mind expects those guys to put a full season together.
 

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Lampers said:
See, here we go again. It was not “nearly none“. It was a good run no doubt, and better than the Bulldogs, but let’s check the facts.

If we take the best team to be the Grand Final team and swapping Tomlinson for let’s say Hibberd, and then Bowey and Hunt are still line ball with Hunt playing every game until injured.

Tomlinson missed 18.

Viney missed 8.

Harmes missed 7.

Ben Brown missed 6 through injury/gaining fitness in the VFL before debuting.

Hunt missed 4.

May and McDonald missed 2.

Then Fritsch, Jackson, Salem and Langdon just missed 1, with Petracca, Lever, Spargo, Brayshaw, Gawn, Oliver, Jordon, Rivers, Neal-Bullen, Sparrow, Pickett and Petty not missing any from injury. This paragraph is significant, it’s 16 players who played 23 games or more.

That’s 51 games missed to injury from the best 23. I suspect that’s an extremely low number compared to most other teams.

Same exercise for Bulldogs’ Grand Final team putting in Bruce for Schache.

I had to guess a bit as I’m not across whether players were dropped or injured as well as I know Melbourne, I get a number in the 50s, maybe creeping into the 60s for the Bulldogs.

Bulldogs had 12 players who played 23 games or more.

This whole Melbourne “No injuries” vs. the poor injured Bulldogs narrative is rubbish. Melbourne had a better run for sure, but the gap is not what some are portraying it to be.

Yes Bruce was out for the GF, but if one player makes up 75 points I’d be surprised.

The Bulldogs also had injury crocks Martin and Wood in their team contributing a large portion of their missed games. Nobody in their right mind expects those guys to put a full season together.
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It’s just not worth engaging people on this one anymore mate. They will never acknowledge their own logically fallacies because that would require accepting a reality they’re not comfortable with.
 
Ash1337 said:
When I said injury free what exactly I meant is they had a dream run where the amount of injuries compared to other teams in their best 22 was nearly none or were only out for a a couple of weeks usually.
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i guess that's why we won by 74.
Come back next year with some more afl gifted father/sons or nga prospects and let us know when you can play 4 quarters of footy :)
 
Trav 20 said:
Melbourne had the greatest run with injuries I've seen in my lifetime (for a Melbourne team).

It's funny how that can happen to good sides/clubs. Richmond seemed to never get injuries in their first few dominant years. The Swans were the same in a flag year.

It's worth celebrating, not defending or trying to alter the narrative.
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We had a pretty good run in 2020 as well if my memory serves which is why it was so frustrating to miss finals. The fitter you are, the less soft tissue injuries you'll get. Collision injuries are luck/bad luck.
 
Ricky Vaughn said:
Nah, I’m right. 3 at most.

Try to act surprised
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Lots would need to go right for that.

Only for two or three games did injury hit hard enough to force use of the last uninjured player on the depth chart.

Mitch Brown against Hawthorn in the first meeting, Joel Smith against Adelaide in the second and he then kept his spot until injured, and both Viney and Harmes missed against North and in came Oskar Baker. The depth was tested against three of the poorer teams.

All the players are a year older so it’s only natural there should be more injuries.

The second Geelong game was won with a kick after the siren.

The Essendon game could’ve quite easily been a loss, as could the Sydney game.

The Hawthorn draw also could’ve easily been a loss, although it and the first Adelaide game could’ve also easily been wins.

It’s almost certain through the period where Melbourne were mediocre and went 2-3 with a draw and the bye thrown in that they were doing something with training loads in an effort to peak during the finals. You’d expect they will try that again and be more vulnerable at that time.

I can’t see them going 19-3.
 
Gysberts2Bate said:
It’s just not worth engaging people on this one anymore mate. They will never acknowledge their own logically fallacies because that would require accepting a reality they’re not comfortable with.
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Mate, you need to just admit that you're wrong. That's the first step. You're whole idea is based on the very simple formula of games missed. Comparing guys like Weideman, Hore, Tomlinson etc. to far better players like Josh Bruce, Treloar, Dunkley, Alex Keath etc. is laughable.
 
danster168 said:
Mate, you need to just admit that you're wrong. That's the first step. You're whole idea is based on the very simple formula of games missed. Comparing guys like Weideman, Hore, Tomlinson etc. to far better players like Josh Bruce, Treloar, Dunkley, Alex Keath etc. is laughable.
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You’re responding to the wrong person.

I showed the aggregated missed games through injury of best 23 players and these were quite similar between Melbourne and the Bulldogs. That didn’t include Hore, or Weideman.

The big driver of the difference being Stef Martin who missed over half of 2020 injured and is 34, and Easton Wood who has managed 18 or more games just five times in 13 seasons and is into his 30s. It’s not bad luck when players like that continue to be injured.

I have no idea why you picked out Keath, he missed only three games, and Tomlinson with the form he was in prior to injury is very comparable.

Viney and a Harmes have roles similar in importance to Treloar and Dunkley as all four are a first choice midfield rotation for their clubs, although Treloar is the classiest of those four comfortably.

Bruce got injured really late in the season and that’s bad luck on timing, but Melbourne had a serious knee injury to its full forward to start the season and it took the best part of a year to overcome from when Brown first hurt it playing with North.

Melbourne did have a fortunate year with injury, but a Bulldogs supporter was pretending it was almost none. It was only marginally better than what the Bulldogs experienced when you look at best 23.

I still don’t understand what you are actually arguing and why.
 

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Toast How can this Melbourne side be stopped?

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