Society/Culture How do we make social media a force for good?

[Frank Bunn]

Why are you guys here if you don't appreciate anonymous free social media usage?

In theory, the anonymity allows you to express what you might be reluctant to discuss with your friends or neighbours, in case they may have quite different views.

In practise, social media policies are restrictive of what can be discussed, including this website.

 

[Engimal v3]

I quite like TikTok compared to other apps. Maybe I'm being naive, but I feel like the content there has normalised living a normal life instead of some bogus social media lifestyle that many portray on apps like Instagram.

 

[kickazz]

"Be Real" is trying to do this somewhat.

From what I gather it is like facebook except:

• posts only shared with a closed group of friends
• no filters etc allowed
• you all get notified at a random time (each day ?) and must post a photo/update of what you are up to at that moment within a few minutes. You cannot post when you choose. Idea being is that you are not curating some artificial 'self'

A step in the right direction perhaps in that it keeps people connected and tries to get rid of some of the bullshit.


I think the other big advantage of this approach is that it limits the time you spend on the app. This means that big money (the root of most evil) can't buy as much, if any, influence in there.

 

[Malifice]

Sov Cit loon, who clearly got cooked by conspiracy/ freedom social media (and is all over said social media sites) parroting the usual shit those sites have told him to believe in, brother and Wife, murders 3 people, forcing the Cops to shoot and kill the three of them.

6 dead.

Social media (and the algorithms that cooked this campaigner) played a healthy role in all of it.

 

[faible]

Sov Cit loon, who clearly got cooked by conspiracy/ freedom social media (and is all over said social media sites) parroting the usual s**t those sites have told him to believe in, brother and Wife, murders 3 people, forcing the Cops to shoot and kill the three of them.

6 dead.

Social media (and the algorithms that cooked this campaigner) played a healthy role in all of it.

Reading the shit he posted and it honestly could be a number of the conspiracy board posters writing the exact same stuff. I’ve even seen them link to that Cairns Post conspiracy site before or whatever it’s called.

As much as we laugh at the absurdity of what they post this shows there’s very real dangers from it.

 

[Malifice]

Reading the s**t he posted and it honestly could be a number of the conspiracy board posters writing the exact same stuff. I’ve even seen them link to that Cairns Post conspiracy site before or whatever it’s called.

As much as we laugh at the absurdity of what they post this shows there’s very real dangers from it.

We're seeing repeated mass shootings where the perpetrator was radicalized on 8kun and similar websites. Many of those killers' manifestos contain repeated internet memes, references to other posters and influencers and so on. They post about their atrocities there in those sub forums, and even live stream the attacks there.

The Christchurch killer and others freely admit to being radicalized online. There have been numerous other incels as well that went down the exact same path.

Male incel types, usually socially isolated and lacking social skills, get online, and get utterly cooked by the algorithms pushing them further and further down rabbit holes, making them more socially isolated, and increasing that radicalization.

You can add to the above Qanon/ SovCit bullshit and vaccine misinformation, spread deliberately by 'influencers' and grifters, and Russian Troll Farms, that are then retweeted/ shared/ linked and turned into viral stories, that (when amplified by the algorithms at work in social media sites) have literally cooked hundreds of thousands of people into full blown Sovereign citizens, conspiracy nutters, Qanon flogs and anti-vaxxers.

The shit is ruining hundreds of thousands of lives, of mostly vulnerable people.

A quick visit to this site reveals this phenomenon in action, leading to literally thousands of documented deaths. All of the people on there getting 'red pilled' and then sharing anti-vaxx memes, posting conspiracy shit on social media, and getting cooked by the algorithms.... right up until COVID kills them.

People just dont understand how social media works. It's not like doing research in a library.

This shit is only going to get worse.

 

[Malifice]

Home Affairs Minister Clare O'Neil said while authorities searched for answers, the national security implication of online extremism would have to be examined.

"There will be important questions we will need to consider on how our country deals with acts of violent extremism, but today is not the day," she said.

"Today is a day for grieving."

Qld shooters planned 'to take out' cops

Too little and too late. There will be more attacks by people cooked by Social media, and tens of thousands of more lives ruined.

The Russians and Chinese are acutely aware of the risks of Social media, and have national firewalls (and Troll farms that spread misinformation) for a reason.

We already know the risks of allowing Chinese metadata collection via apps like Tik Tok, and tech companies like Huawei. We're not going far enough.

Of course the counter argument is that those same Countries (China and Russia) also use their firewalls and bans on companies like Facebook etc to spread propaganda and misinformation among their own people, and to monitor them and collect metadata on them.

Any measures we employ to counter the adverse use and effects of Social media and metadata manipulation, needs to be done in such a way that prevents our own Government from doing the same.

 

[Present Not Past]

It's never worked because it was always compromised from the start by it's financial model.
Just bin it and start again. Use hindsight to move forward. Stop protecting the dinosaurs.

 

[Malifice]

We're seeing repeated mass shootings where the perpetrator was radicalized on 8kun and similar websites. Many of those killers' manifestos contain repeated internet memes, references to other posters and influencers and so on. They post about their atrocities there in those sub forums, and even live stream the attacks there.

Nek minute:

In the video uploaded to YouTube, the violent extremists say "devils and demons" came on to their property.

"They came to kill us and we killed them," Gareth says.

Stacey is next to her husband Gareth in the vision and says, "we will see you when we get home".

In another video Gareth says previous welfare checks had been conducted. When asked about Gareth's claims, Queensland police said it would be inappropriate to comment.

The YouTube channel, which has now been deleted, contains many posts referencing COVID conspiracies, anti-vaccination and sovereign citizens.

Extremist views of Gareth, Stacey and Nathaniel Train exposed in YouTube videos from night of police shooting

Taking time out of your massacre, to post about it on your YouTube channel.

These people are getting utterly cooked on social media. We need to do something about it.

 

[kickazz]

These people are getting utterly cooked on social media. We need to do something about it.

I don't quite know what the answer is, but I think a big clue lies in the thread title. I'm a big believer in that Freedom of Speech tenet - the best remedy for bad counsel is good counsel.

Some level of censorship / surveillance is no doubt required, as has always been the case even before social media. But how can we positively spin the power of social media to help people become better at critical thinking and spotting bullshit?

How can we use it to make the vulnerable, disenfranchised people feel like they belong and not seek solace in the cookerverse?

 

[faible]

I don't quite know what the answer is, but I think a big clue lies in the thread title. I'm a big believer in that Freedom of Speech tenet - the best remedy for bad counsel is good counsel.

Some level of censorship / surveillance is no doubt required, as has always been the case even before social media. But how can we positively spin the power of social media to help people become better at critical thinking and spotting bullshit?

How can we use it to make the vulnerable, disenfranchised people feel like they belong and not seek solace in the cookerverse?

The algorithms that send more and more of the same nonsense to people are a big issue. Creates an echo chamber where people with bad views get continually exposed to more and more similarly bad views, without ever really being exposed to alternatives.

 

[Malifice]

I'm a big believer in that Freedom of Speech tenet

As am I, right up to the point it can be proven that exersizing that freedom is causing harm to other people.

We already have laws that ban or prohibit hate speech, threats to kill, misleading or deceptive conduct in Trade or Commerce, misrepresentation, fraud, and defamation (among others).

Is there any argument that the kinds of cooked shit this bloke spewed and was subjected to online (that ultimately cooked him) is anything other than harmfull?

Look at the lives ruined by Qanon, or the anti-vaxx shit, or Sov Sit nonsense. Mainly vulnerable people. Tens of thousands of people in Australia alone.

Look at the rates of unvaccinated people dying from COVID, when a vaccine was freely available to them. Many of those people only refused the vaccine, because of the shit they read on Social Media about 'the WHO and WEF and Bill Gates and 5G' etc. They literally lost their ****ing lives to this shit.

Is that not harm?

If so, then laws prohibiting or otherwise regulating or limiting that kind of harmful misinformation are liberal (as long as they're proportionate to that harm) and in my view, clearly needed.

 

[kickazz]

Geez way to misquote someone.

The thread is asking about how to make it a force for good, I'm genuinely interested in how to do that. Not a rant on censorship (which is needed, but not the topic at hand)


So how, to include my full phrase, do we remedy this bad counsel with good counsel?

Do we create some sort of "spot the bullshit" game online? Gamify the learning of basic fallacies?

Creatively thinking, could we go into RWNJ forums and quote fallacious left wing arguments, as a means to teach them critical thinking? They'd be more receptive to it because it supports their 'team', but perhaps the mechanics of logic and reason may bed themselves in their brains, to hopefully later be used to see that anti vaxx, sov cit etc is all a complete load?

Reading some academic experts on what makes people go this way, a common theme is big events that negatively impact them, along with a poor real life support network.

Perhaps we need to put the social back into social media and use it more to get people together IRL. Have real friends, talk about a variety of topics, get pulled up on your bullshit, build a support network and enjoy life.

 

[kickazz]

Imagine web browsers were like libraries: with big ****en signs saying FICTION and NON FICTION.

 

[Malifice]

Imagine web browsers were like libraries: with big *en signs saying FICTION and NON FICTION.

You're missing the point.

Social media isnt just a source of information and misinformation.

That source is backed up by powerful algorithms that literally convince you one of those things is true. It brainwashes you. Without you even realizing it.

 

[kickazz]

You're missing the point.

Social media isnt just a source of information and misinformation.

That source is backed up by powerful algorithms that literally convince you one of those things is true. It brainwashes you. Without you even realizing it.

The algorithms are more geared to getting you to spend more time on a site, or giving you links you are more likely to click; more than convincing you things are true. That is a big side effect though.

Placing a circuit breaker in the positive feedback loops in those algorithms would be a big help.

 

[Malifice]

The algorithms are more geared to getting you to spend more time on a site, or giving you links you are more likely to click; more than convincing you things are true.

Not at all. Convincing you of things is exactly what they do. Every single social media site is specifically designed to convince you of things.

Social media sites (and tech companies like Apple, Samsung, Huawai, Google etc) actively harvest your metadata, which is then used to create a psychological profile of you. Based on your cookies, search history, search topics, engagement with posts or content, what times you're online, how much you browse and where etc, those platforms then figure out what kind of person you are, and what you're into, what sort of content you prefer, and then that content is then shaped by the algorithms to conform to what the computer thinks you like.

Thats how they make money with ads.

The algorithms are designed to keep you engaged on the site longer by pushing content on you it assumes you like, and also pushing ads on you that it also thinks you like.

It's kind of like a pokie machine that knows your psych profile (Google and Apple for example know your age, gender, political persuasion, medical history, what kind of pr0n you're into, your hobbies, how often you engage with certain sites, how likely you are to travel, or vote, your income, when you do all of those things, what data you like to read, and how you access it, and for how long, when you get out of bed, when you go to bed, your shopping and spending habits etc etc) and is able to tailor its game to your psych profile to keep you engaged on the machine longer, and while you're there it can tailor its buttons to ones it knows you like to push.

Google Cambridge Analytica to see how a malicious actor can use that data (and those algorithms) to literally cook people into believing nearly anything.

Facebook–Cambridge Analytica data scandal - Wikipedia

When people are saying they're 'doing their own research' they're not; their computer is cooking them.

Watch the whole thing, but in particular from 2:02 onwards:



Apps and social media sites are actively designed to keep you on there. With 'tailored content' and 'personalised recommendations'. It's warping people.

 

[kickazz]

So are you saying FB, Insta, etc are actively engaged in pushing particular agendas? Which ones? How do they choose them? Do organisations pay them for this?

TikTok I'd believe that to be the case. The others not so much. They just want to keep you hooked, they don't care how or with what. Just that you waste as much time as possible with them to make them money.

 

[Malifice]

So are you saying FB, Insta, etc are actively engaged in pushing particular agendas?

No, that's not what I'm saying at all.

Did you watch the above video about how the algorithms push people down into rabbit holes and echo chambers and radicalize them?

 

[kickazz]

Nah 25 mins is a bit of a commitment but the topic looks interesting so I'll have to give it a go when I have time.

Is it similar at all to what is discussed in The Social Dilemma?

 

[Malifice]

Nah 25 mins is a bit of a commitment but the topic looks interesting so I'll have to give it a go when I have time.

Is it similar at all to what is discussed in The Social Dilemma?

Just watch the 2 minutes or so, starting at 2:02.

 

[Malifice]

Also, after you do that, re-read my above post in Richie Benaud's voice.