How do we win the Replay Grand Final?

[The Zone]

62 forward entries to 35.

The key to winning next week is converting those entries to dividends.

 

[peter9789]

We must be more effective up forward. We had a heap more inside 50's but were not smart about how we used it going inside 50.

Also we need our A graders to bring there game next week. Dids and Pendles were below their best.

Leon Davis needs to go - not a strong contributor.

 

[Ant85]

Ok, here we go, my take on why/how we can/will win next week.

2. Our dpeth; USE IT. Nick Maxwell said "44 players went to war", and although the war analogy may be a bit of a stretch, it was tough, and this morning, 44 players are hurting. We have Goldsack, Presti (if fit), Medhurst, Lockyer, Anthony, Wood etc etc, use them. We have to make at least 2 changes, if not more.

3. Open up the game; At every chance, play on, no slow play, kick the ball long to even contests (2 on 2, 3 on 3 etc) but at all times move it quickly. In the 3rd quarter yesterday, we slowed our movement down too much.

WE CAN WIN, AND WE SHOULD WIN, but we have to be smart, we have to be ruthless (both in selection and in the game) and we have to use what we have paid for.

GO PIES, I still believe.

Easier said than done, Matty.

I don't think accuracy was our major issue (it is an issue, but not the major issue), it's our forward entries which effect the accuracy ... and MM said that has to be better most of all.

We do usually play on quickly, but St.Kilda did an excellent job in the 2nd half yesterday of clogging up the wings to prevent our run.

They shut us down after the 1st half, and I credit that to Ross Lyon.

They finished better than us yesterday, and they will go into next week with the belief and the knowledge to shut us down. While we're all focusing on individual player performances, MM has a lot of work to do on the strategic side of things.

Where our players really fell short was the midfield. They killed us at the stoppages at crucial times, and when they did, they got on top of us.

Ball wasn't playing 100%, and I'm sure he will be more fit next week.

To summarise, I believe St.Kilda played their best yesterday, and threw everything at us. We have more room for improvement than they do. It's ours to lose.

 

[Dansolo]

Riewoldt is much better in general play than Cloke, Cloke's kicking is inexcusable for an AFL forward being paid as much as he is.

When Cloke was having a shot from 15 m out, I thought he was going to miss and I am pretty sure a massive proportion of Collingwood supporters were worried too, just unacceptable.

So what's Riewoldt's excuse? If Cloke isn't entitled to an excuse for his misses, why is Roo? Isn't Riewoldt supposed to be the greatest thing since sliced bread? Last I heard he was a champion of the game, bigger than Carey? Greatest captain since Mark Messier? Please - OUR Nick played a Captain's game. Roo was serviceable although he did give N Brown a huge confidence boost. Cloke may not run around as much as Roo but he takes contested marks, he runs hard and bashes bodies. I know who I prefer having out there wearing my colours. I'm not saying Roo doesn't deserve our respect as a player - he certainly is a damn good footballer. But if we're going to lambast Cloke and blame him for costing us a premiership, then I'd expect the Saints fans to be doing the same to Roo. Somehow I don't get the feeling they will...

I was pretty lucky to score a ticket for yesterday and I'm hoping to be there next week. From what I saw there really isn't much to panic about. The boys will be good for the run, they'll have a much better idea of what they're up against in terms of finals atmosphere/pressure and they'll come out a little more composed than yesterday. And you can't convince me Swan, Didak and Pendlebury will have two noticeably quiet games in a row. That also goes for Beams, Heath, O'Brien and, well, most of the team. If anything, the pressure is on the Saints. After giving up the lead last year and this year with only minutes to go, they must really be shaken up and carrying a few doubts. At least our boys don't have to wait 12 months and run a season-long gauntlet before they get another crack at the prize

 

[WakeUpPies]

So what's Riewoldt's excuse? If Cloke isn't entitled to an excuse for his misses, why is Roo? Isn't Riewoldt supposed to be the greatest thing since sliced bread? Last I heard he was a champion of the game, bigger than Carey? Greatest captain since Mark Messier? Please - OUR Nick played a Captain's game. Roo was serviceable although he did give N Brown a huge confidence boost. Cloke may not run around as much as Roo but he takes contested marks, he runs hard and bashes bodies. I know who I prefer having out there wearing my colours. I'm not saying Roo doesn't deserve our respect as a player - he certainly is a damn good footballer. But if we're going to lambast Cloke and blame him for costing us a premiership, then I'd expect the Saints fans to be doing the same to Roo. Somehow I don't get the feeling they will...

I was pretty lucky to score a ticket for yesterday and I'm hoping to be there next week. From what I saw there really isn't much to panic about. The boys will be good for the run, they'll have a much better idea of what they're up against in terms of finals atmosphere/pressure and they'll come out a little more composed than yesterday. And you can't convince me Swan, Didak and Pendlebury will have two noticeably quiet games in a row. That also goes for Beams, Heath, O'Brien and, well, most of the team. If anything, the pressure is on the Saints. After giving up the lead last year and this year with only minutes to go, they must really be shaken up and carrying a few doubts. At least our boys don't have to wait 12 months and run a season-long gauntlet before they get another crack at the prize

Please don't compare Cloke to Riewoldt as a player, not even close. No doubt in my mind that if we had Riewoldt and they had Cloke, we would have played a different team in the Grand Final and would have won comfortably.

Riewoldt is not a great kick for goal, but I would bet on him over Cloke any day. The Saints won't be bagging Riewoldt because he set up important pieces of play (including their last score) not to mention the goals that he kicked.

Agree with the second part, the players needed some experience and will be better off next week, opportunity of a lifetime really, it should have been a St, Kilda premiership yesterday and now the boys can redeem themselves in a week.

 

[Visions]

Look inside.

Seriously, especially in the 4th, there were instances where we had 1, 2 and even 3 players running right through the square with only 1 Saints player to cover them. We could have switched to 'attack formation' and spread their defenders or simply bombed right into the goal Square.

It felt like we went back into the shell in the last, albeit defending like champions. Top effort, we just need to re-fire the arrogance.

Agree. I understand that we like playing the boundary but when you have that numerical advantage in the centre, then use it.

Two glaring examples were just after Leons goal in the last, 14 points up. First Thomas streaming through, handballs out wide to Beams who handballs out even wider to Davis in the 50 and the ball runs out of play. There were three players in the middle of the ground against 2 Saint players that either Thomas or Beams could have gone to. Second case a few minutes later, Caff take the mark, plays out wide to Thomas on the wing, who has Blair streaming forward on his own in the centre square, but decided to kick to a Dawes one on one instead. Gwildt mopped up, 10 seconds later Hayes had the ball and kicked the goal.

We blew our opportunities yesterday, hopefully they don't come back to haunt us next week.

 

[didaktic]

it's as simple as:

Dawes needs more than 2 contested marks
cloke needs more than 3 contested marks
we need more than 4 goal assists in total.
we need to beat them in the tackle count.

 

[Dansolo]

Please don't compare Cloke to Riewoldt as a player, not even close. No doubt in my mind that if we had Riewoldt and they had Cloke, we would have played a different team in the Grand Final and would have won comfortably.

Riewoldt is not a great kick for goal, but I would bet on him over Cloke any day. The Saints won't be bagging Riewoldt because he set up important pieces of play (including their last score) not to mention the goals that he kicked.

I'm not trying to make a comparison, I'm trying to make the point that excuses go both ways. We don't tarnish Riewoldt's rep because of the misses but don't give Cloke the same courtesy. Roo set up their last score? Trav kicked ours to put us ahead. Roo ran all over the ground, even taking marks at full back. Trav was making contests forward of centre which is where you want your forwards to be. You make a valid point and, as an individual, I agree he is certainly the better player. But he also took out half his team-mates in the same manner he did in last years grand final so in essence was probably our best defender. Yet Riewoldt is the hero and Cloke is the tit.

 

[greening22]

We must be more effective up forward. We had a heap more inside 50's but were not smart about how we used it going inside 50.

Also we need our A graders to bring there game next week. Dids and Pendles were below their best.

Leon Davis needs to go - not a strong contributor.

Leon Davs to go. Personally I would bring in Paul Medhurst. He could not do any worse that Davis and we know that if he is able to get 3, or 4, or even 5 shots on goal, then he will kick most of them. We need a player who is an efficient converter in the forward line because right noew that is our biggest deficinecy..

I would also bring in Goldsack on the bench and perhaps leave Blair out. If not, I would seriously look at either Toovey or Beams. I do not think either of them have done much in te last few games; especially Beams.

Apart from that I would have a very light week on the trainig track and see if all the investment in the high-altitude training in Arizona over the past few years can now pay dividends.

 

[HeavyPop]

Have a few more shots from 50 out. If the Saints are going to flood back to create stoppages, let Harry, Shaw, Reid etc load up.

 

[haydenboii]

Bring back presti and goldsack for n brown and davis and play goldsack as a defensive role on goddard and push macaffer to play defensive on fisher

 

[Ant85]

Bring back presti and goldsack for n brown and davis and play goldsack as a defensive role on goddard and push macaffer to play defensive on fisher

Huh?

N Brown played well yesterday.

 

[No SPIN]

concentrate on winning the stoppages

Absolutelt correct.
This the only reason they got back into the game - backed themselves to win stoppages resulting from slow build ups.
Take this away and their possesion game is gone and unlike us they have no Plan B because our 'swarm" gets them ( as per 1st QTR), if they try to play-on and move the ball quickly.
Have no doubt we win the stoppage next week - we win the game!!!!

 

[josewales]

Geelong showed in its comeback against the Saints that if you shut down Goddard you go a long way to beating them.

We need to swallow our pride and go defensive on him-a tight tag -maybe the Sack.

Lenny Hayes racking up numbers is understandable but we need to also tighten up on him.

Negate the influence of these two-Tell Browny to repeat the job on the Roo-he should go into next week brimming with confidence-And we will take these suckers.

We were hunted yesterday-We need to turn this around.

 

[bluekarma]

62 forward entries to 35.

The key to winning next week is converting those entries to dividends.

St Kilda base their game out of the backline. Numbers in the back line then run it out. You have to wait for some one to lead up or take long shots at goal which will make them more accountable which then opens up your forward line.
Mick fell right into Lyons hands yesterday by allowing him to have the free man in defence.
They let you bring it into your forward line knowing they had the numbers to get you on the rebound. They changed their game plan in the second half and it worked a treat. They didnt really put that much pressure on you from the back to centre, but got you on the rebound that is how St Kilda play.

Kick it long to the goal square and put the pressure on other wise hold it and wait for a lead make them accoutable. They looked fresher than you did in the last quarter and they where a man short in Gardiner. Now they know what works against you you must change your game plan or its good bye.
That is why they are so hard to score against. They will allways rush a behind at every oppotunity they get, so you must put forward pressure on them and make every oppotunity count.

 

[Privateye]

St Kilda base their game out of the backline. Numbers in the back line then run it out. You have to wait for some one to lead up or take long shots at goal which will make them more accountable which then opens up your forward line.
Mick fell right into Lyons hands yesterday by allowing him to have the free man in defence.
They let you bring it into your forward line knowing they had the numbers to get you on the rebound. They changed their game plan in the second half and it worked a treat. They didnt really put that much pressure on you from the back to centre, but got you on the rebound that is how St Kilda play.

Kick it long to the goal square and put the pressure on other wise hold it and wait for a lead make them accoutable. They looked fresher than you did in the last quarter and they where a man short in Gardiner. Now they know what works against you you must change your game plan or its good bye.
That is why they are so hard to score against. They will allways rush a behind at every oppotunity they get, so you must put forward pressure on them and make every oppotunity count.

Riewoldt was well held by Brown.
Both Goddard and Hayes are so good because they have huge tanks and a great will to win. Come the second half this Saturday, potentially a similar story will unfold - we need them to be shadowed in the 2nd half. Check Q4 last Saturday and you will see how we made it too easy for them, esp seeing we had the ruck advantage. We can still have rotations but part of the rotation can be a defensive role on Hayes especially - this hopefully brings a great player back to good, as was done to Swan.

 

[bluekarma]

Kick it long to the square and make sure this time your small forwards do their job.
That is where you lost the game yesterday. Right idea kicking it long but unfortunetly Davis and Beams and dont know the other small forwards didnt do a good job of it.

It was Carltons smalls that beat St Kilda but Im sry to say the way your small forwards played is it any wonder you didnt win with that amount of ball going in there.
The talls got it to ground but no crumbers to finish it off. They had a few players underdone this week but next week they will be better for it so get your best crumbers in and you can win.

 

[Swooop]

Another facet we need to look at is the rucks.

Half time four goals up, and their one and only ruckman is off the ground.

Their part-timers then got into body holding wrestles with Jolly, negating him, then their third man up gets the tap.

If they play McEvoy next week, they'll try this again...we need to work out the counter.

Our GF inexperience showed...best example Beamsy, maybe also Pendles and Swannie aswell?? they'll be so much better for the run you'd think.

But for the Milne bounce, we should have lost that game.

We had our 'letdown' game after the massive Geelong effort...I think this time we should work through things better, and play to our true abilities.

Tag Goddard with the Sack ( in for Leon) and Bally will go better on Lenny this time

 

[Cousin of Daicos]

The harassment needs to come back into our game.

There was RARELY any pressure on the St.Kilda players with the ball, aside from a 10 minute spurt in the second quarter.

The ZONING was there. So we kept the ball in our half of the ground a lot of the time, but when the St.Kilda players had the ball, they didn't seem to be under pressure, and we didn't see multiple Collingwood jumpers around them.

The SWARM needs to return.

...oh, and we need to hecken kick striaght.

 

[Pies time is NOW]

 

[Swooop]

I think this is a very valid point.

We seemed too tense.

The ideal state is calm mind, yet with intense focus