How many players are locked in to our best 22 for 2011?

[year of the cat]

B Lonergan M.Scarlett Joel Corey
HB C.Enright H.Taylor A.Mackie
C T.Varcoe J.Bartel Kelly
HF T. Hawkins, C.Mooney Byrnes
F Menzel J.Podsiadly S.Johnson
R B.Ottens J.Selwood Chapman

INT T. West, D.Wojcinski C.Ling ,M.Brown

EMG D.Simpson T.Hawkins, Stokes, J.Hunt

Thats a very solid team, a team that can still challenge for a premiership!

That team is far too slow. We would get murdered on the rebound - the three talls up front just doesn't work. You have even put 2 further talls on the bench with Ling as another - how much slower do you want the team to be???

Furthermore Joel Corey is not a back pocket player. His "iffy" kicking disposal gets found out coming out from defence. If Joel is fit in 2011 he needs to be played in the midfield as an inside clearance player.

For me a better team would be:

B: Kelly Scarlett Mackie
HB: Enright Taylor T. Hunt
C: Varcoe Corey Duncan
HF: S Johnson Hawkins Ling
F: Menzel Mooney/Pods Chapman


Foll: Ottens Bartel Selwood


Int: West Wojcinski Byrnes Gillies

1. T.Hunt has to play. Why he was dropped at the end of the year was one of the more dumbfounding moves by Thompson in 2010.

2. The younger guys (i.e. Duncan, Menzel, Gillies, Christensen, Motlop) need to be given good blocks of games at the expense of the likes of Milburn, J.Hunt, Stokes and Lonergan. I reckon this will if anything improve our performances including the young, fresh legs.

3. Two of Hawkins, Pods, Mooney and M.Brown play depending on form.

4. Finally West needs to be given an opportunity. Why keep him on the list if you aren't going to give him a go. If Ottens is cooked then D.Simpson replaces him. Hopefully Vardy can also be given a few games at different times in the season as well.

5. Gillies needs to be groomed to take over from Scarlett. Give him games playing with Scarlett. Will be worth 10 times as many games as playing in the VFL with what he will learn.

 

[Partridge]

B Lonergan M.Scarlett Joel Corey
HB C.Enright H.Taylor A.Mackie
C T.Varcoe J.Bartel Kelly
HF T. Hawkins, C.Mooney Byrnes
F Menzel J.Podsiadly S.Johnson
R B.Ottens J.Selwood Chapman

INT T. West, D.Wojcinski C.Ling ,M.Brown
EMG D.Simpson T.Hawkins, Stokes, J.Hunt

Thats a very solid team, a team that can still challenge for a premiership!

I'm starting to think no-one was paying attention in September.

We got slaughtered by Collingwood - not just beaten, annihilated. One key factor was our lack of pace. So to solve that, we continue to play three key defenders and three key forwards? We won't get near St.Kilda and Collingwood.

Lonergan tries his massive heart out, no question. But he shouldn't take a key defensive role just because it's a great story. He is a pure stopper who creates zero drive, is not a particular effective kick, and his decision making can be woeful under pressure (see fumbled handball against Collingwood in the prelim). The counterargument is "but it frees Scarlett up..."

The truth - bullshit. Scarlett got less of the ball this year than the previous three, and it severely weakened our defensive cohesion to have him wandering on a half back flank instead of full back where he belonged.

On their last game, neither Hawkins nor Pods nor Mooney deserve automatic selection, I'm only praying that Scott has the common sense to realise the game is way, way too quick for three key forwards - especially when none are particularly fast or great defensively. Recipe for disaster.

Quick team off the top of my head:

B: Kelly Scarlett Enright
HB: Mackie Taylor T.Hunt
C: Duncan Bartel Wocjinski
HF: Johnson Pods Ling
F: Chapman Hawkins Byrnes
R: Ottens Selwood Varcoe
I/C: West Menzel Corey Hogan

Not perfect, but a hell of a lot quicker. No spot guaranteed.

 

[-Junior-]

More importantly guys who have been locked in but should be well and truelly under the microscope.

Milburn
J. Hunt
Ling (although being skip reasonable to suggest hes automatic)
Ottens (depth and issue still)
Corey
Mooney

These guys have been great servents and im all for keeping them in the side if their form warrants selection but we are in a great position to mix youth with veterens in there prime being Jimmy, Kell, Boris and Chappy etc..

 

[Pure_Ownage]

Agree totally with Partridge and YOTC.

I think there seems to be a developing consensus (which I agree with) that if we're serious about improving our leg speed, and re-generation for the future, Milburn, Josh Hunt, Lonergan, Mooney and Stokes, as well as Corey, Ling and Ottens (the last three subject to fitness/injury concerns) need to be far from certain starters.

 

[Vdubs]

Agree totally with Partridge and YOTC.

I think there seems to be a developing consensus (which I agree with) that if we're serious about improving our leg speed, and re-generation for the future, Milburn, Josh Hunt, Lonergan, Mooney and Stokes, as well as Corey, Ling and Ottens (the last three subject to fitness/injury concerns) need to be far from certain starters.

Totally agree, but this is old news. Said 5 of those were sus during the finals when it was obvious they were, but we got a false sense of our stocks when we played a depleted Freo. The 2nd Pies game should have been the alarm bells. We were saved from being embarrassed by Saints by the rain again. Our best form and cause for excitement was that young nand speedy team we had against the Dogs, who were also virus affected. T. Hunt , I hope, is well contracted by us.

Really looking forward to seeing a team picked on current form and not reputation and past deeds .

 

[Claude Balls]

Locked in best 22 for round 1...I'm not as hard to please as most.
In no particular order,

Scarlett,
Taylor
Enright,
Lonergan,
Mackie
Varcoe,
Bartell,
Kelly
Chapman,
Mooney,
Johnson,
Hawkins,
Ottens,
Corey,
Selwood
Pods,
Brynes
Milburn
J. Hunt

They are locked in for mine...3 spots up for grabs.

Jesus, that is a crazy. The more you post Brown Tabby, the more I'm convinced you were living in Mongolia for most of the 2010 season.

B Lonergan M.Scarlett Joel Corey
HB C.Enright H.Taylor A.Mackie
C T.Varcoe J.Bartel Kelly
HF T. Hawkins, C.Mooney Byrnes
F Menzel J.Podsiadly S.Johnson
R B.Ottens J.Selwood Chapman

INT T. West, D.Wojcinski C.Ling ,M.Brown

EMG D.Simpson T.Hawkins, Stokes, J.Hunt

Thats a very solid team, a team that can still challenge for a premiership!

As Partridge and YOTC have said already, far too slow. Three cumbersome key-forwards starting on the ground, 5 of the 6 backman are over 190 and you don't even have T. Hunt in the mix...

 

[CatTricks]

Full Back
Enright, Scarlett, Corey
Half Back
Mackie, Taylor, T.Hunt
Centre
Kelly, Bartel, Wojo
Half Forward
Chappy, Pods/Moons, Ling
Full Forward
SJ, Hawk, Menzel
Ruck
Ottens, Selwood, Varcoe
Interchange
West/Simpson, Duncan, Byrnes
Substitute
Stokes

 

[winty]

This would be how my team lines up next year:

B: Gillies Scarlett J.Hunt
HB: Enright Taylor T.Hunt
C: Kelly Corey Varcoe
HF: Milburn/Ling Hawkins Chapman
F: Duncan Podsiadly S.Johnson
Foll: Ottens Bartel Selwood
Int: Mooney/West Hogan Menzel
Sub: Mackie

Back-up players: West/Mooney, Ling/Milburn (whichever of those who don't make the initial side), Lonergan, Blake, Simpson, Stokes, Byrnes, Motlop, Brown, Christensen, Drum. (and they say we have no depth?)

I'd have Mooney as my back-up ruckman in a Leigh Brown role, at least initially. Some of Mooney's best work pre-2007 was as a back up ruckman, and although he is getting on in age, I feel he still could the job in 2010. If he doesn't have the goods anymore, I'd have West as a back-up ruckman.

One move I've been thinking could be good next year is Milburn in the forward line taking over "the Rooke role." He's been able to pinch hit forward in the past, but I think he could reasonably kick about 30 goals next year as a regular forward. Not only that, but when he has his weekly meltdown where he abuses the umpires, it won't cost us a goal if he's in forward 50 when he's doing it. Ling is another one who could do that role too.

I'm unsure which player out of Byrnes and Hogan to play off the bench. I'd probably have Hogan in ahead of Byrnes, simply for the fact he can play more in the midfield than what Byrnes could, and we seem to be a bit short on midfield options in that side.

I put Mackie as the substitute as he is one who can play forward, back, or even on a wing if need be. Therefore, no matter who we replace to have him come on, he'd be able to do a role wherever he was needed.

 

[ninjacat]

I'm starting to think no-one was paying attention in September.

We got slaughtered by Collingwood - not just beaten, annihilated. One key factor was our lack of pace. So to solve that, we continue to play three key defenders and three key forwards? We won't get near St.Kilda and Collingwood.

Lonergan tries his massive heart out, no question. But he shouldn't take a key defensive role just because it's a great story. He is a pure stopper who creates zero drive, is not a particular effective kick, and his decision making can be woeful under pressure (see fumbled handball against Collingwood in the prelim). The counterargument is "but it frees Scarlett up..."

The truth - bullshit. Scarlett got less of the ball this year than the previous three, and it severely weakened our defensive cohesion to have him wandering on a half back flank instead of full back where he belonged.

On their last game, neither Hawkins nor Pods nor Mooney deserve automatic selection, I'm only praying that Scott has the common sense to realise the game is way, way too quick for three key forwards - especially when none are particularly fast or great defensively. Recipe for disaster.

Quick team off the top of my head:

B: Kelly Scarlett Enright
HB: Mackie Taylor T.Hunt
C: Duncan Bartel Wocjinski
HF: Johnson Pods Ling
F: Chapman Hawkins Byrnes
R: Ottens Selwood Varcoe
I/C: West Menzel Corey Hogan

Not perfect, but a hell of a lot quicker. No spot guaranteed.

There is a lot of sense in what you are saying. When Collingwood killed us, a lot of the time it was a smaller guy who just happened to find space in the F50 and take a mark because there was so much pressure on from the rest of their team.

The team needs a solid spine of talls with smaller, more mobile guys. Either Mooney or Pods should play, not both. Hawkins should be presevered with at CHF or FF for 10 weeks and then evaluated. Ling should play defensive forward like Maxy in 2009.

It will be interesting come round 1 because we have a lot of guys in the mix and you never know if someone like Smedts or Mitch Brown might end up playing rd 1 with a good NAB cup showing. I think its time we stopped worrying about slaying sacred cows and let a lot of 2nd tier premiership players slide into the 2s. A new coach will enable that to happen more readily.

 

[Belisarius]

As regards to the team next year now we know the make up our list - and our chance to have good final series - two or three or even four of the following possibilities needs to happen :

1. Lonergan needs to become a good back man - take the bigger opposition forwards that are a bit big for Taylor.

2. Hawkins becomes a dominant forward (or a more dominant forward).

3. THunt becomes a consistent senior player and adds pace to the backline.

4. With regards to the ruck position - Ottens is actually fit and plays a majority of the season OR West OR Simpson becomes a better ruck option.

5. Duncan and /or Menzel makes good progress and become good contributors to the senior side.

6. Gillies or Drum need to step up and become a consistent performer in the seniors.

7. Pods performs even better than his first season and kicks more goals.

8. Varcoe becomes a dominant wingman / mid.

9. The new coach tweaks the game plan and this makes a difference to our performance.

10. Corey's knee comes good and he has a dominant season like he did a few years earlier.



Other possibilities, but less likely, that could help us next season -

1. Motlop replaces Stokes and becomes a more dangerous small forward.

2. Smedts makes an impact in the senior side.

3. Christensen becomes a player for us and adds some grunt to the mid-field.

4. B. Johnson or Brown make significant improvement in their game and add something to the senior side.

5. Hogan becomes a good tagger for us.



*** And finally - we have a good run with injuries.


None of these options are in any particular order.

I will add that the ruck position we have seems the weakest link that I see.

However you would think that 3-4 or 5 of these possibilities could happen.

It will be an interesting year ahead I reckon.

 

[Pure_Ownage]

This would be how my team lines up next year:

B: Gillies Scarlett J.Hunt
HB: Enright Taylor T.Hunt
C: Kelly Corey Varcoe
HF: Milburn/Ling Hawkins Chapman
F: Duncan Podsiadly S.Johnson
Foll: Ottens Bartel Selwood
Int: Mooney/West Hogan Menzel
Sub: Mackie

Back-up players: West/Mooney, Ling/Milburn (whichever of those who don't make the initial side), Lonergan, Blake, Simpson, Stokes, Byrnes, Motlop, Brown, Christensen, Drum. (and they say we have no depth?)

I'd have Mooney as my back-up ruckman in a Leigh Brown role, at least initially. Some of Mooney's best work pre-2007 was as a back up ruckman, and although he is getting on in age, I feel he still could the job in 2010. If he doesn't have the goods anymore, I'd have West as a back-up ruckman.

One move I've been thinking could be good next year is Milburn in the forward line taking over "the Rooke role." He's been able to pinch hit forward in the past, but I think he could reasonably kick about 30 goals next year as a regular forward. Not only that, but when he has his weekly meltdown where he abuses the umpires, it won't cost us a goal if he's in forward 50 when he's doing it. Ling is another one who could do that role too.

I'm unsure which player out of Byrnes and Hogan to play off the bench. I'd probably have Hogan in ahead of Byrnes, simply for the fact he can play more in the midfield than what Byrnes could, and we seem to be a bit short on midfield options in that side.

I put Mackie as the substitute as he is one who can play forward, back, or even on a wing if need be. Therefore, no matter who we replace to have him come on, he'd be able to do a role wherever he was needed.

Good team, although I don't think Mooney can do ruck anymore and West will claim that role.

Dasher forward could work although I think Ling must play the 'rooke role' if he is to continue, as a full time mid he's just not a regular selection if we're honest, but as a forward he might well be able to make a go of it.

I think Hogan needs the bench spot and I think he'll push his way in with a good pre season. It also gives us a secondary option as a tagger if Ling becomes perma forward, because without Ablett we don't really want to have Kelly or Bartel doing tagging jobs.

Mackie is the ideal substitute type but you would think a kick up the pants from 2010 will see him push his way back in more permanently. Given the sub needs to be versatile Duncan and Menz may be up for a fair bit of sub duty, even Smedts if he has a good pre season.

I also think if he is fit you will see Motlop play, probably at the expense of Stokes, because they really rate young Steve.

 

[Belisarius]

I think Geelong does need some more pace and some changes made in the team Winty presented might work to help us in this area.

I still see a role for Wojo - as he has speed and had a very good season for us in 2010.

I think it unlikely, but hope not, that Corey will be able to play full time in the midfield any more.

I think Kelly goes in the middle - or becomes a permanent mid-fielder and Wojo goes on the wing in Winty's team.

Then we have THunt in the back line, Varcoe and Wojo on the wings and Duncan and Menzel (who have reasonable pace) in the forward line.

I am told that Smedts and Guthrie are not slow either - so we may have some good back ups there in a season or two as well.

All this speculation re team selection and a new coach has me salivating for the next season to begin. With my expectations lowered a little from previous seasons - I am just looking forward to GFC improving with the addition of a few new faces and the VFL side getting better - and to provide even more new faces in 2012.

 

[Vdubs]

Winty, your thoughts are noted, but IMHO, WOJO is a major omission. I notice he's not mentioned by you at all, so thinking oversight. Which in itself is a bit of a theme, as I think he is still underrated, still worthy of senior selection, and with Varcoe, the only genuine excitement machine.

 

[Pure_Ownage]

Winty, your thoughts are noted, but IMHO, WOJO is a major omission. I notice he's not mentioned by you at all, so thinking oversight. Which in itself is a bit of a theme, as I think he is still underrated, still worthy of senior selection, and with Varcoe, the only genuine excitement machine.

Wojo's not a lock and never has been, but he's definitely a very very good chance to continue to play every week given his 2010 form and our lack of legspeed.

 

[thejester]

My locks would be: Bartel, Selwood, Kelly, Ling, Enright, Varcoe, Chapman, Taylor and Scarlett. Ottens and Corey look to be past it, Corey in particular had a good game against St Kilda when he shut down Schneider but in general his decision making and disposal are becoming liabilities. Was a champion when he was on the bottom of packs - will he be given more midfield time with Ablett gone? Mackie and Johnson are, I suspect, locks in the mind of the coaching staff but both were well below their best last year. Also realistically Milburn and Mooney would not have been re-signed if the football department did not see a role for them next year and I'd expect them to play most games.


I general I reckon a lot of the thinking in this thread is based around a few ideas that have become a bit of a board consensus and which I either strongly disagree with or which I think don't have convincing evidence behind them. I don't think legspeed is a great issue, that we looked slow against Collingwood because they forced us to turn the ball over, and that simply throwing one fast player in the team doesn't solve the 'problem' anyway. I've never bought into the arguments surrounding 'mobile ruckmen' and any speculation on the effect of the new rules is just that, speculation. Finally I don't see the point of throwing the names of a few kids out there as if they're the saviours. This time last year everyone would have had Djerrkura and Hogan in their teams; now it's Hunt, Menzel and Duncan. Next year it could well be Guthrie, Christensen and Weston.

 

[Pure_Ownage]

My locks would be: Bartel, Selwood, Kelly, Ling, Enright, Varcoe, Chapman, Taylor and Scarlett. Ottens and Corey look to be past it, Corey in particular had a good game against St Kilda when he shut down Schneider but in general his decision making and disposal are becoming liabilities. Was a champion when he was on the bottom of packs - will he be given more midfield time with Ablett gone? Mackie and Johnson are, I suspect, locks in the mind of the coaching staff but both were well below their best last year. Also realistically Milburn and Mooney would not have been re-signed if the football department did not see a role for them next year and I'd expect them to play most games.


I general I reckon a lot of the thinking in this thread is based around a few ideas that have become a bit of a board consensus and which I either strongly disagree with or which I think don't have convincing evidence behind them. I don't think legspeed is a great issue, that we looked slow against Collingwood because they forced us to turn the ball over, and that simply throwing one fast player in the team doesn't solve the 'problem' anyway. I've never bought into the arguments surrounding 'mobile ruckmen' and any speculation on the effect of the new rules is just that, speculation. Finally I don't see the point of throwing the names of a few kids out there as if they're the saviours. This time last year everyone would have had Djerrkura and Hogan in their teams; now it's Hunt, Menzel and Duncan. Next year it could well be Guthrie, Christensen and Weston.

I think we need to keep in mind the current senior coach was not in place when those decisions were made, so with that being so, the assumption is not one I'd be making.

I do agree with some of what you are saying, that one quick player won't be a saviour, ther problem is not purely lack of legspeed, it's also gameplan, it's both.

The mobile ruckman issue you and I will have to disagree on, almost every club and their coaches have spoken in the media over the summer and it's very clear what way clubs will be going with the second ruckman under the new rule, and it's fairly reasonable to extrapolate what it means for West, Blake etc.

I do agree that we shouldn't be too set on which names should come in, there's a long way to go until February and NAB Cup form will determine a lot, that said, the fact that Menzel, Duncan, THunt etc broke into a top 4 team, and clearly did not look out of place, and in fact had better form than some of the guys in the team, should be an indicator.

 

[Gaz_Brownlow]

I'm starting to think no-one was paying attention in September.

We got slaughtered by Collingwood - not just beaten, annihilated. One key factor was our lack of pace. So to solve that, we continue to play three key defenders and three key forwards? We won't get near St.Kilda and Collingwood.

Lonergan tries his massive heart out, no question. But he shouldn't take a key defensive role just because it's a great story. He is a pure stopper who creates zero drive, is not a particular effective kick, and his decision making can be woeful under pressure (see fumbled handball against Collingwood in the prelim). The counterargument is "but it frees Scarlett up..."

The truth - bullshit. Scarlett got less of the ball this year than the previous three, and it severely weakened our defensive cohesion to have him wandering on a half back flank instead of full back where he belonged.

On their last game, neither Hawkins nor Pods nor Mooney deserve automatic selection, I'm only praying that Scott has the common sense to realise the game is way, way too quick for three key forwards - especially when none are particularly fast or great defensively. Recipe for disaster.

Quick team off the top of my head:

B: Kelly Scarlett Enright
HB: Mackie Taylor T.Hunt
C: Duncan Bartel Wocjinski
HF: Johnson Pods Ling
F: Chapman Hawkins Byrnes
R: Ottens Selwood Varcoe
I/C: West Menzel Corey Hogan

Not perfect, but a hell of a lot quicker. No spot guaranteed.

Yep, definitely forgot Taylor Hunt, and would definitely include him in my squad.

However....Hogan? Not based on what i saw last year.

Kelly needs to play Midfield...remember we have no Gary Ablett this year...Kelly is wasted in the back pocket role.

From what i saw last year, and until proven otherwise Cameron Mooney is clearly in our best 22. It maybe the case of dropping him for the development of Tom Hawkins...but Moons' is still the better player of those too. I still think we can play all three....but i guess given that we have looked a bit slow against the pies' a suitable swap would be Mitch Duncan for Hawkins.

Its very hard to find a spot for Ling...but we don't know how much the game is going to slow this year with only 3 interchanges. He still has a great tank, perhaps he could fill a defensive forward post in the vein of Max Rooke....but i'm not sure whose expense that would come at? I like what i saw of Menzel and Duncan....but ultimately we still won a lot of games last year based on our disposal skill and bigger bodies, hard one to call just now.

Hard to leave out Milburn too...he is still a very good player and will still win us games of football.

B Lonergan M.Scarlett T. Hunt
HB C.Enright H.Taylor A.Mackie
C T.Varcoe J.Bartel Kelly
HF M.Duncan / Ling, C.Mooney Byrnes
F Menzel J.Podsiadly S.Johnson
R B.Ottens J.Selwood Chapman

INT T. West, D.Wojcinski J. Corey , M.Brown / Milburn
EMG D.Simpson T.Hawkins, Stokes, J.Hunt, T. Hawkins

 

[you pick one]

I'm starting to think no-one was paying attention in September.

On their last game, neither Hawkins nor Pods nor Mooney deserve automatic selection, I'm only praying that Scott has the common sense to realise the game is way, way too quick for three key forwards - especially when none are particularly fast or great defensively. Recipe for disaster.

Not saying your rite or wrong but I expect the temptation may be there to play three tall forwards,given his experience at Brisbane with Lynch,Brown and Bradshaw.although the three above are a bit off that class.And the game plan would have to change to give it any chance of success.

 

[Belisarius]

Not saying your rite or wrong but I expect the temptation may be there to play three tall forwards,given his experience at Brisbane with Lynch,Brown and Bradshaw.although the three above are a bit off that class.And the game plan would have to change to give it any chance of success.

Always a bit harsh I think to judge a player on just one game. Pods had a pretty good year and to drop him for one or two bad games when he had at least 10 good games - is a bit harsh.

Mooney was ok for the season but certainly not one of his better ones - and Hawkins IMO had an ordinary season.

So basing the call on who should play in the seniors - on the whole season - I think Hawkins has the most to prove, then Mooney then Pods.

You also have to have a better replacement when dropping a player and for this reason I see Mooney playing most of the seniors in the seniors.

 

[meto]

I'm starting to think no-one was paying attention in September.

On their last game, neither Hawkins nor Pods nor Mooney deserve automatic selection, I'm only praying that Scott has the common sense to realise the game is way, way too quick for three key forwards - especially when none are particularly fast or great defensively. Recipe for disaster.

Have you read Hawthorn also plan to run Hale, Franklin and Roughead.
3 talls, like Collingwood.

So you reckon we go short again?????????

I thought Hawkins' season was compomised the minute they came up with that bright idea of turning him into a ruckman, so dumb!

 

[brown tabby]

Jesus, that is a crazy. The more you post Brown Tabby, the more I'm convinced you were living in Mongolia for most of the 2010 season.

Actually Tasmania!

Claude Balls could you please articulate your problem with my posts? Use of rational argument would be appreciated. I have attempted to use it in mine though you obviously disagree.

 

[brown tabby]

Have you read Hawthorn also plan to run Hale, Franklin and Roughead.
3 talls, like Collingwood.

So you reckon we go short again?????????

I thought Hawkins' season was compomised the minute they came up with that bright idea of turning him into a ruckman, so dumb!

AGREE
The 'two smalls only' faction can't explain how Collingwood play THREE TALLS.

I remind you all again...Leigh Brown 194cm & 101kg, James Podsiadly 193cm & 102kg. Similar speed and agility. PLEASE EXPLAIN, because the stats don't lie!

 

[brown tabby]

Always a bit harsh I think to judge a player on just one game. Pods had a pretty good year and to drop him for one or two bad games when he had at least 10 good games - is a bit harsh.

Yes, agree. But that's exactly how Lonergan got his reputation on this forum. Lonergan will be a GUN...just wait for it. He took on the toughest forward plenty of times last year and no one gives him credit...YET!

 

[you pick one]

This thread some how seams to be scrambled.

 

[brown tabby]

Yes, that wasn't your quote...weird.