- Sep 17, 2012
- 1,769
- 2,308
- AFL Club
- Melbourne
- Other Teams
- New York Giants
Today's progress marks that he will be forgotten!!!
Review How will Mark Neeld be Remembered?
- Thread starter Tulip
- Start date
- Tagged users None
Who?
if thats to me... he won both games vs each expansion side in his first year, second year, won vs gws once, that means its higher than 50%
- Banned
- #105
I think Mark Neeld was the type of guy who may be better as an assistant coach. There are some guys who are very good assistants, but don't have enough of the tools to be a successful senior coach. He was strong in a couple of areas, but lacked in others vital to success as a senior coach.
I heard that, at the time Melbourne were looking for a coach in 2012, they approached Mick Malthouse to coach them. He turned down the job, but I wonder if he recommended Neeld to them instead. Maybe Melbourne thought that Neeld would be "Malthouse-lite".
I do think that the media did a real hatchet job on him. It seemed the media hated his guts from day one. I believe it had to do with the press conference where he talked tough, and said how Melbourne were going to be better (what is a coach going to say :"We will suck this year and be near the bottom for many years)? Journos seemed to think he was gruff and mean. They were used to their fireside chats with Neale Daniher, who called them all by name and joked with them, and with mild-mannered Dean Bailey. The media want a pleasant experience when they go to press conferences, and ignore coaching records and support coaches they "like" and go after coaches they hate. So, they went after Neeld, and wanted him sacked when he had been in the job nine weeks. GTFO. Who gets sacked after nine weeks? That's not giving someone a chance.
It is interesting to compare Neeld with Brendan McCartney in 2012. The Bulldogs lost their last 11, yet no calls for McCartney to be sacked, yet they were calling for Neeld to be sacked after losing the first nine games.
Also interesting is the revisionist history on Dean Bailey. He has gone from being a coach who failed to take Melbourne to finals after five years, and coached a team to the second-biggest loss in VFL/AFL history, yet he is now talked about like he is Norm Smith back from the dead. Bailey was a deadset spud of a coach as well, but, because the media liked him, he got away with more. What was Bailey's win-loss coaching record in his first season and a half? Not much better than Neeld's, I imagine. If Neeld has coached as long as Bailey, he might have had a similar overall coaching record as well.
There were players who didn't like Mark Neeld because he was tough on them. Like being nice and kind had been a success. Maybe Neeld went too hard too soon, but everything I have heard about Brent Moloney is that Moloney is a prick of a person, and doesn't like not being pampered. Some players couldn't handle the truth (just ask Jack Nicholson).
It is like a newly-married stepfather, who moves into his new wife's home with her and her kids. He sees the kids acting up, and tries to discipline them, but because they have never been punished adequately before (their real father was more like their friend, and avoided disciplining them), they refuse to listen to the new father discipline them, because they have always got away with it before. Well, many of the players were spoiled brats who had only been coached by "touchy-feely" coaches like Daniher and Bailey, and when someone new tries to enforce discipline, they respond badly. It could have happened to any coach who wanted to enforce a stricter culture. The tail wagged the dog down at Melbourne, and pricks like Moloney ruled the roost.
Also, at least Neeld was bold enough to go after Mitch Clark, and take him from signing with Fremantle, to going to Melbourne instead. Too bad Dean Bailey wasn't as bold by picking Luke Ball in the 2009 draft, despite Ball saying he would only play for Collingwood. Ball would have played for Melbourne, and you would have got an instant leader. But, because Bailey is a soft****, he didn't want to rock the boat, so played it safe instead.
No doubt Neeld was in over his head. But the way his coaching career is belittled, when compared to spuds like Dean Bailey, and even the obvious flaws in Daniher's gameplan (finals one year, near-bottom the next) make it look like Neeld was just another in the long line of failed coaches since your last decent coach (John Northey).
I heard that, at the time Melbourne were looking for a coach in 2012, they approached Mick Malthouse to coach them. He turned down the job, but I wonder if he recommended Neeld to them instead. Maybe Melbourne thought that Neeld would be "Malthouse-lite".
I do think that the media did a real hatchet job on him. It seemed the media hated his guts from day one. I believe it had to do with the press conference where he talked tough, and said how Melbourne were going to be better (what is a coach going to say :"We will suck this year and be near the bottom for many years)? Journos seemed to think he was gruff and mean. They were used to their fireside chats with Neale Daniher, who called them all by name and joked with them, and with mild-mannered Dean Bailey. The media want a pleasant experience when they go to press conferences, and ignore coaching records and support coaches they "like" and go after coaches they hate. So, they went after Neeld, and wanted him sacked when he had been in the job nine weeks. GTFO. Who gets sacked after nine weeks? That's not giving someone a chance.
It is interesting to compare Neeld with Brendan McCartney in 2012. The Bulldogs lost their last 11, yet no calls for McCartney to be sacked, yet they were calling for Neeld to be sacked after losing the first nine games.
Also interesting is the revisionist history on Dean Bailey. He has gone from being a coach who failed to take Melbourne to finals after five years, and coached a team to the second-biggest loss in VFL/AFL history, yet he is now talked about like he is Norm Smith back from the dead. Bailey was a deadset spud of a coach as well, but, because the media liked him, he got away with more. What was Bailey's win-loss coaching record in his first season and a half? Not much better than Neeld's, I imagine. If Neeld has coached as long as Bailey, he might have had a similar overall coaching record as well.
There were players who didn't like Mark Neeld because he was tough on them. Like being nice and kind had been a success. Maybe Neeld went too hard too soon, but everything I have heard about Brent Moloney is that Moloney is a prick of a person, and doesn't like not being pampered. Some players couldn't handle the truth (just ask Jack Nicholson).
It is like a newly-married stepfather, who moves into his new wife's home with her and her kids. He sees the kids acting up, and tries to discipline them, but because they have never been punished adequately before (their real father was more like their friend, and avoided disciplining them), they refuse to listen to the new father discipline them, because they have always got away with it before. Well, many of the players were spoiled brats who had only been coached by "touchy-feely" coaches like Daniher and Bailey, and when someone new tries to enforce discipline, they respond badly. It could have happened to any coach who wanted to enforce a stricter culture. The tail wagged the dog down at Melbourne, and pricks like Moloney ruled the roost.
Also, at least Neeld was bold enough to go after Mitch Clark, and take him from signing with Fremantle, to going to Melbourne instead. Too bad Dean Bailey wasn't as bold by picking Luke Ball in the 2009 draft, despite Ball saying he would only play for Collingwood. Ball would have played for Melbourne, and you would have got an instant leader. But, because Bailey is a soft****, he didn't want to rock the boat, so played it safe instead.
No doubt Neeld was in over his head. But the way his coaching career is belittled, when compared to spuds like Dean Bailey, and even the obvious flaws in Daniher's gameplan (finals one year, near-bottom the next) make it look like Neeld was just another in the long line of failed coaches since your last decent coach (John Northey).
You
You have no idea
You have no idea
thanks for reading it, dont think the person realises we are on big footy, articles are for newspapers
Thought it was a good post. What is wrong with it?
I liked Neelds football philosophy and he sure did change the obvious very quickly
There is no doubt that the majority of the experienced players he got to the club just didn't work out
The eye twitch was an old football injury and was unjustly criticized by many and exploited by the media as though he was a complete oddball
IMO he lost too many players too early in his tenure (Moloney for example)
The Its my way or the highway are applicable to someone like Ross Lyon or Mick Malthouse not a first year coach
He never allowed the players time to have the confidence that he was able to make the team better
Giving the team a clean slate IMO was a mistake as it didn't change anything on the football field
The Misfud/Davey incident was the turning point and he basically never recovered from that
Like Bailey we will never actually get the opportunity to know if he was a good match day coach or not
No point dwelling on the past as we will start talking about Denis Jones coaching ability
Roos has the mantle now and all we as supporters can do is support and hope that the demonstrated ability of Roos can once again transcend on and off the field
There is no doubt that the majority of the experienced players he got to the club just didn't work out
The eye twitch was an old football injury and was unjustly criticized by many and exploited by the media as though he was a complete oddball
IMO he lost too many players too early in his tenure (Moloney for example)
The Its my way or the highway are applicable to someone like Ross Lyon or Mick Malthouse not a first year coach
He never allowed the players time to have the confidence that he was able to make the team better
Giving the team a clean slate IMO was a mistake as it didn't change anything on the football field
The Misfud/Davey incident was the turning point and he basically never recovered from that
Like Bailey we will never actually get the opportunity to know if he was a good match day coach or not
No point dwelling on the past as we will start talking about Denis Jones coaching ability
Roos has the mantle now and all we as supporters can do is support and hope that the demonstrated ability of Roos can once again transcend on and off the field
Dory_77
Premium Platinum
- Apr 2, 2012
- 10,544
- 13,828
- AFL Club
- Melbourne
Neeld was far worse than Bailey. Bailey's first couple of seasons involved him cutting the older types like Neitz, Yze, Robbo, White etc so obviously the team suffered. You could argue that some players were cut too soon, but realistically a lot of those guys weren't offering much when they went and would've had a half season or so of footy left anyways. Bailey also at least had a style of play which managed to be pulled off by the team and was recognisable. A fairly weak gameplan, but it was a plan.
With Neeld it was often difficult to work out what was supposed to be happening. We played down the line more, and had bigger forward targets to bomb it in to, but other than that there was nothing. Let's not forget either that Neeld coached the side to the 148 pt loss to the Bombers this year and the 10 goal dicking at the 'G by GC and countless other humiliating losses. We were about level pegging with WC at half time this year, but lost by 94 pts. If Neeld was at all a decent coach, and all his talk about 'elite standards' and being 'competitive' and how we were constantly training the house down was true, such losses wouldn't become a weekly occurrence. Perhaps Neeld needed more time to fully implement his structures/plans but if they can't show through at least a little bit in a year and a half at the helm you are a spud coach of the highest order.
Also no one is really arguing that Bailey was a good coach. Moreso that in comparison to Neeld he wasn't as bad. I guess it's the old dilemma of carrot vs stick. Bailey was too much carrot, so the players got lazy; Neeld was too much stick, so the players hated him, he came off as a dick and couldn't do what he wanted.
Also worth noting is it's one thing to go in and tell a bunch of blokes some very harsh home truths, but it has to be done constructively. Neeld had to earn the respect of the players first before going in and cutting them all down.
Theseventhhamster
Brownlow Medallist
He didn't have anywhere near the slightest idea what he was doing. He had absolutely nothing but cliches.
Wonaeamirri33
Lovable Whore With A Heart Of Gold
10k Posts
Bay 13: Flog of the Year
Chocolate
Artist
Ruby
- May 10, 2009
- 28,743
- 44,821
- AFL Club
- Melbourne
- Other Teams
- FITZROY, Aylesbury United, St Pauli
Neeld was catastrophically out of his depth, that's for sure. Became horribly obvious by the start of this year. And not just as far as man management, team structures and game planning, of course.
Kept talking about building experience, but... sweet bloody spaghetti monster, by his dismissal, the only midfielders we had who could be remotely described as senior players were Nate Jones and Sylvia.
With the only other mids we had older than 23 being mature-age draftees, and three of those playing regularly in our midfield this season being only 19, all first-years.
Even GW$ didn't have a midfield carrying so many inexperienced players. And obviously that's the main reason why even they beat us in round 19. The big factor in us being massively outclassed by almost everyone else, every week.
We'll never be in a situation like that again. We never should have been. No way we couldn't have done much more to secure experienced performers in our midfield over the last 2 years.
Sorry mate ... it wasn't to you. It was just a sort of general "who?".
The thread was something about a guy named ... was it Mark Neeld? The name rings a bell but honestly, i can't place him.
Sylvia Saint
Cancelled
The media didn't like Neeld because he was an arrogant, saracastic, belittling no-name. Exactly the same manner he demonstrated to the playing group (have this confirmed by one player I know as a family friend, with plenty of hearsay from other fans) The media got the last laugh - because he was a pathetic coach with the most disastrous coaching tenure in the history of the game. By this is in direct response to catman's essay-lengthed opinion and possible troll post.
The darkest hour is just before dawn.
What Neeld was trying to do wasn't that different to what Roos will be trying to do.
Problem is that Neeld had his aspirations and abilities all mixed up.
His drafting, trading and chopping will be his best legacy IMO.
Problem is that Neeld had his aspirations and abilities all mixed up.
His drafting, trading and chopping will be his best legacy IMO.
adamelliott
Debutant
- May 14, 2011
- 103
- 21
- AFL Club
- Melbourne
he was just cannon fodder. I am not sure he realised it
he rose from obscurity and is a good example of the peter principal
he rose from obscurity and is a good example of the peter principal
Cannon82
Cancelled
10k Posts
Melbourne Poster of the Year
Melbourne Demons - Ben Kennedy Player Sponsor 2016
Melbourne Demons - Jeremy Howe Player Sponsor 2015
Melbourne Demons - Dom Barry Sponsor 2014
Melbourne Demons - Jeremy Howe Sponsor 2014
- Oct 26, 2012
- 16,398
- 23,165
- AFL Club
- Melbourne
What? Being a better coach than Mark Neeld doesn't make you Norm Smith. No shrines to Dean Bailey here.
"The Demons are understood to have decided on Neeld earlier this week, hence their surprising lack of interest in former St Kilda coach Ross Lyon before his shock move to Fremantle last night."
http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/a...-to-coach-demons/story-e6frf9jf-1226139072436
Apparently Ross Lyon didn't tell us to eff off... ha!
http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/a...-to-coach-demons/story-e6frf9jf-1226139072436
Apparently Ross Lyon didn't tell us to eff off... ha!
Bluelegs
Digging into the why
No we just were lazy when trying to contact Ross, called the manager once, the manager said he would get back to us. Meanwhile Fremantle headhunted Lyon directly and convinced him to sign up. I have no doubt that if we had PJ at the time we could have managed to get Lyon to coach us.
prob, but id prefer the teacher than the student
Bluelegs
Digging into the why
prob, but id prefer the teacher than the student
Maybe now but if it saved us the last two years I would take ross in a heartbeat.
haha im playing, would have loved ross but if he doesnt get any flags at freo and leaves them in the state saints are now then id rather roos style of keeping his team healthy when he leaves
