Analysis If Dustin Martin wins a 4th Norm Smith medal and premiership will he be regarded as the greatest player of all time?

[STPer18]

It was about time you won one after so many failures under Scott in finals.

Yeah, sucks we've only got the four flags since 2007 to show for our efforts...

 

[Cdog71]

Hardwick thinks he should have won only two.

Good one, fmd

Who told you that your mate who’s an umpire or was it your cousins who play in the AFL or the people you know at Richmond.

School starts on Wednesday you should organise your books sweety.

 

[Gavin Excell]

Richmond were never a realistic chance of winning.

It just goes to show their delusion runs deeper than this thread.

They fell into the 8 and were bundled out week 1

 

[Cdog71]

Yeah, sucks we've only got the four flags since 2007 to show for our efforts...

That’s right for all your home ground advantage, that’s what you’ve got to show for it.
If we win another within the next 8 years we’ll have been more successful in the previous 25 yr period.

 

[Fadge]

If we win another within the next 8 years we’ll have been more successful in the previous 25 yr period.

Just like if Dustie wins another Normie, he'll be

 

[Cdog71]

Just like if Dustie wins another Normie, he'll be

If you say so

 

[STPer18]

That’s right for all your home ground advantage, that’s what you’ve got to show for it.
If we win another within the next 8 years we’ll have been more successful in the previous 25 yr period.

All four won at the Mighty MCG. Funny thing is our bunch of oldies are more of a chance of saluting in the next few years than your mob, but that's fun for next season.

 

[Cdog71]

All four won at the Mighty MCG. Funny thing is our bunch of oldies are more of a chance of saluting in the next few years than your mob, but that's fun for next season.

I’m looking forward to it

 

[caveman72]

You're on the main boardz stick to the topic.

It's a bit late for that now this thread got derailed in the first 20 pages. Since then it's pretty much been my dads better than your dad dick measuring contest

 

[JackOutback]

This is the real nut of it all

Tiger fans hate Geelong because we stole "their" flag.

Echoes of trump

A few seem to think the Eagles’ flag should have been theirs as well. How presumptuous of these teams to get in the way of their six-peat.

 

[Robroy22]

A few seem to think the Eagles’ flag should have been theirs as well. How presumptuous of these teams to get in the way of their six-peat.

Ummm....the Eagles didn't stop Richmond, it was those hopeless old Pies!

 

[Gavin Excell]

A few seem to think the Eagles’ flag should have been theirs as well. How presumptuous of these teams to get in the way of their six-peat.

If we delve deeper into the fragile tiger psyche, the realisation that the industry regards their style as workmanlike and ugly compared to other more highly regarded teams is hard to accept.

The chip on the shoulder inadequacy grows larger each day and manifests itself in threads such as this. Freud would have a field day with Tiger fans

 

[Maxy76!]

No.

He is a great player for sure, but Richmond fans really do like to overrate him. He isn't even the greatest mid of his generation, much less the best player of all time.

Brownlow, 3 flags 3 Norms would suggest otherwise


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[nickcat0]

The short answer is "no".

The slightly longer answer is, he's probably the greatest Finals and Grand Final performer of all-time; a 4th Flag, a 4th Norm Smith, and a 4th Gary Ayres award would just put the icing on the cake and confirm it. However, with the exception of 2017, he hasn't dominated the Home & Away season on a consistent basis (he has only one Jack Dyer medal ouside of 2017). So he is in the conversation for greatest Tiger of all-time (he's definitley in the Top 5), and is probably one of the best 10 players from the last two decades.

 

[Noidnadroj]

If we delve deeper into the fragile tiger psyche, the realisation that the industry regards their style as workmanlike and ugly compared to other more highly regarded teams is hard to accept.

The chip on the shoulder inadequacy grows larger each day and manifests itself in threads such as this. Freud would have a field day with Tiger fans

With the development of team defence and zones, Richmond developed a style before anyone else that unlocked the secret… and won 3 flags. Melbourne and Geelong adopted their style to also win flags.

Chip chip ‘pretty’ possession footy can’t win flags in modern footy as defences are simply too good - we saw this with the Cats for a decade where their style came undone under finals pressure. Fortunately Richmond worked this out before anyone else and have 3 flags as the reward.

Workmanlike and ugly = dynasty


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[Tiger_Of_Old]

Think the AFL should shorten the pre-season.

 

[Noidnadroj]

The funny thing about ‘polls’ is people pretty much vote based on emotion regardless of anything else.

For example … a Herald Sun poll has asked on the back of Djokovic winning his 10th Aussie Open who is tennis’s GOAT… 41% say Federer, 17% say Djoker… then a mix of Nadal, Williams etc…

So despite basically any logical analysis of the actual data, Fed wins this poll easily because most people don’t like Djoker and vote accordingly.

This is not a comment on people not voting Martin as that’s not unreasonable at all, just a comment that any poll has emotion as the major driver of voting.

For example … run of poll of who is the better defender, Rance or Harris Andrews. Rance ‘should’ win in a landslide … but he’s majorly disliked and played for Richmond, so Andrews would probably win.

Or who is the better captain, Cotchin or Cripps … Carlton haven’t made finals and Cotch is a triple flag captain … but he’s disliked so would lose.

Anyway…. just came to mind when I saw the tennis poll….


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[Fadge]

The funny thing about ‘polls’ is people pretty much vote based on emotion regardless of anything else.

For example … a Herald Sun poll has asked on the back of Djokovic winning his 10th Aussie Open who is tennis’s GOAT… 41% say Federer, 17% say Djoker… then a mix of Nadal, Williams etc…

So despite basically any logical analysis of the actual data, Fed wins this poll easily because most people don’t like Djoker and vote accordingly.

This is not a comment on people not voting Martin as that’s not unreasonable at all, just a comment that any poll has emotion as the major driver of voting.

For example … run of poll of who is the better defender, Rance or Harris Andrews. Rance ‘should’ win in a landslide … but he’s majorly disliked and played for Richmond, so Andrews would probably win.

Or who is the better captain, Cotchin or Cripps … Carlton haven’t made finals and Cotch is a triple flag captain … but he’s disliked so would lose.

Anyway…. just came to mind when I saw the tennis poll….

Victim complex alive and well...

Why would 'logical analysis' of tennis data lead to Novak being a clear number 1?

We have Novak and Nadal on 22, with Roger on 20 Majors, but we'd also need to assess number of other titles, head to head records, weeks at number 1, etc. to arrive at a conclusion.

You may have already done this to inform your earlier comment, but if not it would be an interesting exercise.

 

[Footy_Fan2007]

With the development of team defence and zones, Richmond developed a style before anyone else that unlocked the secret… and won 3 flags. Melbourne and Geelong adopted their style to also win flags.

Chip chip ‘pretty’ possession footy can’t win flags in modern footy as defences are simply too good - we saw this with the Cats for a decade where their style came undone under finals pressure. Fortunately Richmond worked this out before anyone else and have 3 flags as the reward.

Workmanlike and ugly = dynasty


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Rubbish. Richmond copied the Dogs frantic pressure style from 2016.

 

[Cdog71]

Rubbish. Richmond copied the Dogs frantic pressure style from 2016.

Maybe there’s something in that but Dogs also swarmed the contest and try and spread with a type handball which the afl ruled as illegal before the following season and the Dogs have never really been the same since.
Pressure is about effort, the handball thing stopped them from playing the way they wanted to.
Like the Stand rule stopped us playing the way we wanted to.

 

[Pred4termined]

No such thing as a GOAT in my opinion. Every player has their strengths and weaknesses.

But in regards to a 4th norm, it’s diminishing returns now since he already has the record. If you rate Norm Smiths Dusty is in GOAT contention already. If you don’t a 4th Norm means f all and you won’t change your mind. This long ass pointless thread is proof.

 

[My Tilly]

The funny thing about ‘polls’ is people pretty much vote based on emotion regardless of anything else.

For example … a Herald Sun poll has asked on the back of Djokovic winning his 10th Aussie Open who is tennis’s GOAT… 41% say Federer, 17% say Djoker… then a mix of Nadal, Williams etc…

So despite basically any logical analysis of the actual data, Fed wins this poll easily because most people don’t like Djoker and vote accordingly.

This is not a comment on people not voting Martin as that’s not unreasonable at all, just a comment that any poll has emotion as the major driver of voting.

For example … run of poll of who is the better defender, Rance or Harris Andrews. Rance ‘should’ win in a landslide … but he’s majorly disliked and played for Richmond, so Andrews would probably win.

Or who is the better captain, Cotchin or Cripps … Carlton haven’t made finals and Cotch is a triple flag captain … but he’s disliked so would lose.

Anyway…. just came to mind when I saw the tennis poll….


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Love how you use the argument "because he plays for Richmond, people won't vote for him". Perhaps people are a bit smarter than what you give them credit for. They vote based on what they saw with their own eyes. They vote on the quality of competition. They see Martin's grand final performances are not blown away like they were when Darren Jarman or Greg Williams dominated on their respective days.

Martin's one his generations best midfielder/forwards but he is so far away from GOAT status it's comical.
If he dominates the competition for the next three years and puts up 'rare' numbers then he may be in the conversation but based on his last two seasons, he's regressing.
Ask anyone who Richmond's best player is and it's not Martin, it's now Shai Bolton.

 

[Aristotle Pickett]

You're right, I haven't, hence is why I wouldn't necessarily have Novak as the clear GOAT.

Happy for you to provide the analysis that supports this if you believe it is clear cut, as I don't believe it's as straightforward as saying Novak's 22 > Rafa's 22 > Roger's 20 > Laver's 2 x Grand Slams.

It's all in the tennis forum.

 

[Fadge]

It's all in the tennis forum.

Thanks. I'll check it out.

 

[Aristotle Pickett]

I'm chill. I see you are getting a little high strung as you tend to revert to calling posters 'mate' or 'champ'.
Just back to the topic of discussion, you must be happy your dribble has seen this thread get to 155 pages?

You do realize it will backfire in a big way don't you. Just as long as you don't begin to call for mods help when it does flip in the next 19 months, all good.

Dunno what you're on about. I was talking tennis with Fadge about tennis, replying to one post ,that wasn't relevent to this thread.
I think you have this thread all wrong. It's a legitimate hypothetical question that invites discussion.
No one is aiming to run down Ablett jnr at all, the thread is about Dustin Martin potentially winning 4 Norm Smiths and where he would rank.