If I was List Manager.............

[9th Placed Finish]

Here is what I would do if I was the list manager at Punt Rd:

Richmond List End of 2009
2. Will Thursfield – KPD
3. Brett Deledio – Midfielder
4. Andrew Raines – Mid Defender
5.
6. Graham Polak – KPD/KPF
7.
8. Jack Reiwoldt – KPF
9. Trent Cotchin – Midfielder
10. Shane Edwards – Small Defender
11.
12.
13. Jordan McMahon – Mid Defender
14. Dean Polo – Mid Defender
15.
16. Luke McGuane – KPD
17. Chris Newman – Small Defender
18. Alex Rance – 3rd Tall Defender
19. Dean Putt – KPF
20 Mitch Morton – Mid Forward
21. Shane Tuck – Midfielder
22.
23. Daniel Jackson – Midfielder
24.
25. Jay Schulz – KPF
26.
27. Tom Hislop – Mid Forward
28.
29. Tyrone Vickery – Ruck/KPF
30.Richard Tambling – Midfielder
31. Adam Thomson – Midfidler
32. Ben Cousins – Midfielder
33. David Gourdis – KPF (rookie)
34.
35. Matthew White – Midfielder
36. Jarrod Silvester – KPD
37. Jayden Post – KPF/KPD
38. Robin Nahas – Small Forward
39. Daniel Connors – Mid Defender
40 Kelvin Moore – 3rd Tall
41. Nathan Foley – midfielder
42. Andrew Collins – Midfielder
43. Andrew Browne – Ruck
44. Angus Graham – Ruck
45.Alroy Gilligan – Small Forward (rookie)
46. Jake King – Small Defender.

List Breakdown:
Key Position Defenders
Thursfield McGuane Post Polak Silvester
Key Position Forwards
Riewoldt Post Vickery Schulz Polak Gourdis Putt
Mid Sized Defenders
Moore Connors Rance Polo Raines
Mid Sized Forwards
Morton Hislop
Small Defenders
Newman King Edwards
Small Forwards
Nahas Gilligan
Midfielders
Deledio Cotchin Cousins Foley Jackson Tambling Collins Tuck White
Rucks
Graham Vickery Browne

Delisted/Retired:
Simmonds Brown Bowden Richo Pettifer JON Coughlan
Pattison Johnson Hughes
Traded:
McMahon to Saints for pick 17 or 33
Elevated:
Nahas Browne Silvester
Retained Rookies:
Gilligan Gourdis
Picks:
4, 17*, 21, 33*, 37, 53, 69, 85 - * depends on pick we got for McMahon.
Needs:
Key Position Forward – Butcher would be a great get, 197cm FF who has shown he can kick bags of goals even when carrying an injury. If we can’t get Trengove then I hope we take this kid will not disappoint. If we do land Trengove then hopefully someone like Griffiths is available with our second round pick.
2 Genuine Midfielders – not flankers who might play there, I’m talking genuine midfielders. Trengove would be the ultimate, but I doubt he will be there. If we were to land the Saints first rounder and took Butcher with our first pick, then I hope that we could land Stevens and Ledin. Both look likely types in my opinion.
Hard Edged Small/Midsized Defender – a bloke with the same attitude as King but with the ball use of Deledio or Cotchin would be great, but probably unrealistic. Would settle for a bloke with Kings attitude and the ability to hit targets.
Ruckman – pretty young group that we have so we need to get in another kid to start developing. Use one of our last 2 picks on this unless there is an absolute standout available earlier.
After addressing these 5 areas use any remaining picks for adding depth. Another small crumbing defensively minded forward would be handy. Wouldn’t mind adding another KPP who can play at either end.

 

[Wacky Tiger]

Is Richo missing for a reason?

 

[mattdwyer]

Adam Pattison wont be delisted, Cleve Hughes will get another chance, JON is hanging by a thread, personally i believe he should get another chance .. but he still might get the chop .. we wont get pick 17 or 33 for McMahon

What is the point of getting rid of Pattison & Hughes
then you say down the bottom that you want to add depth to our list .. by keeping those 2 we will have depth .. bringing in 2 untried kids from a weak draft will not give us depth

 

[coke_zero]

would rather Hughes kept on than Schulz. and i would also think about letting Raines go.

 

[Bojangles17]

would rather Hughes kept on than Schulz. and i would also think about lwtting Raines go.

i have a feeling we might be able to trade sarge with rival clubs seeing him as a key defender, at 24yo he still has currency...Hughes is a chance to be retained, clearly come down to new coaches rating and benchmarked against what is avaialble to replace on the list

 

[Greggy]

would rather Hughes kept on than Schulz. and i would also think about lwtting Raines go.

Hard call on Raines, he clearly hasn't been able to get any consistant footy going. A lot of people see his desire to take tacklers on as a flaw, I see it as a positive area of his game, we need players taking the game on now more than ever.

 

[brjafi]

almost agree with 9th placed!!! only thing is keep hughes, richo and coughlan!!!!
who knows with polak though, i just dont want him to get the wrong knock or accidental knock to the head that could kill him. i wouldn't play him if i was coach for that reason but who knows how his condition really is, ya never know!!!!!!

 

[coke_zero]

i have a feeling we might be able to trade sarge with rival clubs seeing him as a key defender, at 24yo he still has currency...Hughes is a chance to be retained, clearly come down to new coaches rating and benchmarked against what is avaialble to replace on the list

anything we can get for schulz would be a plus as he would likely be delisted. im not sure what to do with Hughes, he has shown he can match it at AFL level, but his attitude could cost him his career.

Hard call on Raines, he clearly hasn't been able to get any consistant footy going. A lot of people see his desire to take tacklers on as a flaw, I see it as a positive area of his game, we need players taking the game on now more than ever.

when he has the ball it would be nice if he ran it straight up the guts or atleast gain ground. but he always goes backwards and then the other team have a chance to zone or man up.

 

[Greggy]

when he has the ball it would be nice if he ran it straight up the guts or atleast gain ground. but he always goes backwards and then the other team have a chance to zone or man up.

I agree he's very frustrating but I think if he can straighten up as you say he will be valuable.

 

[sante]

I think players like Raines/King/McMahon/Hughes will get a chance under the new coach. Surely Schulz will be shopped around, if no trade, then he will be delisted.

 

[richoatthedisco]

Schulz won't be delisted. He has a contract for next year.

 

[TimeFor11]

Seriously if we get pick 17 or 33 for McMahon we should be running around the streets of Melbourne. Such an unrealistic assumption. Maybe Pick 49 or 65 lets be serious. Is Tuck worth Pick 1?

Schulz could be delisted IMO nothing says we cant pay out some contracts and the club has to cut some of its losses.

 

[9th Placed Finish]

Seriously if we get pick 17 or 33 for McMahon we should be running around the streets of Melbourne. Such an unrealistic assumption. Maybe Pick 49 or 65 lets be serious. Is Tuck worth Pick 1?

Schulz could be delisted IMO nothing says we cant pay out some contracts and the club has to cut some of its losses.

Try putting your bias aside.

There is a lot of people who dislike McMahon on here, that doesn't mean that its like that amongst the clubs themselves. The Saints are keen on getting someone like McMahon in as it would allow them to have more freedom with guys like Goddard and Gram. Pick 17 might be a long shot, but if the reports are true the Saints don't see a heap of genuine quality around their first pick so might be tempted to go for an experienced player instead. The second thing that might be in our favour is if we were to say to them we'll pay most of his salary.

Don't be surprised if this is one of the first deals down when trade week rolls around.

 

[coke_zero]

Is Tuck worth Pick 1?

no. and melbourne will not trade pick one because they want Scully and Tuck is to old. maybe a high 2nd rounder. but it also depends what type of players clubs need. and his value would of gone down because of being dropped.

 

[leighroy]

i hope we make good calls this trade week, would love to see tuck shultz hughes raines moore traded for 2nd or 3rd picks

 

[CUBS]

Raines should be kept so that we can offload him to GC at the end of next year.

 

[pawleesee]

would rather Hughes kept on than Schulz. and i would also think about letting Raines go.

keep raines, will be great trade bait for the Gold Coast

 

[Heisenberg_]

Raines should be kept so that we can offload him to GC at the end of next year.

agreed we could really use an extra 4th round pick.
Should trade him this year while he still has a little bit of value

 

[Madtiger2006]

2010

Who would you delist/trade and what would be your team for next year and what improvements can be done to players over the next 6 months?

Delist/trade: Simmonds, Brown, Bowden, Johnson, Oakleigh Nicholls, Schulz, Pettifer, Mcmahon, Tuck, Coughlan

Team(improvements)
FB: Edwards Thursfield(5-7kg bigger) Newman
HB: Polo(3-5kg bigger) Mcguane(5-7kg bigger) Rance
C: Richo Cotchin Tambling
HF: Reiwoldt Post Collins
FF: Nahas Polak Morton
FOLL: Graham Deledio Foley
INT: Jackson Vickery Cousins Trengrove?

I believe Polak can get back to where he was and improve on that. He has the confidence and courage to play this contact sport after 12 months at Coburg. He is still a good age and has the talent. We need the 3rd tall forward and I think Polak can do it, while giving Putt games over the season. Maybe rotate Putt/Polak in and out of the side or Vickery/Putt or Post/Putt depending on form. But as long as we can have 3 tall forwards on the ground and 1 to rotate from the bench then our forward line should function well. The forward line is our unknown area, but I think Polak and Reiwoldt have the experience to hold it together and if we can limit to having one of Post/Putt/Vickery in the forward line more often than not(eg. 1 up forward, 1 on bench or ruck/defence) then we shouldn't be too inexperienced up forward for long patches during games.

If we can lock Thursfield, Mcguane, Polo and Moore in the gym for 6 months, it will add another dimension to our backline. We are getting a fairly tight back 6 and it will only get tighter with further improvement from Polo and Edwards. We need to reduce goals after being outmuscled. Our midfield will benefit from having an extra skillful midfielder in Trengrove possibly. We'll be better off without Tuck, Cogs, Mcmahon etc because of their lack of class and pace. We also have the option of bringing in Connors as a forward, White on the wing, Thomson in the middle, Moore in defence(not a key position though), Patto in the ruck and King and Hislop as forwards/taggers(but try and limit to having 1 of these 2 in the side). Depression is robbing us of a talented forward in Hughes imo, but I think we will have the space on the list to try him for 1 more year.

Looks like we'll have a new coaching department with Hinkley in charge, so lets see a cleanout of old/slow/lazy players and push our young and growing list forward

 

[Madison]

Re: 2010

Who are you peopl who want Tuck delisted?

Have you ever watched a game of AFL in your life?

He was top 3 in the LEAGUE in clearances, hard ball gets and contested ball (can't remember the exact categories but it was something like these three).

He may not be fast but not every player can be an outside runner.

Scott West anyone? Jobe Watson?

Same with Coughlan, we need more players who have his attack on the footy and couragousness. He has spent three years out of the game, the fact he is back in the side is good enough for me. Give him another year at it.

 

[TimeFor11]

Try putting your bias aside.

There is a lot of people who dislike McMahon on here, that doesn't mean that its like that amongst the clubs themselves. The Saints are keen on getting someone like McMahon in as it would allow them to have more freedom with guys like Goddard and Gram. Pick 17 might be a long shot, but if the reports are true the Saints don't see a heap of genuine quality around their first pick so might be tempted to go for an experienced player instead. The second thing that might be in our favour is if we were to say to them we'll pay most of his salary.

Don't be surprised if this is one of the first deals down when trade week rolls around.

My god, Farren Ray was 22 years old McMahon is 26 and had all the oppurtunities in the world. Farran Ray went for a pick in the 30s I think. So I would say asking for pick 49 is reasonable but we wont get 33.

no. and melbourne will not trade pick one because they want Scully and Tuck is to old. maybe a high 2nd rounder. but it also depends what type of players clubs need. and his value would of gone down because of being dropped.

I wasn't being serious about Tuck for pick 1.

 

[its_all_good1243]

I have just completed an interesting review of our lists effective use of the football. The result is a fascinating scenario that clearly shows we could be as good if not better than the best teams if the bottom half of our list improved their disposal efficiency.

Firstly lets look at the 2 teams who most would consider as being the best users of the footy in the AFL, St Kilda and the Bulldogs.

The Saints have 6 players (Baker 84%, Blake 90%, Fisher 81%, Gilbert 80%, Hudghton 91% & Dawson 90%) who have a disposal efficiency above 80%. They have 4 regulars (Ball 69%, Gram 67%, Milne 63% & Riewoldt 66%) who average under 70% efficiency. Therefore the majority of the team's best 30 players hit a target with at least 3 out of 4 attempts.

The Bulldogs have 5 players (Cross 83%, Lake 84%, Morris 89%, Tiller 84% & Williams 82%) who have a disposal efficiency above 80%. They have 4 players (Boyd 69%, Hudson 69%, Murphy 69% & Ward 68%) who average under 70%. The difference between the Dogs best and worst is 14% efficiency or 1.4 disposals out of every 10 missing a target.

Now if you look at the tigers...

From an incredibly positive perspective we have 10 players (Silvester 81%, Connors 86%, Graham 81%, King 81%, McGuane 80%, Moore 83%, Newman 83%, Polo 83%, Thursfield 85% & Vickery 90%) whose disposal efficiency is above 80%. Granted some of these guys absolutely butcher the ball when they do turn it over (see king, polo) and some haven't played many games this season (see connors, silvester) but we still have many players who are capable of consistently hitting targets under the pressure of AFL football.

Conversely this season we have had 9 players, many of whom are considered vitally important who have a disposal efficiency of less than 70%. (Edwards 69%, Cotchin 67%, Jackson 67%, JON 63%, Post 67%, Richo 63%, Riewoldt 59% & Nahas 67%). The difference between our most efficient player and least efficient player is 31% or 3.1 effective disposals. More importantly it is our backline who regularly hit targets and our mids and forwards who continually turn it over.

From a list management perspective we need to look at which players have the capacity to improve their disposal and work religiously on getting it right. Those who cannot fix this problem need to be traded away in return for opposition players who can dispose of the football but are lacking opportunity or for kids who can use it already.

Last year we were contested ball specialists and this year we have not been too bad either but we continually turn the ball over when attacking and it leaves our defenders completely out of postion going the other way. Picking stronger bodies or completely turning over the list may not in fact be the answer. Rather we just need to recruit some genuinely skillful players, work on improving our ball getting players efficiency and getting rid of those who are not capable of hitting targets at pace or under pressure.

Your thoughts...

 

[David3030]

Unfortunately the years we have finished bottom or near bottom recently (2004 and 2007) have co-incided with weak drafts. Our wretched draft luck is going to continue in 2009 as the draft pool is considerably weakened.

No 17 year old is eligible for selection to us, only Gold Coast, who will select the best dozen 17 year olds in the country. Therefore only 18 year olds on 1 January are open for drafting this year. Using the 2008 draft as our guide, there are only around 7 players in this years draft that would have been taken as first round picks in last years draft. The talent pool this year and for the next 3 years at least is shallow, its not a time to be a bottom club and having to rebuild.

Thus we will have to trade, as I am sure our new coach has made the board aware, our biggest problem will be that we may want to trade certain players only to find their trade value is far less than we think. The only certainty this year I think is we pocket pick 3 and make it off limits as we will get a very good player with this pick.

 

[TigerTime88]

I have just completed an interesting review of our lists effective use of the football. The result is a fascinating scenario that clearly shows we could be as good if not better than the best teams if the bottom half of our list improved their disposal efficiency.

Firstly lets look at the 2 teams who most would consider as being the best users of the footy in the AFL, St Kilda and the Bulldogs.

The Saints have 6 players (Baker 84%, Blake 90%, Fisher 81%, Gilbert 80%, Hudghton 91% & Dawson 90%) who have a disposal efficiency above 80%. They have 4 regulars (Ball 69%, Gram 67%, Milne 63% & Riewoldt 66%) who average under 70% efficiency. Therefore the majority of the team's best 30 players hit a target with at least 3 out of 4 attempts.

The Bulldogs have 5 players (Cross 83%, Lake 84%, Morris 89%, Tiller 84% & Williams 82%) who have a disposal efficiency above 80%. They have 4 players (Boyd 69%, Hudson 69%, Murphy 69% & Ward 68%) who average under 70%. The difference between the Dogs best and worst is 14% efficiency or 1.4 disposals out of every 10 missing a target.

Now if you look at the tigers...

From an incredibly positive perspective we have 10 players (Silvester 81%, Connors 86%, Graham 81%, King 81%, McGuane 80%, Moore 83%, Newman 83%, Polo 83%, Thursfield 85% & Vickery 90%) whose disposal efficiency is above 80%. Granted some of these guys absolutely butcher the ball when they do turn it over (see king, polo) and some haven't played many games this season (see connors, silvester) but we still have many players who are capable of consistently hitting targets under the pressure of AFL football.

Conversely this season we have had 9 players, many of whom are considered vitally important who have a disposal efficiency of less than 70%. (Edwards 69%, Cotchin 67%, Jackson 67%, JON 63%, Post 67%, Richo 63%, Riewoldt 59% & Nahas 67%). The difference between our most efficient player and least efficient player is 31% or 3.1 effective disposals. More importantly it is our backline who regularly hit targets and our mids and forwards who continually turn it over.

From a list management perspective we need to look at which players have the capacity to improve their disposal and work religiously on getting it right. Those who cannot fix this problem need to be traded away in return for opposition players who can dispose of the football but are lacking opportunity or for kids who can use it already.

Last year we were contested ball specialists and this year we have not been too bad either but we continually turn the ball over when attacking and it leaves our defenders completely out of postion going the other way. Picking stronger bodies or completely turning over the list may not in fact be the answer. Rather we just need to recruit some genuinely skillful players, work on improving our ball getting players efficiency and getting rid of those who are not capable of hitting targets at pace or under pressure.

Your thoughts...

Put this in perspective mate. The mids are kicking under pressure 80% of the time. Half of the backlines kicks are chips sideways for a switch which is an easy kick....or a kick over the top in the second possie of a kickout!

 

[win1soon]

Who i would trade if we could get any picks for them
McMahon
Tuck
Cogs
Schultz
Polo
Moore
Hughes
Brown

Would delist
Jon
Petts
Simmonds
Silverstre
Bowden (ret)
Johnson (ret)

Guys on last chance
Connors
Thompson
Hislop
King <-- only becauses hes contrated
Raines
Pattison