Moved Thread If Tasmania gets the 19th license, what state or territory would you like to see team 20 based in?

[Coolangatta]

It's a bit before my time, but that's my understanding too. The capital was moved from Melbourne, and it brought a lot of Victorians with it. Then a few subsequent waves of West and South Australians meant footy was strong. It was essentially an extension of the Riverina. We could be in a very different situation if the VFL took action back then. The footy support is still strong, but doesn't have the single team to focus support on the way the Raiders have (and the media, school visits etc that that brings).

For the four pre-Covid seasons, the Raiders averaged 13,252. If that 60/40 translated exactly, that would mean crowds of 19,877 for an AFL team. That's more than the Giants, Suns - and even more than North against non-Victorian teams.

I can't see anywhere else mentioned for Team 20, except possibly Perth, getting anywhere near those crowds.

I'd leave it on 19 teams (who cares if there's a bye) until the NT becomes viable, and I'd move GWS to Canberra ASAP. The endgame for me would be at least one team in every state and territory in the country. I think one team is enough for Sydney. The AFL desperately wants two there because they're greedy, but I don't think it will work.

 

[The_Wookie]

 

[Coolangatta]

Come on, AFL, do it! Don't worry about where a 20th team will come from! We don't need one!

Until the NT becomes viable, leave it at 19 teams.

For ACT, relocate GWS. But they probably won't.

 

[Woolly Mammoth]

Can anybody who subscribes to the Herald Sun help a paywalled brother out?

 

[Canberra Pear]

Come on, AFL, do it! Don't worry about where a 20th team will come from! We don't need one!

Until the NT becomes viable, leave it at 19 teams.

For ACT, relocate GWS. But they probably won't.

The Giants were on an upward trajectory in Western Sydney pre-Covid.

Giants Stadium crowds for the three years preceding Covid (2017-19) were up 45% on their inaugural three seasons (2012-14).

GWS slimly broke their membership record in 2022. And about 20k of them are in Sydney.

Yes, crowds having been shocking this year. In a year where crowds are down across the country, there are still 5k daily cases a day in NSW, and Sydney has had its wettest start to the year on record. GWS is still pretty new and without a rusted-on culture of attendance. The pandemic really disrupted their growth. Give them a few years of normality to get back on track.

If the Giants are still averaging four figures in a few years, we can come back to this discussion, but I think they’re in Sydney for the long haul (and should be).

If the Giants do become the Canberra Giants, they’d be embraced and successful. But I think a strong GWS in Sydney and a new team in Canberra would be best for the competition.

 

[Johnny Bananas]

I'd leave it on 19 teams (who cares if there's a bye) until the NT becomes viable,

You're gonna be waiting a very long time then.

and I'd move GWS to Canberra ASAP. The endgame for me would be at least one team in every state and territory in the country. I think one team is enough for Sydney. The AFL desperately wants two there because they're greedy, but I don't think it will work.

Bad idea. Western Sydney will work with time. When the opportunity to have two teams in a city that big is there, you take it.

 

[Bjo187]

The Giants were on an upward trajectory in Western Sydney pre-Covid.

Giants Stadium crowds for the three years preceding Covid (2017-19) were up 45% on their inaugural three seasons (2012-14).

GWS slimly broke their membership record in 2022. And about 20k of them are in Sydney.

Yes, crowds having been shocking this year. In a year where crowds are down across the country, there are still 5k daily cases a day in NSW, and Sydney has had its wettest start to the year on record. GWS is still pretty new and without a rusted-on culture of attendance. The pandemic really disrupted their growth. Give them a few years of normality to get back on track.

If the Giants are still averaging four figures in a few years, we can come back to this discussion, but I think they’re in Sydney for the long haul (and should be).

If the Giants do become the Canberra Giants, they’d be embraced and successful. But I think a strong GWS in Sydney and a new team in Canberra would be best for the competition.

Was reading on Facebook before they can't even sell out origin this week, giving away free tickets now. Was reading the comments and people complaining about homebush. Is this one of the issues for gws? I dunno.

Covid has really affected the expansion teams though I agree, as attendance hasn't become a long term habit for those club supporters like it had for older clubs.

 

[pz5151]

If the AFL does go with a 19 team league, they should be able to have Thursday night games every week. You could play one of the Friday night or Thursday night teams from the prior week against either one of the teams from Friday or Thursday or the team who is coming off a bye. That would also add value to the broadcast rights.

 

[Coolangatta]

If the AFL does go with a 19 team league, they should be able to have Thursday night games every week. You could play one of the Friday night or Thursday night teams from the prior week against either one of the teams from Friday or Thursday or the team who is coming off a bye. That would also add value to the broadcast rights.

Agreed, don’t know why some people freak out about the bye for. There doesn’t have to be a 20th team right after Tassie. I’d like to see NT and ACT eventually but there’s no rush and the latter might be better off being a relocated club depending on what happens in the next decade.

 

[Johnny Bananas]

Agreed, don’t know why some people freak out about the bye for. There doesn’t have to be a 20th team right after Tassie. I’d like to see NT and ACT eventually but there’s no rush and the latter might be better off being a relocated club depending on what happens in the next decade.

Why?

 

[Billy ray]

Also with the weekly bye, just like the traditional season opener and queen’s birthday and anzac day games never change, the AFL must schedule the wooden spooner as the bye in round 1, and the second last team as the bye in round 23. Both teams unlikely to feature in finals

 

[Coolangatta]

Why?

Because the league doesn’t need more than 20 teams, unless you think a NT team should never happen (with which I would disagree). Also, GWS might continue to struggle off field and North or one of the minnow Vic clubs. I suppose they could fold to make way for a new licence if it came to that. But I’d try and keep it to 20 teams.

 

[AG]

Leave the Giants where they are and go with Canberra over NT as a 20th potentially. NT is decades away from being viable but by then some existing clubs may have folded or be up for relocation unfortunately.

Too early to give up on GWS and move them to Canberra. On the field they have had a great start as a club and momentum lost off the field for the reasons already mentioned.

 

[Coolangatta]

Leave the Giants where they are and go with Canberra over NT as a 20th potentially. NT is decades away from being viable but by then some existing clubs may have folded or be up for relocation unfortunately.

Too early to give up on GWS and move them to Canberra. On the field they have had a great start as a club and momentum lost off the field for the reasons already mentioned.

That’s fair enough. NT proposal is interesting though. 300 mill closed roof stadium to offset climate issues, first few games in Alice Springs to offset Darwin wet season, and top notch Indigenous academy and more money to Indigenous affairs cabinet to mitigate player retention. They’ve calculated a loss of 15 million a year so maybe in time that loss gap will close. If there weren’t already so many teams, the AFL could’ve propped them up.

 

[Johnny Bananas]

Because the league doesn’t need more than 20 teams, unless you think a NT team should never happen (with which I would disagree).

Never is a long time, but I don't see it being viable before about 2050. I think Canberra is a far, far better option than the NT.

Also, GWS might continue to struggle off field and North or one of the minnow Vic clubs. I suppose they could fold to make way for a new licence if it came to that. But I’d try and keep it to 20 teams.

There's a lot of supposition there.

 

[Coolangatta]

Never is a long time, but I don't see it being viable before about 2050. I think Canberra is a far, far better option than the NT.

There's a lot of supposition there.

Yeah there is, the 10 Vic clubs could be okay and GWS might become a big club. If that’s the case, and Canberra follows Tassie as team 20, then you’d have 21 teams if the NT comes in. And I really think all of ACT, Tas and NT should have teams eventually. I don’t think 22 teams is necessary but if we ever get to 21 the AFL will probably want another.

Alice Springs doesn’t even deserve more than one game honestly.

I don’t care what you think they don’t deserve, but the fact is, they’d be a necessary factor in a NT team because you don’t want games happening in Darwin during wet season. So two or three games in Alice early in the year takes care of that.

 

[BigChippa52]

I think Canberra first they were a footy state at one point but now are mixed we keep messing up they deserve it then NT and either a random SA WA or QLD team or unlikely a NZ team

 

[weewilly]

I would prefer a team in North Qld based at Townsville.

 

[Coolangatta]

I'm surprised the NT are winning the poll, but I guess I shouldn't be surprised because emotion triumphs over reason. The population, infrastructure, and median wages of the NT are nowhere near enough to make them viable in <25 years.

Sounds like Tassie comes in by 2027 if they're accepted.

If I were to guess, team 20 will come in before 2037.

That's too soon for the NT to be ready so Canberra is the best choice, and Canberra should be ahead of WA3 too because WA isn't a new footy market.

 

[Canberra Pear]

I'm surprised the NT are winning the poll, but I guess I shouldn't be surprised because emotion triumphs over reason. The population, infrastructure, and median wages of the NT are nowhere near enough to make them viable in <25 years.

Sounds like Tassie comes in by 2027 if they're accepted.

If I were to guess, team 20 will come in before 2037.

That's too soon for the NT to be ready so Canberra is the best choice, and Canberra should be ahead of WA3 too because WA isn't a new footy market.

If the topic ever comes up on Twitter, the NT is already the assumed 20th team.

Nobody ever thinks about the logistics, just "wouldn't it be great?!".

The emotional argument, and the assumption that Canberra's a "rugby town", make the NT the default position for anybody who hasn't actually looked very hard into it.

 

[Bjo187]

If the topic ever comes up on Twitter, the NT is already the assumed 20th team.

Nobody ever thinks about the logistics, just "wouldn't it be great?!".

The emotional argument, and the assumption that Canberra's a "rugby town", make the NT the default position for anybody who hasn't actually looked very hard into it.

Interesting you say that, I was reading this from gws recruit wade dersken.

WHERE THERE’S A WILL, THERE’S A WADE​

Gabrielle Keegan 05.07.2022
From the Northern Territory, to Victoria, back to the Northern Territory, on to Western Australia and finally to New South Wales. Wade Derksen’s road trip around Australia was fuelled by determination and has culminated in his ultimate dream – a spot on an AFL list.
Derksen describes his route to the AFL as “a real adventure,” and couldn’t be more thankful that it all paid off when the Giants selected him with pick number five in the AFL Mid-Season Rookie Draft last month.
“I’m very, very fortunate. I haven’t played a great deal of footy over the last four years so to end up on a list, I just feel so lucky,” Derksen said.
The 21-year-old’s unconventional path to the AFL had its fair share of roadblocks, from a global pandemic, a slate of injuries and four interstate moves – all of which Derksen navigated whilst finding his feet as a new father.
His sporting journey began in Darwin but surprisingly, didn’t commence with a Sherrin in hand.
“It’s a town where the focus isn’t predominantly footy and I actually started off playing rugby,” he explained.
“Me and most of my mates played all sorts of sports but I guess when you get to a certain age, you’ve got to choose which pathway you want to go down if sport is your desire in life.”
Derksen ultimately followed his family’s footsteps, opting for Australian Rules and playing for the Nightcliff Tigers in the Northern Territory Football League (NTFL) – the club where his father, Mark, played 200 games.


*So not only does Darwin have the world's smallest population, but it isn't even a full footy town either? It's makes a weak as water case for a team even weaker.

 

[Canberra Pear]

Interesting you say that, I was reading this from gws recruit wade dersken.

WHERE THERE’S A WILL, THERE’S A WADE​

Gabrielle Keegan 05.07.2022
From the Northern Territory, to Victoria, back to the Northern Territory, on to Western Australia and finally to New South Wales. Wade Derksen’s road trip around Australia was fuelled by determination and has culminated in his ultimate dream – a spot on an AFL list.
Derksen describes his route to the AFL as “a real adventure,” and couldn’t be more thankful that it all paid off when the Giants selected him with pick number five in the AFL Mid-Season Rookie Draft last month.
“I’m very, very fortunate. I haven’t played a great deal of footy over the last four years so to end up on a list, I just feel so lucky,” Derksen said.
The 21-year-old’s unconventional path to the AFL had its fair share of roadblocks, from a global pandemic, a slate of injuries and four interstate moves – all of which Derksen navigated whilst finding his feet as a new father.
His sporting journey began in Darwin but surprisingly, didn’t commence with a Sherrin in hand.
“It’s a town where the focus isn’t predominantly footy and I actually started off playing rugby,” he explained.
“Me and most of my mates played all sorts of sports but I guess when you get to a certain age, you’ve got to choose which pathway you want to go down if sport is your desire in life.”
Derksen ultimately followed his family’s footsteps, opting for Australian Rules and playing for the Nightcliff Tigers in the Northern Territory Football League (NTFL) – the club where his father, Mark, played 200 games.


*So not only does Darwin have the world's smallest population, but it isn't even a full footy town either? It's makes a weak as water case for a team even weaker.

Good find. Thanks for that.

My assumption was that Darwin's focus was "predominantly" footy (as in more footy than league), but it reinforces that it's not as footy-focused as the southern states that Derksen didn't just default to it.

Looking at the senior men's teams, Darwin had 12 rugby league teams playing in 2022. Canberra, with more than triple the population, only had 17 teams (both cities still had more Aussie Rules teams).

Darwin's hosted two NRL games and two AFL games in the past two years. The NRL games averaged 11,037, while the AFL games averaged 6520.

Darwin and Canberra are probably actually pretty similar as multi-code cities. Darwin is just much smaller.

 

[Woolly Mammoth]

Canberra is "represented" by GWS and there is not a snowballs chance in hell the AFL is going to change that. NT too small. Is it time to discuss New Zealand?

 

[Canberra Pear]

Canberra is "represented" by GWS and there is not a snowballs chance in hell the AFL is going to change that. NT too small. Is it time to discuss New Zealand?

Canberra isn't any more "represented" by GWS than Tasmania is by North Melbourne.

If Canberra misses out on Team 20 due to the GWS relationship, the AFL is doing both Canberra and Western Sydney a disservice.

Not opposed to an NZ team down the line, but there needs to be a bit more groundwork laid first (consistent games and an AFL-ready stadium in Auckland, for starters).

 

[Woolly Mammoth]

Canberra isn't any more "represented" by GWS than Tasmania is by North Melbourne.

If Canberra misses out on Team 20 due to the GWS relationship, the AFL is doing both Canberra and Western Sydney a disservice.

Not opposed to an NZ team down the line, but there needs to be a bit more groundwork laid first (consistent games and an AFL-ready stadium in Auckland, for starters).

I should have clarified I am not saying it is right or a well thought out idea, but that's how it is in the eyes of AFL house, the idea that cancels Canberra out would suck/does suck, better crowds at Manuka than at the Showgrounds in 21 and 22 and all that.
NZ is one you hear mentioned as the final frontier but they don't seem to be making any effort with games there since the Saints experiment.