Don't mean to sound patronising here mate, but if it is extinction rather than relocation you will lose 20,000 members either way.
-
AFLW 2024 - Round 8 - Chat, game threads, injury lists, team lineups and more.
If we do move to the Gold Coast.......
- Thread starter rb214
- Start date
- Tagged users None
Don't mean to sound patronising here mate, but if it is extinction rather than relocation you will lose 20,000 members either way.
It's great to see some of the roos fans imbracing they fact that they may need to move and to those that say they will not continue to support there team should be ashamed.
I know when the Hawks looked at the merger with Melbourne I wasn't happy about it but if it did happen I would have been on board 100%. People have also said the Hawks may move to Tassie (it won't happen because Tassie don't have the population base to support an AFL club) but if the Hawks did move I would still be behind them and still purchase my membership.
They have this thing now called TV where you can watch your club play every week, it's quite remarkable.
I know when the Hawks looked at the merger with Melbourne I wasn't happy about it but if it did happen I would have been on board 100%. People have also said the Hawks may move to Tassie (it won't happen because Tassie don't have the population base to support an AFL club) but if the Hawks did move I would still be behind them and still purchase my membership.
They have this thing now called TV where you can watch your club play every week, it's quite remarkable.
No it won't happen because Hawthorn have a strong supporter base in Victoria. If a relocation was ever to be proposed, the Hawthorn supporter base would rally and pull the club out of trouble ala 1996 / carlton last year. However with financial position, facilities and support the club is currently experiencing, I cannot see how we could ever go back to a 1996 situation.
The Kangaroos however...
Relocation should be a last resort, if the AFL can prove that the Kangaroos can't exist without serious funding from the AFL AND CAN justify that an existance in QLD will serve them better in the long term....they should move.
HOWEVER, if the AFL were to completely over estimate AFL support in QLD on the back of the Lions 3-peat and are now not willing to take a backward step despite all the stats that matter pointing to the fact that SEQ struggles to support one let alone 2 full fledged AFL clubs, the Kangaroos have every right to be defiant on this topic...after all it is there future.
Unfortunately the AFL wields all the power and will tell the NMFC what to do whether or not it is benefical to the long term future of the Kangaroos.
LOL at the non Queensland posters suggesting Southport with their 60,000 'members' should enter the competition...you'd struggle to find 1,000 people that would consider themselves Southport 'supporters.' Unless you live up here, you'll never really understand how the system works on the Gold Coast.
HOWEVER, if the AFL were to completely over estimate AFL support in QLD on the back of the Lions 3-peat and are now not willing to take a backward step despite all the stats that matter pointing to the fact that SEQ struggles to support one let alone 2 full fledged AFL clubs, the Kangaroos have every right to be defiant on this topic...after all it is there future.
Unfortunately the AFL wields all the power and will tell the NMFC what to do whether or not it is benefical to the long term future of the Kangaroos.
LOL at the non Queensland posters suggesting Southport with their 60,000 'members' should enter the competition...you'd struggle to find 1,000 people that would consider themselves Southport 'supporters.' Unless you live up here, you'll never really understand how the system works on the Gold Coast.
- Moderator
- #57
Certainly not on free to air TV. Brisbane Lions Victorian supporters (obviously mostly Fitzroy supporters) saw their team on FTA a total of five times for the season. If you include the six Victorian games, there were NINE seperate occasions where those without a Foxtel subscription could watch their team.
2007 Lions schedule in Victoria
Rd 2 vs. St Kilda (Gabba) - FTA
Rd.5 vs. Carlton (Telstra Dome) (Vic. game)
Rd. 8 vs Essendon - (Telstra Dome) - (Vic. game and FTA)
Rd.10 vs. Richmond - (Telstra Dome) - (Vic. game)
Rd.11 vs. Western Bulldogs (Gabba) - FTA
Rd.12 vs. Geelong (Skilled Stadium) - (Vic. game)
Rd.17 vs. Collingwood (MCG) - (Vic. game and FTA)
Rd.19 vs. Hawthorn (MCG) - (Vic game)
Rd.22 vs. Geelong (Gabba) - FTA
Constrast that with the 15-16 times I could go and watch Fitzroy play live (and occasionally watch also on FTA. Not to mention the fact that I could also attend Fitzroy training nights and become involved in other social functions in and around the club.
- Thread starter
- #58
Roos draft allowances a no-go zone, say Pies
Caroline Wilson | October 23, 2007
COLLINGWOOD has threatened to take the AFL to court should it proceed with a plan to grant the Kangaroos a Gold Coast zone as part of a relocation package.
With further negotiations between the AFL and the Kangaroos board scheduled over the coming days on the sensitive subject of a permanent move to Queensland by 2010, Magpies president Eddie McGuire said his club would challenge the prospective inducements on offer at the highest legal level.
"Collingwood would fight as hard as is humanly possible and take all actions as is required to fight any more compromises to the draft," McGuire told The Age. "This is not a marketing exercise. We are running a football competition.
"I have been at pains to say we would support all clubs, including North Melbourne — even though they are privately owned — to receive financial support from the AFL. Let them have 55 coaches, a new stadium and new gym equipment but once the ball is bounced let's make it an even competition.
"Finally we have an uncompromised draft. West Coast lose a star player and he goes to the team on the bottom of the ladder. That's the way it should be. To give North a free kick as big as their own zone taints the integrity of the competition in the same way as drug cheating."
While the Kangaroos board remains divided over relocating, club directors Stephen Head and Andrew Carter are continuing to pursue the exercise with the AFL executive, the commission determined to procure a commitment from the club by the end of 2007.
Problems presented by the Kangaroos' complicated share structure and the AFL's yet-to-be completed push to secure a profitable stadium deal for the club are just two major headaches stalling the proceedings, along with the sticking point over how long AFL support for the relocated club would last.
The AFL has suggested the Kangaroos — who would not be forced to lose the name North Melbourne in the short term — could stand on their own by 2014, a fact disputed by the club that has demanded its own zone in its first years and also priority draft picks, demands the AFL has not refused.
The independently funded Gemba report into the club's future said the Kangaroos could not survive in Melbourne with their current Telstra Dome agreement and without extra AFL support. The club is funded to the tune of $2.6 million a year with $1.2 million of that amount coming from the competition's underwriting of matches played at Carrara. Whether the AFL redevelops Carrara or helps build a new stadium at Palm Meadows, the financial deal would be based on the hugely profitable Skilled Stadium model enjoyed by Geelong.
McGuire is understood to have underlined his concerns to the commission, further complicating the relocation push the AFL sees at crucial to the development of the game in Queensland. It has not ruled out withdrawing funding from the Kangaroos should they refuse to relocate.
"I'm fighting this not just for Collingwood," said McGuire. "I'm fighting this for the integrity of the competition. Two or three years is a lifetime for a football club in terms of draft picks … There is no need to put icing on the cake just to get them there.
"They should not be given one or two premierships just for good measure. To throw this up having tested everyone's patience on this issue for the last couple of decades is wrong."
Under McGuire's stewardship, Collingwood led the charge against an attempt by the AFL in 2001 to grant Sydney and Brisbane extra draft choices from local zones. Essendon joined the Magpies in that fight, which saw the league ultimately abandon the push.
Since then, Brisbane has gradually lost its salary cap concessions while Sydney still has extra room of about $800,000, granted as a cost-of-living concession.
What did I tell you guys, all you lot cheering for the Roos to go to the Gold Coast.
It`s not all that rosy!
Caroline Wilson | October 23, 2007
COLLINGWOOD has threatened to take the AFL to court should it proceed with a plan to grant the Kangaroos a Gold Coast zone as part of a relocation package.
With further negotiations between the AFL and the Kangaroos board scheduled over the coming days on the sensitive subject of a permanent move to Queensland by 2010, Magpies president Eddie McGuire said his club would challenge the prospective inducements on offer at the highest legal level.
"Collingwood would fight as hard as is humanly possible and take all actions as is required to fight any more compromises to the draft," McGuire told The Age. "This is not a marketing exercise. We are running a football competition.
"I have been at pains to say we would support all clubs, including North Melbourne — even though they are privately owned — to receive financial support from the AFL. Let them have 55 coaches, a new stadium and new gym equipment but once the ball is bounced let's make it an even competition.
"Finally we have an uncompromised draft. West Coast lose a star player and he goes to the team on the bottom of the ladder. That's the way it should be. To give North a free kick as big as their own zone taints the integrity of the competition in the same way as drug cheating."
While the Kangaroos board remains divided over relocating, club directors Stephen Head and Andrew Carter are continuing to pursue the exercise with the AFL executive, the commission determined to procure a commitment from the club by the end of 2007.
Problems presented by the Kangaroos' complicated share structure and the AFL's yet-to-be completed push to secure a profitable stadium deal for the club are just two major headaches stalling the proceedings, along with the sticking point over how long AFL support for the relocated club would last.
The AFL has suggested the Kangaroos — who would not be forced to lose the name North Melbourne in the short term — could stand on their own by 2014, a fact disputed by the club that has demanded its own zone in its first years and also priority draft picks, demands the AFL has not refused.
The independently funded Gemba report into the club's future said the Kangaroos could not survive in Melbourne with their current Telstra Dome agreement and without extra AFL support. The club is funded to the tune of $2.6 million a year with $1.2 million of that amount coming from the competition's underwriting of matches played at Carrara. Whether the AFL redevelops Carrara or helps build a new stadium at Palm Meadows, the financial deal would be based on the hugely profitable Skilled Stadium model enjoyed by Geelong.
McGuire is understood to have underlined his concerns to the commission, further complicating the relocation push the AFL sees at crucial to the development of the game in Queensland. It has not ruled out withdrawing funding from the Kangaroos should they refuse to relocate.
"I'm fighting this not just for Collingwood," said McGuire. "I'm fighting this for the integrity of the competition. Two or three years is a lifetime for a football club in terms of draft picks … There is no need to put icing on the cake just to get them there.
"They should not be given one or two premierships just for good measure. To throw this up having tested everyone's patience on this issue for the last couple of decades is wrong."
Under McGuire's stewardship, Collingwood led the charge against an attempt by the AFL in 2001 to grant Sydney and Brisbane extra draft choices from local zones. Essendon joined the Magpies in that fight, which saw the league ultimately abandon the push.
Since then, Brisbane has gradually lost its salary cap concessions while Sydney still has extra room of about $800,000, granted as a cost-of-living concession.
What did I tell you guys, all you lot cheering for the Roos to go to the Gold Coast.
It`s not all that rosy!
Eddies right, if Nth choose to move up here, give them everything it takes, except extra salary cap and draft concessions. You make even the things you can make even, that is the role for the AFL.
If the AFL kept propping up the Lions in terms of salary cap concessions, how many lions flags would it have taken before people started to become disinterested in the game?
Give the clubs all the off field support, but when it come to on field things such as lists and money paid to players, keep it even.
If the AFL kept propping up the Lions in terms of salary cap concessions, how many lions flags would it have taken before people started to become disinterested in the game?
Give the clubs all the off field support, but when it come to on field things such as lists and money paid to players, keep it even.
I'm neutral on Eddie and what he has done for Collingwood, but its a bit rich to cry foul over the salary cap concessions when Collingwood has very cleverly negotiated a 15 game MCG contract with the MCC and AFL for its supporters.
Don't get me wrong its great for Collingwood, but you can't have it one way and then demand another for a rival.
Don't get me wrong its great for Collingwood, but you can't have it one way and then demand another for a rival.
Anybody from North Melbourne who thinks a relocation to the Gold Coast is the magic cure all for their football club is both right and wrong. True that it would be for the long-term benefit of the club and the game; I dont think anybody disputes that if they persist for 15-20 years or more like South Melbourne and Bears/Fitzroy.
However, in the short-term bushfires would flare up on all fronts, both on and off the field, and both in Melbourne and on the Gold Coast. The club must be prepared to ride out the rough waters for a few years and cop the Gold Coast shore breaks and the dumpers from Melbourne.
At the moment North Melbourne Kangaroos are a small-fish in an AFL-pond. If they relocate, they will become a small-fish in a multi-code pond dominated by Rugby League.
However, in the short-term bushfires would flare up on all fronts, both on and off the field, and both in Melbourne and on the Gold Coast. The club must be prepared to ride out the rough waters for a few years and cop the Gold Coast shore breaks and the dumpers from Melbourne.
At the moment North Melbourne Kangaroos are a small-fish in an AFL-pond. If they relocate, they will become a small-fish in a multi-code pond dominated by Rugby League.
- Banned
- #64
Would it matter where North were in that case. ?
IMO with no draft, cap, or CBF, North would be in more danger in Melbourne than if they were in the GC where they could adopt a zone with only 1 other team to compete with.
Portia
#DrewBlood
30k Posts
10k Posts
TheBrownDog
Port Adelaide - Jesse Palmer Player Sponsor 2017
Podcaster
Port Adelaide - Riley Bonner Player Sponsor 2016
Port Adelaide - Brendon Ah Chee Player Sponsor 2014
Port Adelaide - Jarrad Redden Player Sponsor 2014
Port Adelaide - Matthew Broadbent Player Sponsor 2013
Port Adelaide - Captains Club 2012 Sponsor
Port Adelaide - John Butcher 2012 Player Sponsor
- Oct 7, 2001
- 50,502
- 24,864
- AFL Club
- Port Adelaide
- Other Teams
- Muckbuckle Dolmens
Good call, Doc.
Uh... have you read any of the posts by North Melbourne fans on this site? You don't think anyone doubts that we are better off on the Gold Coast than in Melbourne? What are you, delusional?
Read other threads where people with a bit of 'common sense' (inverted commas cos it don't appear to be too common on this site) have clearly illustrated through relative facts and figures that a move to the Gold Coast will spell doom. When after ten years and hundreds of millions of dollars have been wasted the AFL finally pull the pin the club will be finished. The Gold Coast is a White Elephant. Period.
- Banned
- #67
That seems to be your great fear. If you go to the GC and the AFL stops propping you up before you're self sufficient, you'll be left high and dry.
A couple of points:
1) If you stay in Melbourne, and the AFL stops propping you up, youll be stuffed to.
1.5) In the GC you'll be more strategic for the AFL, meaning they will be LESS likely to abandon you.
1.7) The AFL dont abandon outpost clubs. Look how low the Swans and Bears were, and they survived.
2) You have a defeatest attitude. North should go and MAKE the GC work. Dont expect everything to be given to you on a platter. Dont f it up like Canberra.
3) The SEQ area will have a massive population in 20 years and a fair proportion of that growth comes from AFL friendly states. Its not RL heartland. Its not owned by any particular sport, so its yours for the taking.
We have far, far more chance of being self-sufficient in Melbourne.
All this "growth" crap on the Gold Coast is exactly that. Crap. Yes, the overall population will grow, but it will still be mostly older people who either have a club or (more likely, as most are expected to move from Sydney) have no interest in Australian Football. And even with that growth, the Gold Coast's populationm in 2030 will be approximately half of what Brisbane's is now - up from a third - and what's Brisbane's financial situation like? Not good.
Any Gold Coast team will need extra funding way, way in excess of what we get currently (which basically is supposed to cover the dud TV deal we get; its not a subsidy, its compensation for Collingwood and Essendon being granted all the free to air coverage, and doesn't take into account the longer term harm of not being on FTA) and will continue to bleed money like there's no tomorrow for decades.
- Banned
- #69
How can you honestly say that. ?
- Banned
- #70
- Banned
- #71
with supporters like you, no wonder it's in trouble.
So you don't disagree with me that the Gold Coast will require huge inputs of money from the AFL for years to come? GOOD. That's point number one.
So your best argument for SEQ is its population? GOOD. That's the easiest to shoot down. It doesn't matter how many people are there, but how many will support a club. If populaton/corporate support was the most important thing to a club, we could put one in Singapore (just like the NBL).
What's that you say? What a stupid comment? Of course it is! If noone is going to support your club/code, it doesn't matter how many people you have! Sydney has a population of 4 million- can it host more than one club? NO! Why? NSW follows rugby! Who else follows rugby? Queensland!
All this rubbish about population proves the old adage 'a little bit of knowledge is bad thing'. You fools think you know how to run a business 'duh... you put the product in the biggest market, see, and then more people will buy it'.
The problem is you forget that we are born with a little thing called 'logic' which is supposed to guide us to intelligent decisions. Instead, you race to what you think is a clever conclusion, but which actually shows you up for the simpleton you are.
Let me make this clearer-
AFTER TWENTY YEARS, THREE RECENT PREMIERSHIPS, MILLIONS OF DOLLARS OF AFL SUPPORT AND THE ENTIRE MARKET TO THEMSELVES, BRISBANE HAD 16,000 LOCAL MEMBERS THIS YEAR.
How does this not make sense to you people?
There is a potential future profit in Sydney and Brisbane, and Sydney is worth TV money. The Gold Coast doesn't offer that.
1) Maybe, but at least we'd be dying as North melbourne, and not as some league imposed bullshit.
2) No. The defeatist attitude is to say "its all too hard" and bend over and take up the jaksi from the AFL. The attitude to save the North Melbourne Football Club is to keep the North melbourne Football Club.
3) the population of the GC will be approximately 800k in 2030 (ABS figures), a little over half what Brisbane is now - and most of that growth will come from older people moving up from Sydney. The age factor will not be evident to the same extent as it has been in the past, but its still largely expected to be an older demographic. The growth is hardly from a demographic likely to watch the AFL, or to bring children with them to win the next generation. We have a strong base of young support in Melbourne, we'd be abandoning; and destroying the essence of our club; that for nothing. And those that don't come from Sydney will already have a club, they aren't going to swap away from the club they've been following for 50 years just because they move. Nor are they likely to go to 11 games as neutrals; if football was that big a part of their lifestyle they'd have decided to stay where their club is.
Plus, as others have pointed out, Brisbane are not exactly a financial powerhouse now, its difficult to see how the little club down the road would be any better off.
Any GC team would require far more propping up than we allegedly get; which is mostly compensation for being dudded in every other way in order to maximise other clubs' income; and would never have any chance whatsoever of getting of that teat. In Melbourne, given decent opportunities, we can get off that and become self-sufficient. Its tough, its hard, and from outside it might look unlikely, but if our board gets off their arses and actually tries, we can do it. We are North Melbourne, and North Melbourne we must remain.
- Banned
- #74
Why is that so important.
Survey's show Brisbane has a lot of fans. This class battle between members and fans is a melbourne thing.
Ask yourself, if you were a fan of Brisbane, living in Brisbane, what incentive is their for membership. They werent going to make the GF this year, so GF tickets arent an issue. The games dont sell out, so you can always get a ticket. You ticket price goes to the lions so you're helping them as much financially as a member.
Get this through your thick head. Memberships is an outdated model for prosperity. TV rights, sponsors are measures of sustainability. The AFL will judge your TV appeal, and sponsor appeal in determining your viability. Brisbane are miles ahead of the Roos on those counts....and GC roos is ahead of the North Roos too.
The only non-metrololitan capital city regional team in the AFL is Geelong and even they play 5 home games per year in Melbourne at the MCG !!! Therefore, Geelong are pretty much the 10th Melbourne team.
You could easily argue the case that AFL has grown so big that the possibility of regional teams has been blown out of the water.... let alone a regional team in a non-heartland area.... thats a double whammy.
Even if you could survive on the Gold Coast, you would never have the resources of the other clubs and always the poor cousin. Whereas, the Gold Coast Titans have the 2nd highest crowds, ratings are booming, and merchandise sales are through the roof... all in year one!
Rugby League embraces regional teams, AFL doesnt.
You could easily argue the case that AFL has grown so big that the possibility of regional teams has been blown out of the water.... let alone a regional team in a non-heartland area.... thats a double whammy.
Even if you could survive on the Gold Coast, you would never have the resources of the other clubs and always the poor cousin. Whereas, the Gold Coast Titans have the 2nd highest crowds, ratings are booming, and merchandise sales are through the roof... all in year one!
Rugby League embraces regional teams, AFL doesnt.
