ill say it...

[Kangamarshy]

Without having read one thread, Stevo's effort in dropping those two marks was woeful. Things like that cost you games in those situations. rather than lay the blame on blokes like Watt etc (who was pretty terrible), we should also be looking at Stevo - who should know better - for an inadequate performance.
I can imaginne I'll get the 'lay off the bloke, he's a club icon' lines, but how can people bag blokes like watt and harris when they haven't got the balls to do so to player like stevo who have been round long enough to do better

 

[BW]

I hear ya mate.

That shovel throw which cost us a goal was woeful. Suprised that hasnt been scrutinised like Watts effort was, afterall Watts only cost us a point.

Although to be fair he looked a bit groggy when dropping those marks, proven when he came off staight away and had his noggen strapped.

 

[Karanicolas]

Originally posted by Kangamarshy
I can imaginne I'll get the 'lay off the bloke, he's a club icon' lines, but how can people bag blokes like watt and harris when they haven't got the balls to do so to player like stevo who have been round long enough to do better

I don't think we should bag blokes like Stevo, because they have a lot of credits.

I don't think we should bag younk blokes like Watt and Harris after they have played 10 games, because they should be given 2-3 seasons of senior football to see whether they can cut it (unless they are truly woeful).

But getting back to Stevo, I hope those 2 mistakes are not an indication of a general decline in his playing ability. The commentators were spot on when they said he hadn't looked sharp all night.

 

[Kangamarshy]

Im with you two. I agree with the fact that Stevo has earnt a hell of a lot of credits.
But if people are gonna give the the young blokes a cracking, then give it to the captain as well!!!!

 

[KingyOrTheKing]

Originally posted by Kangamarshy
.....how can people bag blokes like watt and harris when they haven't got the balls to do so to player like stevo who have been round long enough to do better

Exactly!

 

[Dingster]

Originally posted by Kangamarshy
how can people bag blokes like watt and harris when they haven't got the balls to do so to player like stevo who have been round long enough to do better

Firstly a qualifier! I haven`t bagged Watt, but would prefer Brown at FB for team balance. I don`t rate Watt, but that doesn`t mean I or others want him to fail. Just an opinion.

To answer the above, I think it boils down to achievement. Stevo has put the score on the board time and time again. To have an off night is more forgivable. With Watt, he is yet to put the score on the board and arguably is too often second to the ball and doesn`t read the game well. Therefore he is more open to criticism. Maybe with game experience he will turn this perception around, but in the minds of many, he`s a way off filling that undoubted potential.

 

[mighty mick]

in fairness to stevo he was mildly concussed when he made the throw era thats why he went off

i didnt see watt get hit in the head so no excuse thier, and as for harris i am quite impressed with him and his input

 

[Wrath]

Re: Re: ill say it...

Originally posted by Dingster
Firstly a qualifier! I haven`t bagged Watt, but would prefer Brown at FB for team balance. I don`t rate Watt, but that doesn`t mean I or others want him to fail. Just an opinion.

To answer the above, I think it boils down to achievement. Stevo has put the score on the board time and time again. To have an off night is more forgivable. With Watt, he is yet to put the score on the board and arguably is too often second to the ball and doesn`t read the game well. Therefore he is more open to criticism. Maybe with game experience he will turn this perception around, but in the minds of many, he`s a way off filling that undoubted potential.

On the Watt issue, there is one glaring parallel that can be applied. For those old enough to remember, one of our favorite sones that played the same spot Watt is trying to make his own, had a worse start to his VFL/AFL career. In case you havent worked out who l am talking about, it is Micky Martyn.

When he started out, he couldnt mark, kick, or spoil effectively. His most effective role was to belt the living dayliights out of the guys who made him look average.

In time and persistance, Micky went from being a bar room brawler so to speak to one of the best Full Backs in the game, during a climate when arguably the greatest Full Fowards to play the game played at the same time. ie. Dunstall, Lockett, Abblet.

l am not suggesting Watt is going to be the next Micky Martyn, but Micky is a pure example of how if you take some pain in the short term, you can have a big win in the long term.

Watt has alot going for him, and is learning the Full Back caper, l hope Laidley leaves him there, takes the hurt in the short term. Make the assessment at the end of the year, not the beginning.

Wrath

 

[Dingster]

Re: Re: Re: ill say it...

Originally posted by Wrath
On the Watt issue, there is one glaring parallel that can be applied. For those old enough to remember, one of our favorite sones that played the same spot Watt is trying to make his own, had a worse start to his VFL/AFL career. In case you havent worked out who l am talking about, it is Micky Martyn.

True and I went to those games when he would get carved up. I felt that he would often get badly beaten early and would get better as the match went on. With experience he became more consistent.

However with Watt, I don`t get the feeling that he is going to be a player yet. Don`t get me wrong. I think Laidley is doing the right thing by giving him every chance to learn the trade and sticking by him. I just think that Brown is a better long term option at FB and we have a number of options capable of playing up forward. Can`t play them all!

 

[Woodson]

Re: Anvil our next Mick

Originally posted by Wrath
Watt has alot going for him, and is learning the Full Back caper, l hope Laidley leaves him there, takes the hurt in the short term. Make the assessment at the end of the year, not the beginning.

Wrath

I can understand your theory but as U said about Mick Martyn, who's fear factor on the opposition got him to the status of what he's become... Watt isn't capable of playing ANGRY...put the 'Anvil' Leigh Brown back there and play Watt up the field if anything.

As for Stevo.....just not one of his best nights but I'll still keep him

 

[Z_K]

I was cursing at the time.

But, it is a measure of his outstanding and consistent career when a few mistakes like that stand out like dog's balls. I reckon most of us would have been shocked at the errors more than anything. Stevo is supposed to make mistakes.

On Watt, he is goijng to be given a season to make the grade. He is our full back. Perrie is not a footballer, and he kicked 6 which is a worry, but I do not mind at all if Watt is given time. Unless Crowe can recover quickly and force his way in, Watt is the man. He will improve IMO, but he needs to get angry.

 

[Shinboners]

Re: Re: Anvil our next Mick

Originally posted by Woodson
I can understand your theory but as U said about Mick Martyn, who's fear factor on the opposition got him to the status of what he's become... Watt isn't capable of playing ANGRY...put the 'Anvil' Leigh Brown back there and play Watt up the field if anything.

In recent seasons, I'm pretty sure that over the past ten years, Silvagni, Leppitsch, Hay, McIntosh, Hart, and Fletcher were All Australian fullbacks and none of them played "angry" in the same way that Mick did. For that matter, a few likened Watt to David Dench last week, and Dench never played angry either (or did the other great fullback of that era, Geoff Southby).

Watt is not going to be another Mick Martyn in the way he plays, and we shouldn't expect him to be Mick version 2.0 If we persist with Watt, hopefully he'll turn into a Leppitsch or Hart style fullback, who not only can shut out their opponent, but who can also set up play. We know that Watt has the athleticism for the role, he just doesn't have the experience for it yet.

As for Stevo.....just not one of his best nights but I'll still keep him

Totally agree with you there.

 

[Angus1]

Stevo had a shocker but I'm willing to bet that he wasn't right after taking a blow to the head.
He looked groggy and unsure of where he was.
Stevo doesn't make mistakes like that so in my opinion he was groggy and should have been taken off the ground earlier.

We had a lot of players down and still we only got beat by 4 points.
The short pass game gets ugly if the skills aren't spot on so we can expect a lot more embarrassing moments throughout the year.

 

[Ausgard]

Stevo - crap mistake but these things happen.

Watt - still learning the caper.

Give him 2003 and then we will know

Perhaps even swap him with Brown between FB, CHB, HBF or whatever - maybe even the floating backman. I don't mind him swapping positions just so long as he gets game time

 

[mighty mick]

at least mick was a half decent full forward in his youth, as for watt it would be good if he could become an athletic not angry type full back, they are more common these days,

 

[Woodson]

Physical Attention

Seems that Mick's fearsome aura scared the living crap outta his oppenents in those old days...who can possibily believe Mick was a capable straight shooting natural full forward with over 90 season goals at u/19's level???

Watt is in his fourth year ? I wouldn't mind seeing him getting a fair go BUT when the likes of Perrie get continual uncontested balls to kick 6 goals I'd hate to think what a Matt Lloyd and Alistar Lynch can do. It's the uncontested ISSUE that bothers me about Watt...can he possibily get close to JAM his opponent ??

 

[mighty mick]

Re: Physical Attention

Originally posted by Woodson


Watt is in his fourth year ?

this is why i dont see him as our next fullback, he has been given plenty of time to claim the possie.

he was not restricted under the pagan youth plan he got game time but was not able to take advantage of it.

 

[King Corey]

Far out, he was drafted as a 16 yo in 1997, only had 2 games in 2 years, played ok when promoted in 2000 (played a good ruck/fwd game against Collingwood and earnt praise from Pagan) then 2001 looked reasonable (outmarked Lloyd before the dirty **** pulled him down from behind and concussed him) and also in the Dogs game that year. Wasn't really used much last year.

He has looked lost at times so far - especially against Perrie - but- if we're going to persist with any type of player, I'd most like to be a early 20s 192cm athletic defender. Thinking back, the flair he showed in the Pies game in 2000 has not re-emerged yet. If it does, I think he might silence a few.

 

[Woodson]

Watt the ....

Originally posted by King Corey
Thinking back, the flair he showed in the Pies game in 2000 has not re-emerged yet. If it does, I think he might silence a few.

Hope you're right KC..... I'll be the first to admit I underestimated his FB capabilities....But Sat night was very hard to take...... ...although I was impressed with his game against West Coast in a pre-season comp game a few years ago ...not sure if he was tried in the ruck that night ?? ran amok

North Have Courage

 

[Groucho]

Unless forwards go to town on him I'd still tell him the full back possy's his for the year as long as he shows he's learning from his mistakes. Playing FB in the AFL is a hard caper and I think you can only learn on the job. True he played badly on saturday against Perrie but I was only really disappointed with two of Perrie's marks as Watt was not even in the screen, but he's being asked to play a rebounding defender's role as well as a defensive one and ,from memory,he was caught out on one of those occasions by a terrible kick out of defence, when he was off and running to create an option, as we had unpressured possession. Some are saying play Brown there but what if he gets 8 kicked on him,who then? It's a job you've gotta be groomed for and you just have to accept he'll get walloped a few times along the way. If he gets "walloped" every week ,ok you know he can't cut it and "plan B it",but I bet Watt doesn't get beaten every week and he'll become a good player if given the chance.

 

[myee8]

Re: Re: Physical Attention

Originally posted by mighty mick
this is why i dont see him as our next fullback, he has been given plenty of time to claim the possie.

he was not restricted under the pagan youth plan he got game time but was not able to take advantage of it.

You can't really take much into the 4yrs he has been here in terms of being a fullback. Mick has been our best fullback for the best part of nearly 15yrs, and during that time, the likes of McCartney, filled in for him, and this increased in frequency as he neared the end of his career with us. Therefore Watt wouldn't have gotten much chance there. Additionally Pagan didn't seem to give Watt much of a decent run either so that didn't help.

Speaking of players who filled in for Martyn when he got injured or suspended, can anyone remember who did fill in for Mick? I have Jase, and Chris Groom keeps on popping into my mind, but i can't think of others. Help please.

 

[mighty mick]

Re: Re: Re: Physical Attention

Speaking of players who filled in for Martyn when he got injured or suspended, can anyone remember who did fill in for Mick? I have Jase, and Chris Groom keeps on popping into my mind, but i can't think of others. Help please. [/B]

one player who played many games at full back was johnny longmire, if there was one player who had the wood on dunstall it was longmire, and sometimes even when mick was fit he would play down back.

mainly when he was coming back from knee injuries as he was unable to lead as a full forward but make a decent contest as fullback

 

[shintemaster]

Absolutely, The Horse had Dunstall's numberl, and he was definitely the s^%t! A player who was hampered by injuries, yet when you realise how versatile he was you realise he had the goods in quite a few areas...
Plus, he was an absolutely nice guy... saw him last year when we played Sydney and just hope he ends up at Arden St. eventually...

 

[myee8]

Hmm, Longmire eh? Not bad for a fullforward as good as he was.