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I don't know where I heard it yesterday, but someone said Biden v Trump would be like the last election being a battle between Howard and Keating as leaders of their parties.

Biden (1942) v Trump (1946) and Howard (1939) v Keating (1944).

Surely the US has a lot better qualified people to be running for the highest office in the land, and effective leader of the western world against authoritarian world.
 

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The Lancet has estimated the death toll in Gaza at 186,000. This is a massacre.

Meanwhile Australia... Has decided yesterday to appoint an envoy on anti semitism.

www.abc.net.au

Prime minister names Jillian Segal as first Australian anti-Semitism envoy

Recognising a rise in Jewish people in Australia being targeted after the October 7 Hamas terror attack, Prime Minister Anthony Albanese appoints Jillian Segal as the first special envoy for anti-Semitism.
www.abc.net.au www.abc.net.au

Wanting Israel to stop slaughtering children in the thousands is not anti semitism you stupid campaigners.
 
George Clooney pulling out of fundraising for Biden, Nancy Pelosi refusing to answer the question of whether Biden should pull out or stay in the race, and the below CNN video with Joe Tapper ripping into Biden - pro democrat media outlet, I can see a Bill Hayden, February 1983 Drover's Dog moment repeating.

Biden is getting the sort of advice Hayden got 41 years ago.

For those who weren't around in 1983 or haven't read/studied their Australian political history, some context.

When very good mate and leader of the Labor opposition in the senate, John Button went and counselled Bill to hand over the reigns to Bob Hawke because he would definitely beat the Fraser coalition government after 8 years and 3 months in office, it was the final straw for Hayden, who was pissed off his party had turned on him, not as a person, but driven by desire to obtain political power, Bill uttered these famous words at his press conference announcing he was giving up the leadership of the party;

www.openforum.com.au

Will Labor's 'drover's dog' have his day? - Openforum

If the polls are right, Bill Shorten will become the next prime minister, so what kind of national leader would he be?
www.openforum.com.au

“I believe a drover’s dog could lead the Labor Party to victory the way the country is and the way the opinion polls are.”

Uttered by Labor’s Bill Hayden on the day the 1983 election was called, as he dramatically announced his resignation as opposition leader to make way for the irresistible force of Bob Hawke, these words are part of Australian political folklore.

Hayden had every right to feel bitter, as his last-minute supplanting by Hawke robbed him of the opportunity to become prime minister. He had inherited Labor’s leadership more than five years before, when it was reeling from crushing defeat. He had worked conscientiously to restore the party’s shattered stocks by building around him a united and talented front bench, and had overseen a major renovation of the party’s policy program.

Hawkie over the next few years was occasionally referred to as the Drover's Dog.


 
Last edited:
RussellEbertHandball said:
George Clooney pulling out of fundraising for Biden, Nancy Pelosi refusing to answer the question of whether Biden should pull out or stay in the race, and the below CNN video with Joe Tapper ripping into Biden - pro democrat media outlet, I can see a Bill Hayden, February 1983 Drover's Dog moment repeating.

Biden is getting the sort of advice Hayden got 41 years ago.

For those who weren't around in 1983 or haven't read/studied their Australian political history, some context.

When very good mate and leader of the Labor opposition in the senate, John Button went and counselled Bill to hand over the reigns to Bob Hawke because he would definitely beat the Fraser coalition government after 8 years and 3 months in office, it was the final straw for Hayden, who was pissed off his party had turned on him, not as a person, but driven by desire to obtain political power, Bill uttered these famous words at his press conference announcing he was giving up the leadership of the party;

www.openforum.com.au

Will Labor's 'drover's dog' have his day? - Openforum

If the polls are right, Bill Shorten will become the next prime minister, so what kind of national leader would he be?
www.openforum.com.au

“I believe a drover’s dog could lead the Labor Party to victory the way the country is and the way the opinion polls are.”

Uttered by Labor’s Bill Hayden on the day the 1983 election was called, as he dramatically announced his resignation as opposition leader to make way for the irresistible force of Bob Hawke, these words are part of Australian political folklore.

Hayden had every right to feel bitter, as his last-minute supplanting by Hawke robbed him of the opportunity to become prime minister. He had inherited Labor’s leadership more than five years before, when it was reeling from crushing defeat. He had worked conscientiously to restore the party’s shattered stocks by building around him a united and talented front bench, and had overseen a major renovation of the party’s policy program.

Hawkie over the next few years was occasionally referred to as the Drover's Dog.


Click to expand...

Yep.

I get that the US Presidential race is all about donors and dollars. And winding up funding for a new Democratic candidate to replace Biden takes immense time and effort. doing it within just a couple of months is unheard of in living Presidential election history.

I also get that under US tax laws, the millions already donated specifically to the Re-elect Biden campaign cannot be readily accessed or transferred to a new candidate for them to use.

But the noise to replace Biden is now getting so loud and so widespread that he is looking like being a dead duck candidate and campaign donations given to him will be for a lost cause anyway. The big fear here is that voters who hate Trump and what his MAGA campaign stands for will not turn up to vote because they don't think Biden is a credible option who has any chance of seeing out his full term.

The vision of Biden in that first debate cannot be unseen.



Every day that the Biden team delay getting him to stand down and the Democrats find a credible younger candidate is a gift to that criminal socio-path Donald Trump and his dangerous nut job supporters. And Australia - having handed over effective financial sovereignty of our regional defence to the US via the AUKUS nuclear sub deal - has a major stake in this of course.
 
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Festerz said:
Yep.

I get that the US Presidential race is all about donors and dollars. And winding up funding for a new Democratic candidate to replace Biden takes immense time and effort. doing it within just a couple of months is unheard of in living Presidential election history.

I also get that under US tax laws, the millions already donated specifically to the Re-elect Biden campaign cannot be readily accessed or transferred to a new candidate for them to use.

But the noise to replace Biden is now getting so loud and so widespread that he is looking like being a dead duck candidate and campaign donations given to him will be for a lost cause anyway. The big fear here is that voters who hate Trump and what his MAGA campaign stands for will not turn up to vote because they don't think Biden is a credible option who has any chance of seeing out his full term.

The vision of Biden in that first debate cannot be unseen.



Every day that the Biden team delay getting him to stand down and the Democrats find a credible younger candidate is a gift to that criminal socio-path Donald Trump and his dangerous nut job supporters. And Australia - having handed over effective financial sovereignty of our regional defence to the US via the AUKUS nuclear sub deal - has a major stake in this of course.
Click to expand...


Not just Trump, but the GOP could get the House and Senate too, to go with their stacked Supreme Court.
 
Biden stumbles again at the NATO Summit in Washington.




  • Biden mistakenly refers to his Vice-President Kamala Harris as "Vice-President Trump" in his first answer in his official press conference.
  • It came shortly after he introduced Ukraine's president as Vladimir Putin at a Nato event in Washington, triggering gasps in the room
  • Biden quickly corrected himself, saying: "I'm so focused on beating Putin"

FMD. It's over Joe.
www.bbc.com

Biden live updates: Biden facing media as re-election bid hangs in balance

The US president, who is under intense scrutiny amid concerns over his age, is holding a high-stakes news conference in Washington.
www.bbc.com
 
RussellEbertHandball said:
George Clooney pulling out of fundraising for Biden, Nancy Pelosi refusing to answer the question of whether Biden should pull out or stay in the race, and the below CNN video with Joe Tapper ripping into Biden - pro democrat media outlet, I can see a Bill Hayden, February 1983 Drover's Dog moment repeating.

Biden is getting the sort of advice Hayden got 41 years ago.

For those who weren't around in 1983 or haven't read/studied their Australian political history, some context.

When very good mate and leader of the Labor opposition in the senate, John Button went and counselled Bill to hand over the reigns to Bob Hawke because he would definitely beat the Fraser coalition government after 8 years and 3 months in office, it was the final straw for Hayden, who was pissed off his party had turned on him, not as a person, but driven by desire to obtain political power, Bill uttered these famous words at his press conference announcing he was giving up the leadership of the party;

www.openforum.com.au

Will Labor's 'drover's dog' have his day? - Openforum

If the polls are right, Bill Shorten will become the next prime minister, so what kind of national leader would he be?
www.openforum.com.au

“I believe a drover’s dog could lead the Labor Party to victory the way the country is and the way the opinion polls are.”

Uttered by Labor’s Bill Hayden on the day the 1983 election was called, as he dramatically announced his resignation as opposition leader to make way for the irresistible force of Bob Hawke, these words are part of Australian political folklore.

Hayden had every right to feel bitter, as his last-minute supplanting by Hawke robbed him of the opportunity to become prime minister. He had inherited Labor’s leadership more than five years before, when it was reeling from crushing defeat. He had worked conscientiously to restore the party’s shattered stocks by building around him a united and talented front bench, and had overseen a major renovation of the party’s policy program.

Hawkie over the next few years was occasionally referred to as the Drover's Dog.


Click to expand...


I'm not sure who Bob Hawke is in this scenario. ;)

An Ipsos poll was held only 10 days ago and in hypothetical match ups, only Michelle Obama would beat Trump. And she's not even a Democrat politician.

1720743254277.png


I thought this would be a Drover's Dog election and if Biden could actually hold himself together he would win because he's not Trump. But he is visibly disintegrating before our eyes and I overestimated the capacity of Americans to see Trump for the lying charlatan anti-democracy fraud he is.

I've seen interviews with Americans and they don't appear to be RWNJ's just everyday people and they're hurting from cost of living and they blame Biden. All the charges and findings against Trump don't appear to resonate with them at all. It's all about how he can make things better for me. This is the world we live in.

Joe should go, but it will make no difference to the result. The Dems don't have a candidate who has universal appeal or is high-enough profile to duke it out with Trump.

This is a cross of the Dem's own making, had they cultivated a high-profile alternative in the four years they had they would not be in this position. I wasn't joking about Clooney, even Dwayne The Rock Johnson would win the election, because American politics is little more than theatre sports now.
 

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Grave Danger said:
Ah - I saw that "Vice President Trump" was trending on X this morning and assumed it was to do with some of the Epstein Island revelations. Biden needs to do a Yuri and drop off.
Click to expand...


To be fair, confusing a black woman in her 50s with an orange man in his 70s is an easy thing to do. :drunk:
 
Festerz said:
Biden stumbles again at the NATO Summit in Washington.




  • Biden mistakenly refers to his Vice-President Kamala Harris as "Vice-President Trump" in his first answer in his official press conference.
  • It came shortly after he introduced Ukraine's president as Vladimir Putin at a Nato event in Washington, triggering gasps in the room
  • Biden quickly corrected himself, saying: "I'm so focused on beating Putin"

FMD. It's over Joe.
www.bbc.com

Biden live updates: Biden facing media as re-election bid hangs in balance

The US president, who is under intense scrutiny amid concerns over his age, is holding a high-stakes news conference in Washington.
www.bbc.com
Click to expand...


I thought when there was a "clear and present danger" to the US democracy the CIA or whatever would do some secret shit. Why haven't these bozos knocked off Biden or Trump yet?

I mean to be clear, the real danger is tramp who wants to be an autocrat. Biden, assuming he gets in, is just a doddery old dementia patient, but I have more faith in his administration. He'll probably die soon anyway.

But the problem is he's making it almost impossible to vote for him, even if the alternative is a fascist.
 
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Ford Fairlane said:
I'm not sure who Bob Hawke is in this scenario. ;)

An Ipsos poll was held only 10 days ago and in hypothetical match ups, only Michelle Obama would beat Trump. And she's not even a Democrat politician.

View attachment 2045769


I thought this would be a Drover's Dog election and if Biden could actually hold himself together he would win because he's not Trump. But he is visibly disintegrating before our eyes and I overestimated the capacity of Americans to see Trump for the lying charlatan anti-democracy fraud he is.

I've seen interviews with Americans and they don't appear to be RWNJ's just everyday people and they're hurting from cost of living and they blame Biden. All the charges and findings against Trump don't appear to resonate with them at all. It's all about how he can make things better for me. This is the world we live in.

Joe should go, but it will make no difference to the result. The Dems don't have a candidate who has universal appeal or is high-enough profile to duke it out with Trump.

This is a cross of the Dem's own making, had they cultivated a high-profile alternative in the four years they had they would not be in this position. I wasn't joking about Clooney, even Dwayne The Rock Johnson would win the election, because American politics is little more than theatre sports now.
Click to expand...
Those polls are being conducted at a time where most Americans probably don't know who Gavin Newsom, Gretchen Whitmer etc even are. Give them a few months to raise their profile in front of a camera and appearing to be anybody other than a senile octogenarian or Literally The Person With The Fewest Redeeming Qualities On The Planet and I reckon you'd see those polls change.
 
www.abc.net.au

Australia pledges biggest ever boost for Ukraine as NATO calls out China as Russia's 'enabler'

The Australian government is set to give Ukraine another $250 million in military support — its largest contribution to the war effort to date.
www.abc.net.au www.abc.net.au

"When we witnessed, a few years ago, a no-limits agreement being signed between China and Russia on the eve of Russia's illegal invasion in Ukraine … the events of eastern Europe became fundamentally important to us," Mr Marles said at a meeting of the Asia-Pacific leaders.
 
Ford Fairlane said:
I'm not sure who Bob Hawke is in this scenario. ;)

An Ipsos poll was held only 10 days ago and in hypothetical match ups, only Michelle Obama would beat Trump. And she's not even a Democrat politician.

View attachment 2045769


I thought this would be a Drover's Dog election and if Biden could actually hold himself together he would win because he's not Trump. But he is visibly disintegrating before our eyes and I overestimated the capacity of Americans to see Trump for the lying charlatan anti-democracy fraud he is.

I've seen interviews with Americans and they don't appear to be RWNJ's just everyday people and they're hurting from cost of living and they blame Biden. All the charges and findings against Trump don't appear to resonate with them at all. It's all about how he can make things better for me. This is the world we live in.

Joe should go, but it will make no difference to the result. The Dems don't have a candidate who has universal appeal or is high-enough profile to duke it out with Trump.

This is a cross of the Dem's own making, had they cultivated a high-profile alternative in the four years they had they would not be in this position. I wasn't joking about Clooney, even Dwayne The Rock Johnson would win the election, because American politics is little more than theatre sports now.
Click to expand...
Agree with this.

In 1983 Hawke was extremely well known and a proven leader and icon of the people well before he became leader of the ALP - polls showed him as preferred PM even when he was still head of the ACTU.

There is no such person other than Kamala Harris in the Democrat camp. And even today, Biden was downplaying her as a potential Presidential candidate - telling a world broadcast press conference that she didn't have what it takes (in so many words).

With just 4 months to go to the polls, Donald Trump Jr - the convicted criminal, psychopathic narcissist, racist, misogynist pussy grabber and ring leader of the 6 Jan Capitol insurrectionist riots is in the box seat to be re-elected President.

This is a disaster for the Democrats, the US people and anyone with a functioning brain capable of rational thinking in the rest of the world.
 
I wonder a late candidate switch might be a winning move if they land it right. Would mean trump has been swinging fists at the wrong opponent all this time and could gather the support quickly. But who knows, since 2016 everything has been unpredictable 🤷‍♂️
 
Ford Fairlane said:
I'm not sure who Bob Hawke is in this scenario. ;)

An Ipsos poll was held only 10 days ago and in hypothetical match ups, only Michelle Obama would beat Trump. And she's not even a Democrat politician.

View attachment 2045769


I thought this would be a Drover's Dog election and if Biden could actually hold himself together he would win because he's not Trump. But he is visibly disintegrating before our eyes and I overestimated the capacity of Americans to see Trump for the lying charlatan anti-democracy fraud he is.

I've seen interviews with Americans and they don't appear to be RWNJ's just everyday people and they're hurting from cost of living and they blame Biden. All the charges and findings against Trump don't appear to resonate with them at all. It's all about how he can make things better for me. This is the world we live in.

Joe should go, but it will make no difference to the result. The Dems don't have a candidate who has universal appeal or is high-enough profile to duke it out with Trump.

This is a cross of the Dem's own making, had they cultivated a high-profile alternative in the four years they had they would not be in this position. I wasn't joking about Clooney, even Dwayne The Rock Johnson would win the election, because American politics is little more than theatre sports now.
Click to expand...
Nation wide polls have become some what meaningless. They are just a snapshot, not the whole movie.

Polls in swing states have more meaning, and there aren't many of those states left, but they don't like publishing them because it means more work, smarter work is needed.

The last couple of elections have swung on 75,000 and then 40,000 voting margins in 4 or 5 states. The 3 million or so difference in total votes meant bugger all in the end.
 
Schulzenfest said:
Those polls are being conducted at a time where most Americans probably don't know who Gavin Newsom, Gretchen Whitmer etc even are. Give them a few months to raise their profile in front of a camera and appearing to be anybody other than a senile octogenarian or Literally The Person With The Fewest Redeeming Qualities On The Planet and I reckon you'd see those polls change.
Click to expand...

Hope so. Newsom has been Governor of California since 2019 so you think they would know of him. But maybe anyone east of Pacific Daylight Time finds Californians a mystery to them. Hollyweird and all that.
 
I want Trump to appoint Marjorie Taylor Green as his running mate. Might be the US's last hope. Or will solidify his support base if we expect the worst.
 
Filmmaker and activist Michael Moore said he thinks President Joe Biden is the victim of “a form of elder abuse” as those around him push him to stay in the race.

“Watching the debate a week ago was heartbreaking,” Moore told MSNBC’s Ayman Mohyeldin. “Why did they even let him go out on the stage in this condition? Who was looking out for him? Who’s looking out for him right now?”
Click to expand...

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/michael-moore-heartbreaking-biden_n_668b6d4ce4b07ef2c8176044
 
Biden, quickly corrected his Putin / Zelensky gaff. He didn't correct his Vice President Trump gaff, just kept talking.

I watched the whole Biden presser - more listening than watching as I had it on in the background as I was doing work.

Biden was on his "home" ground with foreign affairs straight after a NATO conference and most questions from the selected list of reporters, which included a couple from Europe, had two parts, first part was about war/NATO/China etc and then second part was about his run for a 2nd term and issues about that.

He was on the senate foreign affairs committee for most of his 30 years in Congress, and was head of it for many years.

You could tell he knows his stuff on international affairs, even domestic affairs and has done a lot of stuff. As he said at one point, he probably has got more legislation thru the senate than any other president since LBJ. Both were long time senators who knew how the place worked and had long time personal relationships with people on both sides of the aisles.

Some of the international issues are complex, Biden gave long answers, but part of this causes him problems as he jumped between topics and issues that have to be confronted, but there is no segway and he runs them into each other with commas, rather than full stops. The question near the end about what he would have done different in the war in Gaza was a classic example of this. And after long answers he either had to ask what the second part was or the reporter who asked it had to repeat the question so Biden would address it.

Now if you are a political junkie, you quickly know what he is talking about as he jumps from one issue to another, and uses shorthand to explain things. Now part of him doing it is because he naturally has a stutter, but if you were a casual viewer, maybe will, maybe wont vote, it wouldn't have come across as fully coherent or even made sense at times.

Take out the Trump VP gaff it was a decent performance. But the sound bite will be the lead story tonight and tomorrow in US media. It wont change the concern of those calling for him to stand aside.
 
Ford Fairlane said:
I'm not sure who Bob Hawke is in this scenario. ;)

An Ipsos poll was held only 10 days ago and in hypothetical match ups, only Michelle Obama would beat Trump. And she's not even a Democrat politician.

View attachment 2045769


I thought this would be a Drover's Dog election and if Biden could actually hold himself together he would win because he's not Trump. But he is visibly disintegrating before our eyes and I overestimated the capacity of Americans to see Trump for the lying charlatan anti-democracy fraud he is.

I've seen interviews with Americans and they don't appear to be RWNJ's just everyday people and they're hurting from cost of living and they blame Biden. All the charges and findings against Trump don't appear to resonate with them at all. It's all about how he can make things better for me. This is the world we live in.

Joe should go, but it will make no difference to the result. The Dems don't have a candidate who has universal appeal or is high-enough profile to duke it out with Trump.

This is a cross of the Dem's own making, had they cultivated a high-profile alternative in the four years they had they would not be in this position. I wasn't joking about Clooney, even Dwayne The Rock Johnson would win the election, because American politics is little more than theatre sports now.
Click to expand...

Trump voters be like: release the Epstein files!!


Turns out trumps name is all over them and he raped a 14 year old and they don't care. I think he could literally **** a pig on live tv, black mirror style, and they'd still vote for him.
 

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