Is Damian Hardwick the right coach to lead Richmond forward ???

[CountryRace]

Rance is definitely not an A grader. More like a C grader. One of the most overrated defenders in the comp.

Rance is a C grader?

Who are the afl A and B grade key defenders?

 

[Tzatziki_Man]

Here's my ranking out of 100 for each player on Richmond list. This takes into account their form this year, previous years, finals series.
Below 40 = DELIST
40-49 = E
50-59 = D
60-64 = C+
65-69 = C
70-74 = B
75-79 = B+
80-84 = A
85-100 = A+


A+ Graders
NONE

A Grades
NONE

B+ Players
Alex Rance 76
Jack Riewoldt 75
Brett Deledio 75

B Players
Trent Cotchin 72
Dustin Martin 71
Shane Edwards 70

C+ Players
Anthony Miles 69
Brandon Ellis 68
Bachar Houli 68

C Players
Ivan Maric 64
Nick Vlastuin 64
Kam McIntosh 61
Ben Griffiths 61
Troy Chaplin 60
David Astbury 60

D+ Players
Nathan Foley 59
Reece Conca 58
Taylor Hunt 55

D Players
Chris Newman 54
Dylan Grimes 52

E Players
Tyrone Vickery 49
Steven Morris 48
Jake Bachelor 46
Ricky Petterd 40
Shaun Grigg 40

FAIL
Matt Dea 38
Matthew Thomas 29
Sam Lloyd 21
Nathan Gordon 20
Shaun Hampson 11

 

[Smoocher]

Have to agree with the pig on this one. Just because a player might be the best player in his team does not make him an a grader.
I consider Ablett, Pendles, Fyfe, Selwood A graders.
Not one Richmond player comes close to them.

 

[RedFury]

Cotchin isn't close, and if not for Murphy would be considered the worst captain in the league. Absolutely dreadful as a leader.

Agreed.

Bob is total rubbish!

 

[Big Fresh]

No they are not.

A-graders are - Selwood/Pendles/Gaj/Fyfe/Buddy/Ruff/Jacobs/Goldstein etc

The 3 tiger boys aren't equipped to wipe the bum of A-graders

Rance is easily a better player than Jacobs.

 

[Testekill]

Cotchin is nowhere near an A grader, I wouldn't even describe him as a B grader. You're scared every time that an A grader touches the ball as they can just make shit happen, B graders are still threatening and relatively dangerous. When the Bulldogs played Richmond earlier this year, I was never scared when Cotchin got the ball. He constantly kicks sideways or backwards and is never a threat.

 

[Fishfingahz]

Does a lack of form mean someone isn't considered an A-grader? Was Ablett not an A-grader prior to surgery?

He's barely had a touch for weeks.

 

[Thats Wright]

Reminds me of Shane Warne kissing Watson and Clarke on the peckers during commentary.

As much as Dunstall would be top 3 out there, surely he's taking the piss.

Have to wonder whether these commentators even slightly believe the stuff they say when flying the flag for ex colleagues.

 

[billy fragos]

What is an "A grader" since when are football players graded?

 

[Richo Man]

I really need to stop reading bigfooty. It really frustrates and upsets me, and it makes me hate my team even more.

 

[NMFC 1811]

Cotchin's disposal and decision making at the moment is way down but his attack on the ball and ability to get it in big moments is still A-Grade so in a way Dunstall is bang on.

Richmond are awful.

 

[NMFC 1811]

What is an "A grader" since when are football players graded?

There's always one

 

[garlic munchers]

People quickly forget how much of a shambles of a club we were prior to Hardwick taking over in 2010, we were in a far worse position at all levels than any other club has ever been since Fitzroy..
Cotchin coming equal second in the 2012 Brownlow medal says otherwise, though his game has gone backwards in the last two years since becoming captain.

And there it is, you nailed it without even knowing it.

Consistently of performance at an A grade level identifies an A grader.

 

[Spook]

Rance has been doing what he's doing since 2012, but people only started noticing towards the end of 2013. He is absolutely an A grader by your definition.

Cotchin nearly won a brownlow in 2012, and had a fantastic 2013. Poor start to 2014, but still finished incredibly strong. But another poor start to 2015 has definitely damaged his rep, no question. At his best he's an A grader, but he's playing like a B+ player at the moment, simply not damaging enough. But it's not entirely his fault either, as I will clarify below.

Martin, like Cotchin, has been a very good player for at least 3 seasons now. 2012, 2013, and 2014 he has continually improved, however like Cotchin, due to the absolutely shithouse coaching of Dimma, has had his natural game stifled somewhat. B+ player right now because of that.

Riewoldt is one of the very few players in the comp to have kicked 50 goals or more for 5 years straight. He is the epitome of consistent A grader talent when judged over the course of the last half-decade. I think he can still get better, don't get me wrong, but he's an A grader no question about it.

Deledio has been a consistently top line player in a mostly shit squad since 2005. He is an A grader that people don't rate because of the teams he's played in. If he was at the Cats/Hawks/Swans over the past 8-9 years, he'd be spoken about in a much different way. Definite A grader.

People outside of Richmond just assume the issue is the list, and lack of leadership, but in reality the list is actually in pretty great shape, and is still relatively young. We are MILES apart from a list such as Carlton's, that's for sure.

The issue is wholly and solely the putrid coaching of Damien Hardwick and his crew. The MOMENT he is gone, we will be right back up there.

Rance got beaten by a 4 gamer 2 weeks ago and had shockers the last 2 weeks. Are they A grade performances?

A graders don't blame the "Coach".

A graders don't have "poor starts" to seasons.

A graders are based on continual performance, not "potential"

Maybe they are Richmond A graders.... Almost but not quite there.... A bit like finishing 9th

 

[ReaperX]

Rance got beaten by a 4 gamer 2 weeks ago and had shockers the last 2 weeks. Are they A grade performances?

A graders don't blame the "Coach".

A graders don't have "poor starts" to seasons.

A graders are based on continual performance, not "potential"

Maybe they are Richmond A graders.... Almost but not quite there.... A bit like finishing 9th

See, this is why looking at a 2 or 3 week block of games and basing your opinion off that is dumb imo.

I'm not the arbiter of what constitutes being an "A grader", at the end of the day it's just my opinion, and people will have differing opinions to me, which is fine. However to give you an idea of the criteria I use, I try and look at performance/output over the last 2 or 3 years, maybe even more. Not the last 2 or 3 games. I would look at that, and then say an A grader is a player who's in the top 80 or so players in the league over that period of time.

Considering there's about 800 listed AFL players, that's roughly in the top 10% of the league. That averages to be about 4.4 players per team who are in that "A grade" category.

Now as we know, there are some teams who have more than that, such as Fremantle or a Hawthorn. And there are also teams that may only have 1 or 2 as well. But most teams, even middle of the road ones, would have 4-5 players who are stand outs, regardless of the lists around them.

For us (atm), that is Cotchin, Deledio, Rance, and Riewoldt.

I think someone like Brandon Ellis WILL be an A grader soon, however he's not there yet. As for Dustin Martin, he probably SHOULD be there, but as I said, the poor gameplan has stifled him somewhat. Go back and watch most of last year and in 2013, and you'll see what he can do. He was absolutely elite in winning forward 50 1 on 1's.

The guys I've mentioned here have established themselves over the past 3-4 years, and would fit into any team quite comfortably, even a team such as Fremantle who is unbeaten.

Finally, it IS actually possible for an A grader to have a bad couple of weeks still. Showing solid and consistent output for a 2 or 3 year block, and then having a bad few games, doesn't mean they're "out of the club", it just means they're in poor form, and every single player has had bad games before.

The only players that rarely have bad games are those AAA types, that not every club has. I'm talking the best 7 or 8 players in the competition here though, as in the Top 1%

So if your definition of an "A grader" how it's being used here, is that Top 1%, then you're absolutely right, nobody at Richmond is currently in that Top 7 or 8 players in the league.

But in the Top 80 or 90, and therefore say Top 10%? They definitely are mate.

 

[Spook]

See, this is why looking at a 2 or 3 week block of games and basing your opinion off that is dumb imo.

I'm not the arbiter of what constitutes being an "A grader", at the end of the day it's just my opinion, and people will have differing opinions to me, which is fine. However to give you an idea of the criteria I use, I try and look at performance/output over the last 2 or 3 years, maybe even more. Not the last 2 or 3 games. I would look at that, and then say an A grader is a player who's in the top 80 or so players in the league over that period of time.

Considering there's about 800 listed AFL players, that's roughly in the top 10% of the league. That averages to be about 4.4 players per team who are in that "A grade" category.

Now as we know, there are some teams who have more than that, such as Fremantle or a Hawthorn. And there are also teams that may only have 1 or 2 as well. But most teams, even middle of the road ones, would have 4-5 players who are stand outs, regardless of the lists around them.

For us (atm), that is Cotchin, Deledio, Rance, and Riewoldt.

I think someone like Brandon Ellis WILL be an A grader soon, however he's not there yet. As for Dustin Martin, he probably SHOULD be there, but as I said, the poor gameplan has stifled him somewhat. Go back and watch most of last year and in 2013, and you'll see what he can do. He was absolutely elite in winning forward 50 1 on 1's.

The guys I've mentioned here have established themselves over the past 3-4 years, and would fit into any team quite comfortably, even a team such as Fremantle who is unbeaten.

Finally, it IS actually possible for an A grader to have a bad couple of weeks still. Showing solid and consistent output for a 2 or 3 year block, and then having a bad few games, doesn't mean they're "out of the club", it just means they're in poor form, and every single player has had bad games before.

You make a good argument but IMO you only have to watch games, I watch pretty much every game every week, I love IQ. A graders don't have a couple of bad games every 6 week block, maybe in a season but not as often as these 4 have a bad couple of weeks. In regards to Riewoldt, he would be an A grader if he wasn't such as selfish player. Yes he has got better but spent the first 5 years of his career not being a team player..... That's hardly A grade type behaviour. And who would Cotchin or Delidio push out of Fremantles team? Yes I agree Riewoldt would get a game but what Barlow out for Delido? Neale? Lol.....
You have only beaten Freo once since the beginning of 2012 and they were missing Sandlinads, Pavlich and McPharlin that day.

You only need to watch games to notice who is and who isn't an A grader. You never hear Cotchin took that game apart or Delido turned that game a won it for them..... Not like Selwood does regularly, hodge, Ablett, Kennedy, jack, Mitchell, Lewis, priddis, Pendelbury, Watson etc

Does Cotchin and Delido impact games that contribute to their team winning or being competitive consistently? Also how do they go in big games and at important times in games. They don't do A grade type actions constantly do they?

Would an A grader kicked with or against the wind I an interstate away final on a windy day?

 

[didaksrightfoot]

Wow people have very short memories.
This is a team that won 9 straight last year to make it into the 8. They have started pretty poorly, but most clubs have been very inconsistent this year.

Unless you are being very picky, like saying A-graders are only top 5-10 in the game... otherwise I would say that at least Cotchin, Martin and Deledio are all "A graders", and any club would love to have them in their 22.

 

[ReaperX]

You make a good argument but IMO you only have to watch games, I watch pretty much every game every week, I love IQ. A graders don't have a couple of bad games every 6 week block, maybe in a season but not as often as these 4 have a bad couple of weeks. In regards to Riewoldt, he would be an A grader if he wasn't such as selfish player. Yes he has got better but spent the first 5 years of his career not being a team player..... That's hardly A grade type behaviour. And who would Cotchin or Delidio push out of Fremantles team? Yes I agree Riewoldt would get a game but what Barlow out for Delido? Neale? Lol.....
You have only beaten Freo once since the beginning of 2012 and they were missing Sandlinads, Pavlich and McPharlin that day.

You only need to watch games to notice who is and who isn't an A grader. You never hear Cotchin took that game apart or Delido turned that game a won it for them..... Not like Selwood does regularly, hodge, Ablett, Kennedy, jack, Mitchell, Lewis, priddis, Pendelbury, Watson etc

Does Cotchin and Delido impact games that contribute to their team winning or being competitive consistently? Also how do they go in big games and at important times in games. They don't do A grade type actions constantly do they?

Would an A grader kicked with or against the wind I an interstate away final on a windy day?

I read your entire post, and had formulated my response in my head to you... until I read that last line.

Obvious troll is obvious.

Honestly though, if I have to explain to you why Fremantle would take Cotchin and Deledio (or any of those players I mentioned), you mustn't watch THAT much AFL!

Richmond's issues over the past few seasons haven't been because we have no A graders, the issues have been that;

a) we have a clueless coach who keeps trying to turn players away from their natural positions and into players that they're just not (this year it's Morris as a small forward ) and...

b) outside of our Top 9 or 10 players, we lack quality depth. We have some meat and potato type players like Grigg, Petterd, etc, but we're lacking some solid "B" material at the moment. For us it's like 5 "A graders", maybe 7 "B's", and then 10 "D's".

A good side might have the same amount of top end A graders, like 5 or 6, but the bulk of their team will be those "B" rated players, and they might only have 2 or 3 "D's" in their best 22, which can play a specific role, and be carried the rest of the time.

For us to move forward as a group, we need a few of our B's to become A's, and a few of our D's to at least become C's... if that makes sense haha!

In other words, our issues stem from depth, not lack of A grade talent.

 

[Cynic]

Reminds me of Shane Warne kissing Watson and Clarke on the peckers during commentary.

As much as Dunstall would be top 3 out there, surely he's taking the piss.

Have to wonder whether these commentators even slightly believe the stuff they say when flying the flag for ex colleagues.

The problem is the bar of what constitutes journalism or special comments is so low in this sport no one bothers even trying.

 

[mcuzzy]

Wow people have very short memories.
This is a team that won 9 straight last year to make it into the 8. They have started pretty poorly, but most clubs have been very inconsistent this year.

Unless you are being very picky, like saying A-graders are only top 5-10 in the game... otherwise I would say that at least Cotchin, Martin and Deledio are all "A graders", and any club would love to have them in their 22.

I agree. Although take Martin out and put Rance and Riewoldt in. Martin shines when Deledio and/or Cotchin are being tagged.

 

[_Mike_]

I remember Port's captain Dom Cassisi a few years back said exactly the same thing.. Port are doing pretty well since and have A grade players in the mix now.

Its just one persons opinion.

 

[_DBF_]

Rance Deledio and Jack for mine are.
Jack has done a fantastic job considering the coach doesn't play him where he plays best and his teammates can't get it to him.

Rance holds the defensive fort on his own.

Our W/L record without Lids just shows his worth.

Edwards and Maric are B Graders.

On output Cotchin and Martin are B- on output.

 

[_DBF_]

Rance is definitely not an A grader. More like a C grader. One of the most overrated defenders in the comp.

Clearly you don't watch Richmond play, not that I blame you.

 

[PieLebo87]

I don't rate Richmond and don't believe they will make finals this year, but there has to be a logical reason behind their winning streak last season and where it came from.

 

[SdKfz 181]

I don't rate Richmond and don't believe they will make finals this year, but there has to be a logical reason behind their winning streak last season and where it came from.

I don't rate us either, but that 9 in a row has to be a fair effort for a side with no A-Graders..