Is Laidley the man?

[Urmoe]

The solution (if Dean isn't re-signed), is to hire a coach that would bring in members. If you get another 5000 members, as an example, you can pay the coach $1,000,000 and he costs the club nothing, because the 5000 members just paid (on average) his salary!

Are you advocating the signing of Ben Cousins as coach?

Just interested in who/what type of coach you think can bring us 5000 members? Sheedy?

 

[Rippednew1]

JB has already said we cant afford to pay a coach much more than what Laidley is on.

Id take it williams would need to take a massive pay cut to come over. I also take it that when Buckley is ready to coach and puts the word out, then there would be more than one club after his services.

If Laidley goes this year then its likely there will be 2 or 3 clubs in the running for him to take over. Which means a possible bidding war. If he is still lured by the almighty $$ then we arent in with a show.

Regarding any future coach - We dont want it to happen but while we are struggling financially there is always some doubt we will survive looking ahead. Would be a crucial point when deciding whether to ttake the job.

Even if we do survive, almost as damaging to lure a prospective highly credentialled coach is if there is any a hint of having to coach an afl team on a shoestring football budget. We will struggle to offer what other clubs can offer. Stats came out last week or two that our football budget for 2007 was a few million dollars less than most other clubs with West Coast or Sydney or someone about 5-6mil ahead of us. Another big consideration.

Our best chance is for everyone to sign up all their coaches before the end of the season and have our job as the only open position. Would give the club a better barganing position.

Whichever way I look at it, I think Wallace and Malthouse are gone. If so, I think we will end up with the slops.

Longmire will wait for Roos to leave, Hardwick will probably be happy playing second fiddle at a popular, financially stable club with a decent young team, and all other assistants at interstate clubs are probably getting more cash then what our head coach pays.

Not sure there will be much left other than the desperates. Hope we find a hidden gem. Wonder if Wallsy will be on our coaching appointment panel?

Urmoe Urmoe Urmoe.
Hardwick? Happy fiddling his twang at a "good" club?
Dont think we are as pathetic as you make out.

 

[Urmoe]

Urmoe Urmoe Urmoe.
Hardwick? Happy fiddling his twang at a "good" club?
Dont think we are as pathetic as you make out.

I know they told me not to reply to you but I can't help it, thats why you bait me because you know I will bite.

You don't think financial stability is a factor for a young guy already in a comfortable job?

Fair enough if there was an opportunity to earn a little extra in future contract reviews you would probably take a little less up front, but when we have head administrators saying our stadium deal is ruining the club, we are writing out cheques to play games of football, the president says we havent got a lot of cash to throw at a coach, official figures showing we spend bugger all on the footy department compared to other clubs, supporters not even bothering to turn up to watch home games, it really doesnt paint the best picture for a guy who is thinking about his first senior coaching position. And trying to assemble his own coaching team when he gets there. If he thinks he will struggle to get his mates over, then I reckon this will be a factor as well.

And of course he knows if he fails the test at his first club, then its probably curtains for his coaching career. And I think it would hurt a hell of a lot more knowing your failure was due to external factors like not being able to compete with facilities and services other clubs have access to, and being at a poorer club rather than your ability to coach a team.

Depends if struggling away as the Head Coach of a less financially stable club is more appealing to him than leaving the relative safety of merely assisting Clarkson at Hawthorn. I guess we wont have long to find out.

 

[Rippednew1]

I know they told me not to reply to you but I can't help it, thats why you bait me because you know I will bite.

You don't think financial stability is a factor for a young guy already in a comfortable job?

Fair enough if there was an opportunity to earn a little extra in future contract reviews you would probably take a little less up front, but when we have head administrators saying our stadium deal is ruining the club, we are writing out cheques to play games of football, the president says we havent got a lot of cash to throw at a coach, official figures showing we spend bugger all on the footy department compared to other clubs, supporters not even bothering to turn up to watch home games, it really doesnt paint the best picture for a guy who is thinking about his first senior coaching position. And trying to assemble his own coaching team when he gets there. If he thinks he will struggle to get his mates over, then I reckon this will be a factor as well.

And of course he knows if he fails the test at his first club, then its probably curtains for his coaching career. And I think it would hurt a hell of a lot more knowing your failure was due to external factors like not being able to compete with facilities and services other clubs have access to, and being at a poorer club rather than your ability to coach a team.

Depends if struggling away as the Head Coach of a less financially stable club is more appealing to him than leaving the relative safety of merely assisting Clarkson at Hawthorn. I guess we wont have long to find out.

You havent turned all pro Gold Coast on us have you?
Dont know why you think we are such an undesirable club to earn half a mill at.
There are a lot more than 2 or 3 decent coaches on the market and many ex North players that would do a much better job than Laidley.
Few points about your original post:
Choco has recently said he is willing to take a large pay cut at Port and the financial crisis will affect the coaches salaries. A lot of coaches would coach anywhere at anytime and North is a far more desirable club than a lot of clubs.
Not sure there would be many people willing to knock back 500k a year because the business was struggling. If anything its more of a challenge for a coach.
Our football department spending has increased a lot since 2007 so dragging that up paints a Zebra type scenario.
Longmire would coach at North if asked. Why wouldnt he? The handover process would only apply if North dont offer him the job.
Imo half the reason we arent pulling crowds atm is due to our predictable boring style of play, the coaches image and a lot of people dont want to get financially and emotionally involved with a side that has proven it falls into a big pile of shit when the pressure is on.
A new coach would bring 5000 more members, there would be a lot more people fed up with Laidley than the BF voice.
The expectations on JB to be an Eddie type president are too high. JB has flaws as a president and suffers from foot in mouth disease. He is a follower of men that has stood up(thankfully)and the clear strong leadership our club requires hopefully wont be lost by having a yes man following a failed coach down a hole. JB is an ex cricketer from the media, that seems to get off on visiting the clubrooms in the same way punter Ponting would. His views about our side and coach are alarming at best.
Knights and Lyon have proven you can just about grab any mug from any shit team and he will be a more rounded better suited coach than our professional assistant.

 

[Urmoe]

A new coach would bring 5000 more members, there would be a lot more people fed up with Laidley than the BF voice.

Chocco said he would take a cut to stay at Port. And he would still be making more than what we would offer.

As for the link between club-coach-supporters-memberships, it wasnt my intention to turn this thread into a debate about the finances of the club and number of members but our low membership and crowd numbers arent due to our coach. Maybe we have 'lower' crowd numbers due to losing, and that leads to the coach but you are talking maybe a few hundred, maybe a thousand people tops who thinks, ah **** it im not going today cause laidley is the coach.

At the same time do you make a decision at the start of the year to become a member due to the coach?

Look at Richmond. They have played shit football for the last 20-30 years and historically they can still get people through the gates. Ask yourself why? I dont want to bring up crap that should have been buried with the arrival of the new administration but think about what we did to the passionate supporter base in the mid/late 90's and for 10-12 years after that.

And I thought it was the coaches job to win games of footy. How wrong was I.

Anyway this thread is about whether Laidley is the right guy for the job. Im sorry I deviated from the original discussion.

 

[Better Loosen Up]

My answer is no.

Few key reasons, some of which have previously been stated:

7 years with no great success
Been comprehensively beaten in every finals series
List management is poor. It baffles me how he continues to persist with players like Power when in the past he has delisted much better players. Eg. Makepeace.
Our skill level is well below many of our oppposition. We still have guys in their late 20's - 30's that still can't consistently hit a target 20 meters away under no pressure.
Player relationships not great.
Never heard anything overly inspiring from press conferences
Failure to beat opposition teams by big margins and at the same time being beaten by big margins. Last year the second time against the Bulldogs is a great example. +/- 50 points at half time, win by +/- 20 points.
Lose games by big margins after being ahead at times by as much as 5 goals. Eg. Port round 22 LY.
A new coach would generate much needed excitement when potentially coming into a difficult time on the field.
I feel it's time for a fresh set of eyes and ideas.

All that said, I don't necessarily think Laidley is a bad coach. He has his strong points and I think he could do well at another club. Overall, I don't think he has failed during his time at our club but I think we are in need of change. I wish him all the best if it turns out he is not with us next year.

Some things I would like to see from a new coach is a strong focus on skill level, new game plan, focus on drafting quality midfielders and building a solid defense.

I think our premiership window for our current list could be open again in 3 - 4 years time which allows for the perfect time frame for a new coach to work towards achieving.

 

[Rippednew1]

Chocco said he would take a cut to stay at Port. And he would still be making more than what we would offer.

As for the link between club-coach-supporters-memberships, it wasnt my intention to turn this thread into a debate about the finances of the club and number of members but our low membership and crowd numbers arent due to our coach. Maybe we have 'lower' crowd numbers due to losing, and that leads to the coach but you are talking maybe a few hundred, maybe a thousand people tops who thinks, ah **** it im not going today cause laidley is the coach.

At the same time do you make a decision at the start of the year to become a member due to the coach?

Look at Richmond. They have played shit football for the last 20-30 years and historically they can still get people through the gates. Ask yourself why? I dont want to bring up crap that should have been buried with the arrival of the new administration but think about what we did to the passionate supporter base in the mid/late 90's and for 10-12 years after that.

And I thought it was the coaches job to win games of footy. How wrong was I.

Anyway this thread is about whether Laidley is the right guy for the job. Im sorry I deviated from the original discussion.

A lot of supporters are quite fickle about how they spend their entertainment money.
A 10% drop off in barrackers can create a "dead party" syndrome. Crowds can have momentum swings in the same way the team can. Our entertainment value is very low as is our heart breaking final product. I still go to games even though we definately wont win by 10 goals, surrender a big lead guaranteed, may get belted by rubbish sides, play 3 taggers, 4 ruckmen, duds who havent played well for months, have poor skills and we usually play negative boundary line scrap. Others may prefer the Bar 20 experience or Luna Park. Its supposed to be fun going to the football and its rare for a side to have a coach that cant win a final, cant get percentage, blames individual players and that has been around for 7 years. The feeling of hopelessness is very high atm, its lucky we are just satisfied to be in Melbourne. The rebuilding business is all well and good as long as you arent just starting all the failure right back at the beginning. Honestly seems rediculous to start a rebuild with someone who has failed to develop players so badly, has never proven they can coach a full season and holds more baggage than a Corby.

 

[Urmoe]

If someone is passionate then he/she will sign as members and turn up to games. We lost a lot of passion when we compromised our core supporterbase and went looking for cash interstate. I dont blame them totally for doing it but its done now. We took a risk, made a mistake (in hindsight) and we have now corrected it. It will take a long time to get them back, if ever.

Forget about all that other shit...ripped.

Laidley or no Laidley.

 

[Artichoke]

If someone is passionate then he/she will sign as members and turn up to games. We lost a lot of passion when we compromised our core supporterbase and went looking for cash interstate. I dont blame them totally for doing it but its done now. We took a risk, made a mistake (in hindsight) and we have now corrected it. It will take a long time to get them back, if ever.

Forget about all that other shit...ripped.

Laidley or no Laidley.

Well said Urmoe. I never forget making the journey to Canberra to watch NMFC play only to hear us be introduced as The Canberra Kangaroos.

 

[r_boy]

I feel sorry for the bloke he's had a lot of crap to put up with and did a good job in a very important year in the clubs history. HOWEVER, I don't think he is the man to take us to the promised land. His finals record is disgusting, hugging the boundary is a f***ing atrocious gameplan and playing guys like Power, Brown, Green etc is just roll your eyes kind of stuff. I suspect that quite a few football department staff may be responsible though.

 

[DarwinRoo]

His finals record? Don't you mean the clubs finals record? Should we consider moving on guys who can't step up a notch when it comes to September?

If we win a flag in the next 3 years it will be with the list that Laidley built whether he is at the club or not.

 

[Urmoe]

His finals record? Don't you mean the clubs finals record? Should we consider moving on guys who can't step up a notch when it comes to September?

If we win a flag in the next 3 years it will be with the list that Laidley built whether he is at the club or not.

That being said, if he hasnt got the game plan to go with the list, then he isnt worth jack as a coach.

If your scenario is proven correct, maybe a job in list management is his calling?

 

[DarwinRoo]

Possibly and it is funny how people say he can't develop anyone but Robbie Tarrant is already a gun and has never played a game yet. Is there something in the water at Arden St?

 

[Urmoe]

Possibly and it is funny how people say he can't develop anyone but Robbie Tarrant is already a gun and has never played a game yet. Is there something in the water at Arden St?

No water at arden street. Thats why ground is so hard. Laidleys fault.

 

[NICK_ROOBOY83]

Possibly and it is funny how people say he can't develop anyone but Robbie Tarrant is already a gun and has never played a game yet. Is there something in the water at Arden St?

With Tarrant it's more the name then actually knowing whether he will be anything.

I hope that he does turn out to be a star tho, but i have huge reservations.

 

[Urmoe]

With Tarrant it's more the name then actually knowing whether he will be anything.

I hope that he does turn out to be a star tho, but i have huge reservations.

Its not just the name Nick. Draft picks that high dont get drafted on name alone. He has shown something in the junior ranks. He moves beautifully for a taller fellow.

He must have tested well at draft camps too, although Im not privvy to these results cause I cant be bothered searching for them.

The only query is how he will adjust to senior football and whether his body will stay fit enough to get through some preseason work and then some senior matches, but just to suggest its his name that got him drafted I think is harsh.

Believe it or not the Tarrant name doesnt hold much value in AFL circles.

 

[DarwinRoo]

No water at arden street. Thats why ground is so hard. Laidleys fault.

I blame global warming which is also Laidley's fault and Im really starting to not like JB because it sounds like he doesn't think that Dean is responsible for climate change.

 

[r_boy]

His finals record? Don't you mean the clubs finals record? Should we consider moving on guys who can't step up a notch when it comes to September?

If we win a flag in the next 3 years it will be with the list that Laidley built whether he is at the club or not.

Pfft. Yes his finals record. He did coach in a number of finals didn't he? In every final played by the club bar one under him, we have failed dismally. Are you saying he carries no responsibility for that?

Laidley may have been responsible the direction of picks but that doesn't mean it would be 'his' list if we won a premiership. You need to be able to develop the list not just select them and in 7 years he has had time to do both yet it seems he is only just starting to get one aspect right. I'm not waiting around another 7 years before he learns how to develop a list.

 

[DarwinRoo]

Pfft. Yes his finals record. He did coach in a number of finals didn't he? In every final played by the club bar one under him, we have failed dismally. Are you saying he carries no responsibility for that?

Laidley may have been responsible the direction of picks but that doesn't mean it would be 'his' list if we won a premiership. You need to be able to develop the list not just select them and in 7 years he has had time to do both yet it seems he is only just starting to get one aspect right. I'm not waiting around another 7 years before he learns how to develop a list.

I am not saying that at all. He should bare some of the responsibility but not all. Adam Simpson was Captain for all those finals. Should we question the leadership qualities of Simmo because of the finals results?

The coach is made the scapegoat far too often and not just at North but at other clubs aswell. Richmond is a perfect example of alot of coaching changes but not much change in success at the club. Why? Because some players who aren't going to help the club move forward spend 10 years on the list yet never seem to come under any scrutiny.

 

[r_boy]

I am not saying that at all. He should bare some of the responsibility but not all. Adam Simpson was Captain for all those finals. Should we question the leadership qualities of Simmo because of the finals results?

The coach is made the scapegoat far too often and not just at North but at other clubs aswell. Richmond is a perfect example of alot of coaching changes but not much change in success at the club. Why? Because some players who aren't going to help the club move forward spend 10 years on the list yet never seem to come under any scrutiny.

I did initially say that I thought it wasn't just him but probably a few of the coaching staff.

I kind of agree about the players, it's just that when the whole team collectively is crap in finals I feel inclined to think that the trouble is from above. Everybody should be under scrutiny after those four finals losses though - both players and coaches.

I'd like to know which players you think haven't come under enough scrutiny DR?

 

[Joshen]

Like new/young players new/young coaches need to be given time until they reach what we would describe as a good coach. When you look at his record compared to other coaches at the same time of their coaching career he doesn't look half bad.

While I agree older players probably weren't the best choice after last week we have taken a step forward. We had such a young team and to only be outscored by Geelong by two goals.

I think Laidley should be given three more years and if we are not classified a top four team then North Melbourne Football Club and Dean Laidley should part ways.

 

[Zondor]

Yeah well Powers survives for another week and yah know who is to blame for that? Not Sam Powers. Yep Dean Laidleys. Mr Master Tactician aka Brainiac aka Mr Man Management.

The sooner the NMFC give this clown the flick the sooner our club can rebuild for success.

Zondor now knows why roosmad is roosmad.

 

[street_fighter]

I think one of the reasons why Laidley gets so much flak for his finals performances is because he tries so hard to avoid it by spinning. For example, after the Sydney game all he talked about was how crap the players were, but not once conceded that he also had a very very poor night. Atleast the players are willing to accept the blame where it is due, even though you are right and they don't have the same scrutiny.

 

[HongKongRoo]

Yeah well Powers survives for another week and yah know who is to blame for that? Not Sam Powers. Yep Dean Laidleys. Mr Master Tactician aka Brainiac aka Mr Man Management.

He even acknowledged that he played Harris for too long last year when he was down on form, now he pulls this s#$t.

 

[Rippednew1]

Darwinism comparisons to Richmond 10,000, club balancing extinction, priceless.
Lets sign JYD up for 3 years and and just support the club(West Sydney that is).