Opinion Is Our Flag Window Shut?

[pjfairbairn]

We're still the highest scoring team in the competition, despite not having any real clarity about which KPFs demand selection in our forward line and our (mostly) awful distribution inside 50.

We're the 4th best team for points against, despite May playing at least 20-30% lower standard than last couple of years, Lever missing matches, taking Petty out of the backlne 3-4 weeks ago, no Salem til now.

It's too early to call on this year, Oliver's string will be a massive barometer for us, but I think we are definitely in the top 4 teams in the comp and that's enough to be in with a shot. Getting a finals win is critical after last year. We'll give ourselves every chance.

 

[stEdy]

We're still the highest scoring team in the competition, despite not having any real clarity about which KPFs demand selection in our forward line and our (mostly) awful distribution inside 50.

Imagine if we still had Hogan

 

[A11dAtP0w3R]

We're still the highest scoring team in the competition, despite not having any real clarity about which KPFs demand selection in our forward line and our (mostly) awful distribution inside 50.

We're the 4th best team for points against, despite May playing at least 20-30% lower standard than last couple of years, Lever missing matches, taking Petty out of the backlne 3-4 weeks ago, no Salem til now.

It's too early to call on this year, Oliver's string will be a massive barometer for us, but I think we are definitely in the top 4 teams in the comp and that's enough to be in with a shot. Getting a finals win is critical after last year. We'll give ourselves every chance.

Highest scoring team and 4th best for points against, helps with the opposition we have played.
I mean, Hawthorn and Carlton who cant kick a score for shit have beaten West Coast by 100 and we won by 10 goals, the Swans 30 point win we were all up and about for (including myself).... impressive?

Simply put, I think those particular stats are full of shit. 1-3 against the top 9 sides sends off alarm bells similar to last year.

Are we more attacking than last year and better to watch? Yes. But its not the improvement some of us thought it looked like a month or a few weeks ago.

 

[Scythe94]

Highest scoring team and 4th best for points against, helps with the opposition we have played.
I mean, Hawthorn and Carlton who cant kick a score for s**t have beaten West Coast by 100 and we won by 10 goals, the Swans 30 point win we were all up and about for (including myself).... impressive?

Simply put, I think those particular stats are full of s**t. 1-3 against the top 9 sides sends off alarm bells similar to last year.

Are we more attacking than last year and better to watch? Yes. But its not the improvement some of us thought it looked like a month or a few weeks ago.

To be fair, it was 50 and they weren't missing half a team like they are now. But your point is still reasonable – we haven't handled good sides well for 18 months now, and the warning signs for our form were very much there during the cushy part of our draw (GC game, third quarter v Hawthorn, three quarters of the Richmond game, first half v WC).

 

[demondavey]

It’s not shut but we need a bold overhaul of effort with some tough calls made on players that underperform. Goodwin has his favourites. I think that has to change. We are going to really have to start to think beyond Gawn, May and McDonald. Next year may look very different for Gawn and May.

I just want to see these blokes play like it was 2021. I can’t help to feel that comes down to effort. Be great if they all thought that 2 flag medals is better than 1. If we get top 4 and can somehow pull apart Collingwood or they crap themselves, we may get a home ground GF against Brisbane or Port.

 

[autocol]

Imagine if we still had Hogan

If we had Hogan, we wouldn't have May, and if we didn't have May, we wouldn't have a premiership, so... no thanks!

 

[Major Colvin]

happy to see how the rest of the year pans out - but it comes to pass that we just to continue to beat up against bottom teams whilst failing against top 8 teams I think Goodwin has to be put under considerable scrutiny.

Goodwin certainly deserves credit for 2021, but he has never been the best game day tactician. Even the 2021GF, which is odd when you look at the 74 point margin - but Goodwin was actually being soundly beaten by Beveridge until 10mins in the 3rd until Oliver and Petracca went on a frenzy.

We've just seen too many times with this team - they look fantastic when things are falling their way, but when seriously challenged they seize up and there doesnt seem to be much trust and composure amongst the group.

 

[Dancing Potato]

Need to have a serious talk about Viney, Brayshaw and Salem if we want to get our balance right and contend again. Two of these players should have been on the trade table and one of them had to be Viney. He can't go forward. He can't go back. He can only bullock around the contest, which is what we have Oliver and Trac for.

We only need one of Gus or Salem at HB. I'd prefer Gus, but frankly I don't really care that much which one it is.

Our tall forward situation is still a mess too. So many options, but so many of them are absolute dogshit - Brown, TMac, Schache, Smith, Tomlinson...

I like having Petty forward, but May and Lever are both down on previous output as well. How do we solve both of these issues with our current options? Then consider the medium term future with May and Hibberd retiring...

 

[The Dr]

Need to have a serious talk about Viney, Brayshaw and Salem if we want to get our balance right and contend again. Two of these players should have been on the trade table and one of them had to be Viney. He can't go forward. He can't go back. He can only bullock around the contest, which is what we have Oliver and Trac for.

We only need one of Gus or Salem at HB. I'd prefer Gus, but frankly I don't really care that much which one it is.

Our tall forward situation is still a mess too. So many options, but so many of them are absolute dogshit - Brown, TMac, Schache, Smith, Tomlinson...

I like having Petty forward, but May and Lever are both down on previous output as well. How do we solve both of these issues with our current options? Then consider the medium term future with May and Hibberd retiring...

Excellent post, and absolutely fair.

I think trading Salem or Gus makes absolute sense. Big second half of the year coming up for them both. They will never trade Viney for cultural reasons, and in a weird way he'd be one of the first id pick in a final, despite his shortcomings.

If we don't win it this year, we may have to take a step back and trade/cut some senior players to take some big step forwards in later years with some quality draftees.


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[markm106]

TBH I think it’s too early to suggest the premiership window is shut. We aren’t exactly an old list. Goody has this year done what he wouldn’t do Last year and that’s make some changes. To style and personnel. Whether we can win another flag time will tell but we’re in the window. Not to say we can’t make more list changes. Maybe add some speed to the team.
It seems our forward structure is not set. We can’t bring in too much height with Gawn and Grundy but JVR and Petty with Fritsch and a ruck would be fine. Although I think Petty is a defender he played really well prior to injuring himself. Yes it was hawthorn. Tmac and BBB are nearing the end and we need to get that mix right Soon. But we don’t have a problem scoring.

 

[danster168]

Need to have a serious talk about Viney, Brayshaw and Salem if we want to get our balance right and contend again. Two of these players should have been on the trade table and one of them had to be Viney. He can't go forward. He can't go back. He can only bullock around the contest, which is what we have Oliver and Trac for.

We only need one of Gus or Salem at HB. I'd prefer Gus, but frankly I don't really care that much which one it is.

Our tall forward situation is still a mess too. So many options, but so many of them are absolute dogshit - Brown, TMac, Schache, Smith, Tomlinson...

I like having Petty forward, but May and Lever are both down on previous output as well. How do we solve both of these issues with our current options? Then consider the medium term future with May and Hibberd retiring...

We knew that our fwd line was a dogs breakfast last year yet during the trade period we prioritised Grundy and offered him 600k a year for 5 years, which equates to 1 million a season if he is cooked beyond 32 years old. The argument can definitely be made that there were no key forwards available but we were so cashed up that I think we could've squeezed a key forward out of somewhere.

Regarding Viney, yeah he can't play anywhere else but at least he bleeds for the jumper. The same can't be said for a lot of our players at the moment.

May and Lever are definitely down on previous output and we do have to think about life after May and that's why we targeted key positions in last years trade period.

I still think that almost irrespective of position we need guys with footy smarts. Too many players doing bone head things at the moment. We could do with some more speed across the park also.

 

[00Stinger]

Premiership window shut? Lol

This is a funny board. Fairly happy when we are shit and then pretty unhappy when we are good

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[stEdy]

We knew that our fwd line was a dogs breakfast last year yet during the trade period we prioritised Grundy and offered him 600k a year for 5 years, which equates to 1 million a season if he is cooked beyond 32 years old. The argument can definitely be made that there were no key forwards available but we were so cashed up that I think we could've squeezed a key forward out of somewhere.

Regarding Viney, yeah he can't play anywhere else but at least he bleeds for the jumper. The same can't be said for a lot of our players at the moment.

May and Lever are definitely down on previous output and we do have to think about life after May and that's why we targeted key positions in last years trade period.

I still think that almost irrespective of position we need guys with footy smarts. Too many players doing bone head things at the moment. We could do with some more speed across the park also.

We are the highest scoring team in the league with the best percentage too - this is what this board wanted wasn't it? More attacking footy?

Those numbers might be a tad inflated due to who we've played but we are 10 games in which is a solid sample size.

Port beat us on the weekend with Ollie Lord, Finlayson and Burton as their marking forwards.

 

[Toump Ass]

I remember reading that Viney asked Goodwin if he should take someone out in the grand final, Simon said "no thanks Jack". No way you trade someone willing to do that

 

[dazzledavey36]

I'd trade Brayshaw in a heartbeat.

 

[stEdy]

I remember reading that Viney asked Goodwin if he should take someone out in the grand final, Simon said "no thanks Jack". No way you trade someone willing to do that

Trade Goody after that statement. AS IF you don't take someone out in the Granny, especially as our last Granny we had Green and Simmonds taken out.

 

[Crusty Demon]

We are the highest scoring team in the league with the best percentage too - this is what this board wanted wasn't it? More attacking footy?

Those numbers might be a tad inflated due to who we've played but we are 10 games in which is a solid sample size.

Port beat us on the weekend with Ollie Lord, Finlayson and Burton as their marking forwards.

We've really had a decent run with who we've played. Next 4 games going to be very telling. Tricky games against Freo/Blues then 2 powerhouses in Pies/Cats.

Really don't think we're looking great anywhere on the ground, but because we've had an easy draw, like last year, we win enough games to avoid scrutiny. Our backline looks more shaky. May isn't anywhere near his best and our best defender is a bloke who could have retired after our premiership. Our forwardline is a mess. They don't lead, can't take contested marks and are now mostly out of form. And unbelievably with Gawn/Grundy/Oliver/Trac/Viney we seemingly can't beat our opponents at clearances or stoppages.

Goody/Yze need to be more daring. Leave Gus back, move Riv into a permanent mid role, put Koz into the midfield more, put Salem or Bowey across half forward and use Harmes or JJ as a defensive tagger on opponents mids. Try Joel Smith, JVR and Gawn down forward maybe? That's 3 blokes who contest in the air at least. Maybe bring Disco in and leave him in. Give him time like JVR. I don't know, try something different that might make the better teams think a bit. It all seems vanilla again.

 

[Dancing Potato]

Just realised I'll be out of the country for the entire finals series anyway so yeah, **** it, window closed. We're ****ed. Write us off.

Hope we don't even make finals.

Let the tanking commence.

 

[LarryDavidNeitz]

Need to have a serious talk about Viney, Brayshaw and Salem if we want to get our balance right and contend again. Two of these players should have been on the trade table and one of them had to be Viney. He can't go forward. He can't go back. He can only bullock around the contest, which is what we have Oliver and Trac for.

We only need one of Gus or Salem at HB. I'd prefer Gus, but frankly I don't really care that much which one it is.

Our tall forward situation is still a mess too. So many options, but so many of them are absolute dogshit - Brown, TMac, Schache, Smith, Tomlinson...

I like having Petty forward, but May and Lever are both down on previous output as well. How do we solve both of these issues with our current options? Then consider the medium term future with May and Hibberd retiring...

Our list management has been generally great but when you think about it it's a fairly huge flaw to have an otherwise premiership-capable list and then a choice of Tmac, Brown, Shache and Jefferson to partner JVR.

Or perhaps you have to put the blame on Goody for running with a three talls plus Fritsch forward structure when it was clear before pre-season started we don't have the personnel for it. As many have said you could put together a forward line with JVR, Gawn, Fritch, Kosi, Chandler, ANB/Laurie which arguably looks stronger than what we're running with.

 

[Crusty Demon]

Our list management has been generally great but when you think about it it's a fairly huge flaw to have an otherwise premiership-capable list and then a choice of Tmac, Brown, Shache and Jefferson to partner JVR.

Or perhaps you have to put the blame on Goody for running with a three talls plus Fritsch forward structure when it was clear before pre-season started we don't have the personnel for it. As many have said you could put together a forward line with JVR, Gawn, Fritch, Kosi, Chandler, ANB/Laurie which arguably looks stronger than what we're running with.

We really needed another forward to stand up. Brown and TMac clearly haven't. Still hope for Petty. I like what he did against Hawthorn. Showed real signs he could be the answer. But It's leaving us vulnerable down back with May nowhere near his best and Lever not always able to play that 3rd man up role. JVR looks like he needs a rest too and with Petty out in the meantime, not sure we can afford to rest him. Going to be very interesting to see how Goody handles the next month which is real tricky. Potential to make or break our season. Hunter out for a week, Oliver injured, Trac looks sore, Petty out injured, Backline a bit out of sorts, the ruck duo not dominating like we'd hoped. Let's not forget the same poor delivery to the F50 and the fact we can't win clearances with our superstar midfield. But, somehow we are still in the 4, so we have runs on the board, so maybe some tweaking and finding of form from certain players could still give us a heartbeat. Need some big scalps though. Pies or Cats would be nice.

 

[Dancing Potato]

Tomo rupturing his ACL has been a bit of a blow. He was just finding form as a very solid key defender. He has never fully recovered and now has zero movement capability.

On the bright side it meant Petty got a proper chance again. But what I wouldn't give to have that fully fit Tomo down back to give May a chop out and leave Petty permanently forward.

 

[Crusty Demon]

I think we are 18th for clearances this year. I know Hawks and Tigers weren't great at clearances during their reign, but 18th when we have Gawn, Grundy, Trac, Oliver and Viney is pretty disastrous. The pressure coming out of a stoppage would be pretty low also. No wonder our back half is feeling the pinch this year. Need to sort this out. Get Riv and Koz on ball more. Both have good skill and decision making also which can only help moving the ball forward. After Round 1 where Koz dominated in the middle, I thought he'd be playing more minutes in there, but Goody has other ideas.

 

[Bluelegs]

I think we are 18th for clearances this year. I know Hawks and Tigers weren't great at clearances during their reign, but 18th when we have Gawn, Grundy, Trac, Oliver and Viney is pretty disastrous. The pressure coming out of a stoppage would be pretty low also. No wonder our back half is feeling the pinch this year. Need to sort this out. Get Riv and Koz on ball more. Both have good skill and decision making also which can only help moving the ball forward. After Round 1 where Koz dominated in the middle, I thought he'd be playing more minutes in there, but Goody has other ideas.

Is this based on pure numbers or percentage of stoppages won?

 

[schmuttt]

I think we are 18th for clearances this year. I know Hawks and Tigers weren't great at clearances during their reign, but 18th when we have Gawn, Grundy, Trac, Oliver and Viney is pretty disastrous. The pressure coming out of a stoppage would be pretty low also. No wonder our back half is feeling the pinch this year. Need to sort this out. Get Riv and Koz on ball more. Both have good skill and decision making also which can only help moving the ball forward. After Round 1 where Koz dominated in the middle, I thought he'd be playing more minutes in there, but Goody has other ideas.

Ranked 13th for difference per game average, ahead of GWS/Adelaide/Richmond/WC/Sydney. Certainly an issue though when the oppo are just walking it out.

 

[Jamurp]

I think we are 18th for clearances this year. I know Hawks and Tigers weren't great at clearances during their reign, but 18th when we have Gawn, Grundy, Trac, Oliver and Viney is pretty disastrous. The pressure coming out of a stoppage would be pretty low also. No wonder our back half is feeling the pinch this year. Need to sort this out. Get Riv and Koz on ball more. Both have good skill and decision making also which can only help moving the ball forward. After Round 1 where Koz dominated in the middle, I thought he'd be playing more minutes in there, but Goody has other ideas.

It’s not only losing the clearances but how we lose them, the oppo isn’t getting hack kicks out of a pack, they’re walking it out the centre with a heap of space, it’s infuriating to watch, the 3 goals we coughed up v Hawthorn at the start if that third quarter was diabolical.

Unless we turn that around somewhat then we’re no chance of genuinely challenging.