Opinion Is Our Flag Window Shut?

[Crusty Demon]

Is this based on pure numbers or percentage of stoppages won?

Ha, no idea. I heard it on a podcast. But looking at the AFL stats, it looks like we are officially 16th, but literally only 1 clearance ahead of Richmond and Saints in equal last. Pretty dire.

I think King was rabbiting on about our D50 stoppage work, which I think he was saying we were last in the comp.

 

[Crusty Demon]

It’s not only losing the clearances but how we lose them, the oppo isn’t getting hack kicks out of a pack, they’re walking it out the centre with a heap of space, it’s infuriating to watch, the 3 goals we coughed up v Hawthorn at the start if that third quarter was diabolical.

Unless we turn that around somewhat then we’re no chance of genuinely challenging.

Looking at the names in the middle against Hawthorn, you'd think they were no chance of winning a stoppage. But Mitchell has worked hard with those kids in regards to clearances and stoppages and they edged us slightly for the game. They are actually in the top 8 for stoppages in the comp. Our mix clearly isn't working in this area. Will be interesting to see how Goody goes about it without Oliver for a couple of weeks. Is Trac holding back at stoppages due to Oliver being there? Will he try Koz or Rivers or go defensive with JJ or Harmes? Who knows, but it's an area we can definitely improve in.

 

[Lampers]

Ha, no idea. I heard it on a podcast. But looking at the AFL stats, it looks like we are officially 16th, but literally only 1 clearance ahead of Richmond and Saints in equal last. Pretty dire.

Tactically Melbourne are willing to concede the around the ground clearances because Melbourne choose to have an extra back to generate turnovers. The opposition generally have an extra at the clearance which is why they win so many of them. But Melbourne should at least break even in centre bounce clearance as that’s equal numbers.

2018 the game plan was all about clearance and the problem there is if you lose clearance you’re stuffed. Now the gameplan is all about turnover.

Basing the gameplan off turnover is better in the long term because there are more turnovers in a game than there are clearance opportunities. You also need more talent to win clearances and a bit of luck too, turnovers can be caused through effort and pressure which just requires attitude and fitness.

The problem I have is how easily the clearances are conceded at times. Sure, concede them overall, but at least be a bit defensive and make it hard for the opposition to get clean clearance.

Against Collingwood, who basically play two or more extras at the contest (by risking their backline numbers so they are very vulnerable when their outnumber loses the contest) I can see it being an absolute slaughter. Collingwood will win 80% of ground contests and then just handpass and chip forward to find holes in Melbourne’s backline who are instead setting up for the long kick in.

I get Goodwin and co. backing in their gameplan, but they at least need a way to adjust to premiership contender team like Collingwood who won’t fall for the long kicks into their forward line trap.

 

[Dancing Potato]

Tactically Melbourne are willing to concede the around the ground clearances because Melbourne choose to have an extra back to generate turnovers. The opposition generally have an extra at the clearance which is why they win so many of them. But Melbourne should at least break even in centre bounce clearance as that’s equal numbers.

2018 the game plan was all about clearance and the problem there is if you lose clearance you’re stuffed. Now the gameplan is all about turnover.

Basing the gameplan off turnover is better in the long term because there are more turnovers in a game than there are clearance opportunities. You also need more talent to win clearances and a bit of luck too, turnovers can be caused through effort and pressure which just requires attitude and fitness.

The problem I have is how easily the clearances are conceded at times. Sure, concede them overall, but at least be a bit defensive and make it hard for the opposition to get clean clearance.

Against Collingwood, who basically play two or more extras at the contest (by risking their backline numbers so they are very vulnerable when their outnumber loses the contest) I can see it being an absolute slaughter. Collingwood will win 80% of ground contests and then just handpass and chip forward to find holes in Melbourne’s backline who are instead setting up for the long kick in.

I get Goodwin and co. backing in their gameplan, but they at least need a way to adjust to premiership contender team like Collingwood who won’t fall for the long kicks into their forward line trap.

I think this is exactly how Collingwood will tear us a new one. Will need to make some adjustments to our gameplay if we want a serious chance on King's Birthday.

 

[Daemon]

You guys raise some good points about clearances and turnovers. The other thing is, if we drop off the pressure like we have on a number of occasions in the games we have lost, we generate a lot less turnovers and just look like we are treading water with no plan B.

For me the biggest concern at the moment is lack of maintaining pressure for long periods, the forwards pressing too far up the ground and then there being no options when we do get the turnover, and the ever-present diabolical forward 50 entries.

I'm not even that concerned about the ins and outs. We have the talent and depth, but it's poor planning and execution on the day that is seeing us lose games to the contenders.

 

[Crusty Demon]

You guys raise some good points about clearances and turnovers. The other thing is, if we drop off the pressure like we have on a number of occasions in the games we have lost, we generate a lot less turnovers and just look like we are treading water with no plan B.

For me the biggest concern at the moment is lack of maintaining pressure for long periods, the forwards pressing too far up the ground and then there being no options when we do get the turnover, and the ever-present diabolical forward 50 entries.

I'm not even that concerned about the ins and outs. We have the talent and depth, but it's poor planning and execution on the day that is seeing us lose games to the contenders.

Yep. Losing clearances is frustrating with the names we have in there, but the pressure across the ground is what has seemingly dropped away. Teams have proven you can win premierships even have dynasties without being strong at clearances, but it's the pressure that has to be through the roof to cover that. Richmond were exceptional at this. Unfortunately we've dropped away in this.

 

[danster168]

I think this is exactly how Collingwood will tear us a new one. Will need to make some adjustments to our gameplay if we want a serious chance on King's Birthday.

I can't see us getting within 6 goals of the pies on current form.

 

[pjfairbairn]

Tactically Melbourne are willing to concede the around the ground clearances because Melbourne choose to have an extra back to generate turnovers. The opposition generally have an extra at the clearance which is why they win so many of them. But Melbourne should at least break even in centre bounce clearance as that’s equal numbers.

2018 the game plan was all about clearance and the problem there is if you lose clearance you’re stuffed. Now the gameplan is all about turnover.

Basing the gameplan off turnover is better in the long term because there are more turnovers in a game than there are clearance opportunities. You also need more talent to win clearances and a bit of luck too, turnovers can be caused through effort and pressure which just requires attitude and fitness.

The problem I have is how easily the clearances are conceded at times. Sure, concede them overall, but at least be a bit defensive and make it hard for the opposition to get clean clearance.

Against Collingwood, who basically play two or more extras at the contest (by risking their backline numbers so they are very vulnerable when their outnumber loses the contest) I can see it being an absolute slaughter. Collingwood will win 80% of ground contests and then just handpass and chip forward to find holes in Melbourne’s backline who are instead setting up for the long kick in.

I get Goodwin and co. backing in their gameplan, but they at least need a way to adjust to premiership contender team like Collingwood who won’t fall for the long kicks into their forward line trap.

This is outstanding Lampers. If you don't work in footy, you should.

 

[Lampers]

This is outstanding Lampers. If you don't work in footy, you should.

Meh, I just listen to and watch lots of footy content. I didn’t work it all out for myself.

 

[LarryDavidNeitz]

The other problem with setting up to be a turnover team is our ball movement from defence is rubbish against any half organised defence.

We rarely go fast on a turnover and it is always down the wing hoping Hunter and Langdon are free over top and then we have an overlap.

If that’s not on we just hold the ball until two of our talls are standing on the wing waiting for a contest they usually lose.

We still rely on 10 minute periods of total dominance at clearance to generate most of our scores, but the difference to 2021 is that decent teams are scoring heavily on us when we’re not dominating the centre square.

 

[Dancing Potato]

Just realised I'll be out of the country for the entire finals series anyway so yeah, * it, window closed. We're ****ed. Write us off.

Hope we don't even make finals.

Let the tanking commence.

I love it when a plan comes together.

 

[Deelighted]

 

[stEdy]

Narrm's window confirmed shut

 

[The Dr]

We have serious issues. Will probably make finals but I reckon we need a good list clean out. We have a good hand at this year's draft and I think we need to trade a couple of senior players, retire a few, probably go backwards or tread water for a year or two and then go again.

That also requires an accompanying change of coaching structure/mindset.


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[Daemon]

We have serious issues. Will probably make finals but I reckon we need a good list clean out. We have a good hand at this year's draft and I think we need to trade a couple of senior players, retire a few, probably go backwards or tread water for a year or two and then go again.

That also requires an accompanying change of coaching structure/mindset.


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Agree we need to make some changes, but the biggest changes we need are in the coaches box. We have a talented list, this area is not the major problem.

 

[Tulip]

This list should contend for the next 2-3 years in theory. We play as far less than the sum of our parts.

 

[Tulip]

Agree we need to make some changes, but the biggest changes we need are in the coaches box. We have a talented list, this area is not the major problem.

There would have to be a cultural issue at play too. David King just echoed what many of us said when nobody stood up for Max last week, even if they remonstrated when the ball was next out. Goodwin: "I like David, but he's had a shocker here". Gus and Gawny still don't see the irony in preaching the line about "never saying a bad word about a teammate" whilst taking the piss publicly out of someone every week.

 

[Daemon]

There would have to be a cultural issue at play too. David King just echoed what many of us said when nobody stood up for Max last week, even if they remonstrated when the ball was next out. Goodwin: "I like David, but he's had a shocker here". Gus and Gawny still don't see the irony in preaching the line about "never saying a bad word about a teammate" whilst taking the piss publicly out of someone every week.

Oh it's massively cultural. The guys look morbid out there. No smiling, going through the motions sort of stuff. Gawn has looked grim faced all year, May just looks angry all the time, Lever is a shell of himself.

They don't look like they are having fun or enjoying each other's company.

And this comes back to the coach - he sets the tone here. Maybe they need another meeting at Drovers Run, have some beers with Goody, and play the pokies. I'm dead serious about this too - they need to reconnect in the bye round.

 

[Tulip]

Oh it's massively cultural. The guys look morbid out there. No smiling, going through the motions sort of stuff. Gawn has looked grim faced all year, May just looks angry all the time, Lever is a shell of himself.

They don't look like they are having fun or enjoying each other's company.

These examples are a huge issue because these are our experienced leaders. ****ing drive it yourselves. They just don't look hungry compared to those around us.

 

[Daemon]

These examples are a huge issue because these are our experienced leaders. ******* drive it yourselves. They just don't look hungry compared to those around us.

Yep, they all look satiated after our big breakthrough premiership.

Good job boys, now get over it and win it again, that's what you play footy for. Otherwise, stop drinking your bathwater, retire, and let some hungry kids into the team.

 

[Johnny Karate]

I know that it wasn’t us, we’re working incredibly hard, boys were tired, training loads, last year doesn’t count, 8 day break, travel, Clarry hurt, MCG hoodoo, facts and the ghost of Tony Modra.

However, 13/25 suggests we’re performing about as well as a 6-10th placed side over the past year. Until someone apart from Petracca and Oliver play at AA level we’ll continue to be an average side.

 

[mrmonkey]

Yep suddenly slipping to 7-4 is looking pretty close to the 6-6 we finished off last year, lose next week and we are basically there.

 

[Scythe94]

 

[danster168]

Flag window is well and truly shut. Need to focus on next season. The ladder is irrelevant. The lack of overall skills by about 20 blokes is mind boggling. The lack of grit into Luke Jackson

9

Luke Jackson

Age

23

Ht

199cm

Wt

102kg

Pos.

F/R

Career

Season

Last 5

D

8.3

2star

K

3.3

1star

HB

5.0

4star

M

1.5

2star

T

1.0

3star

G

0.3

3star

D

8.3

2star

K

3.3

1star

HB

5.0

3star

M

1.5

2star

T

1.0

2star

G

0.3

3star

D

8.3

3star

K

3.3

2star

HB

5.0

4star

M

1.5

2star

T

1.0

3star

G

0.3

3star

was pathetic and shows how soulless we are playing right now.

 

[A11dAtP0w3R]

Its almost as if those wins vs Norf, Richmond, Hawthorn, West Coast and Sydney weren't that impressive in retrospect. Wow, I didnt see this coming. Shocked at the past two weeks, genuinely thought we were a premiership threat after that huge win vs the always a premiership threat every season Gold Coast Suns. Dont tell me that wasn't actually impressive either? I dont believe you.