Mid East Israel declare war after Hamas attack III

[leon123]

yes but that is not what macro means.....

Macro means overall IE large scale......

This is talking about specific small-scale instances ergo Micro.

that was my point............

my point stands there is macro difference to someone bullying or asbusing someone based on their ethnicity.

I apologise for not clarifying macro v's micro.... simply interpretation of a subjective word isnt it?

 

[HirdsTheWord]

I apologise for not clarifying macro v's micro.... simply interpretation of a subjective word isnt it?

all good. accepted

well i tried to tell you but you jumped down my throat rofl.

No offence but if you're going to tell me to read sentences carefully, you could also take the time to type them correctly!

lets move on now.

 

[Sarcoidevo]

I gunna blame the Babylonians and the Romans

 

[ferball]

I gunna blame the Babylonians and the Romans

You should blame Likud politicians and their far right political allies cos they are the living people actually responsible for this situation.

 

[Blue1980]

If its about Jews vs Muslims then let them fight it out so they can finally end this mess. Winner takes the land. Loser is dead

It isn’t about that. It’s all about money power and influence, religion is used as a tool.

 

[Blue1980]

It will be interesting how Israel retaliate against Iran. Jordan have already denied them air space and that will not change. Israel could simply ignore that like they ignore every other international law and convention I guess - there is not much Jordan could do about it.

But I doubt Iran have used their best stuff yet either. You cannot defeat Iran. You can hurt them. You can bomb the shit out of them (depending on what Israel has left). But they cannot defeat them militarily just like you cannot defeat Afghanistan.

There is no possible way the USA join this conflict. They simply won't. They achieved SFA in Iraq. And they achieved zero in Afghanistan. And this conflict is going to be against Hamas, Hizballah, Houthi's and Iran with the threat of more joining and Russia doing whatever it can to cause instability in a completely asymmetrical war.

And for what?

There is no way the USA will allow body bags with US soldiers in them or place significant USA assets in harms way when the bigger picture is China.

Then there are all the logistic issues. How does Israel even get stuff to Israel if this gets real?

And all this while Trump is running an election campaign with no wars being a significant part of his platform.

Israel have a massive military advantage until they don't. Then what?

If Trump got power and sent 3 million troops to Iran, the MAGA could would be convinced it was necessary.

They aren’t anti war, they are for whatever trump says.

 

[Geelong_Sicko]

I gunna blame the Babylonians and the Romans

You should blame Likud politicians and their far right political allies cos they are the living people actually responsible for this situation.

There is the past, which gives foundation to the structures we build, for good or bad. The present? We can change those structures. Ugly structure can be dismantled. Northern Ireland's Good Friday Agreement took a wrecking ball to so many hideous structures of the past. Some still remain. Anger and turmoil are never far away but it's on the backburner for now.

Both Likud and Hamas had the opportunity to raze the hideous structure of Israel's past. They both failed, and they failed to the detriment of their people.

They failed because they WANTED to.

 

[Saint]

If Trump got power and sent 3 million troops to Iran, the MAGA could would be convinced it was necessary.

They aren’t anti war, they are for whatever trump says.

And history shows that Americans don't really care what the war is for. When the drums start beating, the media gets on board, followed by the population and next thing you know they're all cheering the bombs hitting refugee camps in Vietnam or Iraq or Lebanon.

 

[Saint]

Netanyahu doesn't want peace, he's proven it. He's said it on tape. Every action he's ever taken has been about moving away from peace.

Yet we have politicians in the west pretending that the problem is only on the other side.

Like if all the hostages were released and peace achieved that Netanyahu wouldn't continue to swallow up Palestine and ethnically cleanse it.

 

[Suspense]

The PLO, under Arafat negotiated a peace deal with Yitzak Rabin that resulted in Rabin being murdered by the same political movement that now runs Israel. This happened 30 years ago btw.

In the weeks before Rabin was killed Netanyahu was at far right Israeli rallies inciting people to kill him and there are people in Israel who claim Netanyahu and other more extreme members of the current Israeli government actually were involved in Rabin's assassination.

So just to reiterate over 30 years ago Arafat and Rabin, who'd been enemies and at war their entire lives decided to make peace in the hope that young Israeli and Palestinians of the time - the 1990s - would have a chance at growing up in peace and building a better world together. They put aside a lifetime of conflict and emnity because they didn't want their grankids living thru the same conflict they did their whole lives.

As a result the political movement that now runs Israel had Rabin killed 30 years ago this November 4, and instead of the chance of decades of peace we've seen 30 years of increasing conflict.

If anyone is to blame for the situation today it is Likud and its more extreme political allies who have done everything they could since Rabin was killed to drive this conflict and undermine any chance of peace.

Its a historical fact Arafat and the PLO and its successors gave up violence and tried to make peace and an Israeli war hero accepted that offer and was murdered by genocidal campaigners because of it.

The "historical fact" is that the PLO gave up violence (temporarily) whilst the other Palestinian groups (backed by Iran) continued the violence - with Arafat unable (or unwilling) to do anything about it. These terror attacks of course played a significant role in to Bibi's election victory in 1996.

The spoiler for the peace process was Hamas (and by extension, Iran).

Cute, heart-warming narrative though.

 

[Blue1980]

I watched an interview with Ralph Nader the other day. He estimates the death toll to be at least 300,000 in Gaza. I’m not saying he is correct, but the death toll has been stuck in the 40,000’s for a long time now. He believes both Israel and Hamas have motivations to underestimate the death toll.

40,000 people dead in such a densely populated area with the damage done does seem optimistic to me.

Surely starvation is coming into it now re deaths.

 

[Achy Blakey Heart]

Oh OK so an eye for an eye is perfectly fine.
Got it.

That makes no sense to the topic I was discussing.

 

[Achy Blakey Heart]

Netanyahu doesn't want peace, he's proven it. He's said it on tape. Every action he's ever taken has been about moving away from peace.

Yet we have politicians in the west pretending that the problem is only on the other side.

Like if all the hostages were released and peace achieved that Netanyahu wouldn't continue to swallow up Palestine and ethnically cleanse it.

Hamas don’t want peace. Hezbollah don’t want peace. Israeli gov doesn’t want peace.

 

[ferball]

The "historical fact" is that the PLO gave up violence (temporarily) whilst the other Palestinian groups (backed by Iran) continued the violence - with Arafat unable (or unwilling) to do anything about it. These terror attacks of course played a significant role in to Bibi's election victory in 1996.

You're referring to the violence conducted by fundamentalist Islamic Palestinian organisations who coincidently had been fostered by elements of the Israeli right and security apparatus in order to undermine the secularly, left leaning PLO and divide Palestinians in a way that hampered any peace attempts made by Palestinians and Israelis who weren't bloodthirsty, power hungry arseholes.

The spoiler for the peace process was Hamas (and by extension, elements of Israeli right).

Cute, heart-warming narrative though.

Not really. There's nothing heart warming about how some power hungry jerks will mortgage their own people's future long term interests to secure their own short term ones.

Its a problem for ordinary people all over the world.

 

[Aristotle Pickett]

IDF committing more war crimes in Lebanon, bombing a health care center.

 

[Achy Blakey Heart]

IDF committing more war crimes in Lebanon, bombing a health care center.

Hezbollah health care centre. Not that it makes it much better but it’s important to be accurate.

 

[Aristotle Pickett]

Hezbollah health care centre. Not that it makes it much better but it’s important to be accurate.

Still a war crime, it doesn't matter who runs it.

 

[sherb]

Hezbollah health care centre. Not that it makes it much better but it’s important to be accurate.

It doesn't make it better at all.

 

[Ghost Patrol]

Hezbollah health care centre. Not that it makes it much better but it’s important to be accurate.

A health care centre in Lebanon is an accurate description.

 

[QuietB]

If Trump got power and sent 3 million troops to Iran, the MAGA could would be convinced it was necessary.

They aren’t anti war, they are for whatever trump says.

True, but as far as I understand US politicians give endless cash to the Israeli’s - I’m not sure the Israeli’s are giving cash to Trump. And ultimately that is the only thing Trump cares about.

 

[Geelong_Sicko]

The "historical fact" is that the PLO gave up violence (temporarily) whilst the other Palestinian groups (backed by Iran) continued the violence - with Arafat unable (or unwilling) to do anything about it. These terror attacks of course played a significant role in to Bibi's election victory in 1996.

The spoiler for the peace process was Hamas (and by extension, Iran).

Cute, heart-warming narrative though.

Did you see Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez's office was vandalised by pro-Israeli co*kheads after she questioned the exploding pager incident?

AOC office covered with ‘blood-splattered’ signs after questioning exploding pager operation

AOC office covered with ‘blood-splattered’ signs after questioning exploding pager operation - Washington Examiner

Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez's office was vandalized after she questioned whether the U.S. was involved in an Israeli exploding pagers operation against Hezbollah.

www.washingtonexaminer.com

September 20, 2024

Rep. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez (D-NY) said her office was vandalized with “blood-splattered signs” after she questioned whether the United States played a role in an Israeli operation that caused pagers and small electronic devices belonging to Hezbollah members to explode.

“Yesterday my House office was tagged with blood-splattered signs accusing me of supporting terrorism after I questioned the pager operation, which clearly runs counter to US policy,” Ocasio-Cortez said in a post to X on Friday. “They must live under a rock to not know I don’t take well to bullies.”

The situation comes after Ocasio-Cortez said Thursday that Congress needs a “full accounting of the attack, including an answer from the State Department as to whether any US assistance went into the development or deployment of this technology...”

 

[HavUEvaSeenTheRain]

In one situation it's happening in an ethno-state. In the other it's happening in a genuine multicultural society where nobody will be thrown out of school because of their ethnicity.

I am very anti Israel government but….
One country is at war against an enemy who undertook a major terrorist attack against them (ignoring reasons for, for a minute)
The other is in Australia.

Australian’s pulling this crap is a thousand times worse. Naive is an understatement

 

[Suspense]

You're referring to the violence conducted by fundamentalist Islamic Palestinian organisations who coincidently had been fostered by elements of the Israeli right and security apparatus in order to undermine the secularly, left leaning PLO and divide Palestinians in a way that hampered any peace attempts made by Palestinians and Israelis who weren't bloodthirsty, power hungry arseholes.

Who funded the PIJ? Why did Iran start to fund Hamas in the early 1990s - around the time of the peace talks?

The zionist right is far from blameless in this mess - but you are omitting from your narrative other parties who at the time, and still today, refuse to accept Israel's existence under any circumstances.

Not really. There's nothing heart warming about how some power hungry jerks will mortgage their own people's future long term interests to secure their own short term ones.

Its a problem for ordinary people all over the world.

I never said the current situation is heart-warming. I said that your narrative is a fanciful, heart-warming tale that imagines a peaceful paradise with the Palestinian and Israeli grandkiddies playing alongside one another - if not for the evil Zionists.

In reality, Arafat never negotiated in good faith - even with a center-left Israeli PM. Cue the 2nd Intifada.

 

[the_interloper]

Hamas don’t want peace. Hezbollah don’t want peace. Israeli gov doesn’t want peace.

This is my observation too. Now we're at a stage where Iran and Israel are responding to each other's attacks, I'm no historian but I'm guessing this is how wars usually start.

 

[treeebeard]

Hamas (1987) don’t want peace. Hezbollah (1982) don’t want peace. Israeli gov (1948) doesn’t want peace.