Mid East Israel declare war after Hamas attack III

[Suspense]

Iran started formally funding the PIJ only a decade ago

"formally funding" - they have been funded by Hezbollah and Syria who were funded by Iran.

and Hamas is funded from Egypt these days.

Are you suggesting that Hamas is not funded by Iran?

The reality is that without Israeli oppression none of these groups would have been able to get traction among palestinians.

That is a hypothesis - not a reality. The existence of a Israeli state at all is considered by many to be 'Israeli oppression'.

Bullshit. Not "the evil zionists" just some of the Zionists, the ones on the right who are definitely evil. You can't tar everyone with the same brush, you have to recognise that not everyone in a society or ethnic group is evil otherwise you enable baseless bigotry against other people.

There's an alternate reality where Rabin wasn't shot and that doof last year still happened. The only difference was there were palestinians there as well and no one got massacred.



Yes he did, so did his successors and the orgs that grew out of the PLO - Fatah and the Palestinian Authority. Their good faith extends to showing so much restraint that organisations like Hamas get more support from ordinary palestinians because the PA don't react with violence.

Fact remains that from the moment the peace process began elements of Israeli right did whatever they could to sabotage it and the second intafada came after years of oppression and provocation. It was obvious for a over year beforehand that it was gonna happen because every opportunity the Israeli security state had to de-escalate it took the opposite path.

Arafat was in negotiations with a centre-left PM elected on a platform of peace and who was willing to negotiate and make significant compromises (even to the detriment of his own political popularity) - yet apparently, it was the Israeli right that scuttled the peace talks? Weird take.

Arafat never negotiated with good faith because he knew that any agreement which recognised a sovereign Israeli state would be intolerable to the Arab world and other regional powers.

 

[blackcat]

i'm not sure if resettling every palestinian from gaza around the world is doing a disservice to the plan for a promised land ...evidently scott is a convicted expert in other areas

was merely theoretical , and there were trial balloons and kites floated in meedja , but you know the crystal clear point was weekly protests moved the needle for Albo and his team , as if he can elicit treaty and ceasefire , that was KevinRudd's delusion we would be a middle power (Sino's_rat-fucked_us Oslo) when as PJK and hughewhite said we will only be geographical influence wedged between to great powers

Albo can't do anything but massage the edges , when he gets domestic zionist influence to push back on refugee visas the protests will allow him to hold a more firm line

apart from Beersheba charge of the light-brigade 110 years ago we cannot influence matters on a material level , Albo has to invert focus on how foreign d'affaires manipulate internal matters , and individual protesters may not appreciate matters and seek to let-off identitarian steam

 

[Freomaniac]

I will preface my comments with this disclosure, I am no expert on Middle East Politics and have always been fed the line of the right of the Jewish state to exist along with the whole untouchable history leading back to the horrific persecution in the European camps 80 years ago. That is not a get out of jail for free card for the next century though.
The unquestionable , support they receive from Australia, the UK and the United States is not validated by their actions, their provocative attacks and their human rights record with the people of Palestine. The US and UK both without any hesitation basically entered this conflict by sending anti missile support from their warships 24 hours ago and with teir unwaivering support of the Jewish state for over 70 years.
Both sides do not want peace and recognise that right now while the United States is in limbo waiting for their next President, its a great time to have a free hit.
As I said, I'm no expert but what I do know is that Israel is not the innocent little victim that should be automatically defended by their Allies any more. Events of the last few years have raised my personal awareness that the issues of the Middle east are not entirely squared on an innocent Israel being constantly supported no matter what they do.

Agree on the bolded and underlined bits you mentioned.

I am not expert on Middle East Politics, but I do know some bits and pieces like you do.

Yes We all know about the Tragedy the Jewish Population went through 80 years ago. Hitler sent millions of Jews to death camps and committed acts of mass murder.

What the Jews went through 80 years ago, Does that Give the Jews the right to do Acts of Genocide towards the Palestinian population? Absolutely not. Again, I agreed what you said.

 

[blackcat]

That is a hypothesis - not a reality. The existence of a Israeli state at all is considered by many to be 'Israeli oppression'.

ferball* has been there under professional guise and brussels EU

*if i got it right

___diplomatic commentator w FigBooty record

 

[blackcat]

What the Jews went through 80 years ago, Does that Give the Jews the right to do Acts of Genocide towards the Palestinian population? Absolutely not. Again, I agreed what you said.

but* BushBlairJWH excessdeath 4.5-6 million in last two decades

*definitely not whataboutism
Perth's VictoriaCross BenRobertsSmith up on warcrimes for Afghanistan action

tiktok and youtube algorithm's warp perspective , on either side - truth™✓ qua truth in wartime aphorism and propaganda and generational divides , digital , and 5g smartphones

 

[Suspense]

https://www.news.com.au/world/middle-east/israelhezbollahiran-conflict-updates/news-story/99fb6486cafba2ed4f562d3e16a2f58f

Ayatollah of Iran says October 7th attacks were legitimate and logical.

Also a nice little dog whistle to the millions of Muslims asking them to unify.

Guessing those in here pretending Iran are John Snow will agree with him.

He said that Israel “will not last long”

76 years and counting.

 

[blackcat]

He said that Israel “will not last long”

1176 years and counting.

+1100

 

[Markfs]

was merely theoretical , and there were trial balloons and kites floated in meedja , but you know the crystal clear point was weekly protests moved the needle for Albo and his team , as if he can elicit treaty and ceasefire , that was KevinRudd's delusion we would be a middle power (Sino's_rat-fucked_us Oslo) when as PJK and hughewhite said we will only be geographical influence wedged between to great powers

Albo can't do anything but massage the edges , when he gets domestic zionist influence to push back on refugee visas the protests will allow him to hold a more firm line

apart from Beersheba charge of the light-brigade 110 years ago we cannot influence matters on a material level , Albo has to invert focus on how foreign d'affaires manipulate internal matters , and individual protesters may not appreciate matters and seek to let-off identitarian steam

then become a lower ranking power and dont bother with the big boys. Australia's trade is off the land and in pits. We do it cheap and the larger countries would be silly to overlook us for raw materials. In fact, you could argue that china would like us better is we kept out head down. And as long as we supply the stuff, no one is motivated to invade. Now I've got a nuke sub base down the road which will be a first target in a war..... and just so a handful of our boys in suits can make out that they are players.

Meanwhile Rupert has reported that netinyahoo bugged boris johnson in a dunny raid....I wouldnt be surprised if netty doesnt take out some Labour leaders in britain in a pre-emptive strike.

 

[Markfs]

australia has lasted 60,000 years using israeli dating methods...

 

[ferball]

Probably not for this thread but I looked up the a not so random sample of three S&P 500 companies and their top few shareholders were the same investment funds.

Those funds have a fair bit of cross ownership, at least the ones that are public.

They own everything.

But yeah not really the thread for it.

 

[ferball]

ferball* has been there under professional guise and brussels EU

*if i got it right

___diplomatic commentator w FigBooty record

Not me. You might be thinking of a mutual friend.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

Imagine buying and selling weapons from them, which Australia is doing.

Which weapons do australia sell to Israel? And i'm not talking spare parts to boeing.
You could argue we are selling weapons to china because they use our iron ore in their steel.

 

[blackcat]

then become a lower ranking power and dont bother with the big boys. Australia's trade is off the land and in pits. We do it cheap and the larger countries would be silly to overlook us for raw materials. In fact, you could argue that china would like us better is we kept out head down. And as long as we supply the stuff, no one is motivated to invade. Now I've got a nuke sub base down the road which will be a first target in a war..... and just so a handful of our boys in suits can make out that they are players.

Meanwhile Rupert has reported that netinyahoo bugged boris johnson in a dunny raid....I wouldnt be surprised if netty doesnt take out some Labour leaders in britain in a pre-emptive strike.

Rupert has a home in TelAviv(hes not jewish folks) and two-top floors of Westin Hotel apartments above new hq of underground train link on Swanston tho i think his family did away w StGeorgesrd Toorak estate a few decades back when his mother aged

 

[blackcat]

Which weapons do australia sell to Israel? And i'm not talking spare parts to boeing.
You could argue we are selling weapons to china because they use our iron ore in their steel.

inputs from factories in Sunshine/Broadmeadows

 

[blackcat]

Which weapons do australia sell to Israel? And i'm not talking spare parts to boeing.
You could argue we are selling weapons to china because they use our iron ore in their steel.

i would put money on eponymous kilkullen doing consulting w IDF

*was Petraeus 2IC in the Iraq surge from. Duntroon outside pentagon

 

[ferball]

"formally funding" - they have been funded by Hezbollah and Syria who were funded by Iran.

Yeah that isn't the same thing tho.

Are you suggesting that Hamas is not funded by Iran?

They provide military aid but haven't provided other assistance for a decade because of differences over the Assad regime's behaviour.

That is a hypothesis - not a reality. The existence of a Israeli state at all is considered by many to be 'Israeli oppression'.

Bullshit. The only reason those groups get traction is the ongoing oppression of Palestinian people by the Israeli state.

Other people might consider the nabka the beginning of oppression but the Israeli state has the power in this relationship. They can escalate or de-escalate at will. They can forgive people and show compassion or respond with brutality. Its their choice and they consistently choose the brutal option.

Oppression doesn't tend to bring out the best in people so Israelis shouldn't be surprised when the people their state oppresses respond badly to it.

Arafat was in negotiations with a centre-left PM elected on a platform of peace and who was willing to negotiate and make significant compromises (even to the detriment of his own political popularity) - yet apparently, it was the Israeli right that scuttled the peace talks? Weird take.

Yeah, they murdered the centre left PM. The current PM called him a traitor, led a procession with a mock coffin down city streets after he was warned by security agencies how inciteful his actions were and there are members of the current Knesset who publicly accuse him and that other filth of being involved in the actual murder.

Arafat never negotiated with good faith because he knew that any agreement which recognised a sovereign Israeli state would be intolerable to the Arab world and other regional powers.

He led the way and over time other arab states softened their stance on Israel and have since recognised a sovereign Israeli state. Others have said they will formally recognise it as soon as it moves to implement a two state solution. So you are either misinformed or actively trying to disinform people about Arafat's intentions, which you would have no idea about anyway because he's been dead for nearly 20 years and I'll bet you'd never met him anyway.

 

[Blue1980]

How people quickly forget about the massacre of over 1000 innocent Israelis and foreigners

Both sides are fkd with their actions

Iran's regime has been one of killing and islamist terror both internal and external to their own country ... anyone backing those zealot nutcases are as bad as anyone backing the zealot zionists

Being against what Israel are doing doesn’t mean one is pro Iran.

 

[Blue1980]

https://www.news.com.au/world/middle-east/israelhezbollahiran-conflict-updates/news-story/99fb6486cafba2ed4f562d3e16a2f58f

Ayatollah of Iran says October 7th attacks were legitimate and logical.

Also a nice little dog whistle to the millions of Muslims asking them to unify.

Guessing those in here pretending Iran are John Snow will agree with him.

Nice strawman you are creating here.

It can’t be Israel’s fault and no one else’s. Their totally disproportionate response to October 7 and now what they are doing in Lebanon has led to this now.

 

[Suspense]

Yeah that isn't the same thing tho.

For all intents and purposes, it is.

They provide military aid but haven't provided other assistance for a decade because of differences over the Assad regime's behaviour.

Really?

Bullshit. The only reason those groups get traction is the ongoing oppression of Palestinian people by the Israeli state.
Other people might consider the nabka the beginning of oppression but the Israeli state has the power in this relationship. They can escalate or de-escalate at will. They can forgive people and show compassion or respond with brutality. Its their choice and they consistently choose the brutal option.
Oppression doesn't tend to bring out the best in people so Israelis shouldn't be surprised when the people their state oppresses respond badly to it.

How can the Israeli's achieve appeasement when the pre-condition is the destruction of the sovereign Israeli state?

Continuous terror attacks and external threats doesn't tend to bring out the best in people so Palestinians shouldn't be surprised when 'forgiveness' and 'compassion' is not forthcoming. In fact, it is what has led the Israeli's to lurch to the right in 1996, in 2001, and in recent decades.

He led the way and over time other arab states softened their stance on Israel and have since recognised a sovereign Israeli state. Others have said they will formally recognise it as soon as it moves to implement a two state solution.

They have signed agreements with Israel in spite of Palestine for strategic geopolitical reasons - not because 'Arafat led the way'.

So you are either misinformed or actively trying to disinform people about Arafat's intentions, which you would have no idea about anyway because he's been dead for nearly 20 years and I'll bet you'd never met him anyway.

Everything I've said is common knowledge. Keep making him out to be some misunderstood hero though - when in reality he died a reviled figure by Israelis, Jordanians, Lebanese, Kuwaitis, and to top it off, his own people.

 

[Johnny_Dogg4]

 

[HirdsTheWord]

He said that Israel “will not last long”

76 years and counting.

I’ll take things no one is worried about for $100 Alex

 

[Achy Blakey Heart]

Nice strawman you are creating here.

It can’t be Israel’s fault and no one else’s. Their totally disproportionate response to October 7 and now what they are doing in Lebanon has led to this now.

It’s not a straw man. It’s his words.

They are all guilty. Israeli government, hamas, hezbollah, Iran.

 

[Achy Blakey Heart]

US strikes against Houthis after months of rocket launches against Israel.

 

[Johnny_Dogg4]

 

[cartwright]

US strikes against Houthis after months of rocket launches against Israel.

they’ve been at it for months

From the BBC

Israel-Hezbollah war latest: More blasts reported in Beirut after key route out of Lebanon hit by Israeli strike

The crossing into Syria was being used by thousands to flee, but the Israeli military says Hezbollah were transporting weapons along it.

www.bbc.com

The US strikes reportedly hit multiple Houthi-linked sites, which included Yemen's capital Sanaa.

Houthi targets in Yemen have been struck by the US and Britain since January in response to attacks by rebels on shipping in the Red Sea and the Gulf of Aden.

The Houthis have repeatedly targeted commercial shipping in the Red Sea and Gulf of Aden since November, sinking two vessels, seizing another and causing the deaths of at least four crew members.