Mid East Israel declare war after Hamas attack III

[Jello_B]

They've gone for a 100% military response. They've abandoned any political response, and in the military response they've blown up all their political capital, in fact made things much, much worse.

Militarily, it's been bad for Hamas, but politically, this has done two things.
1) Exposed Israel. More people than ever understand Israel is a racist, apartheid country which doesn't want peace.
2) Isolated Israel. More countries are recognising Palestine and more will continue to. The Arab states have turned their backs on Israel and won't be able to turn back for decades.

They should have split it 50% political, 50% military.

They didn't need to invade, and even if they did, they didn't need to raze whole suburbs to the ground. Targeted strikes on leadership. Political and economic isolation, cut off the money from Qatar. Triple the size and patrols along the border fence which was ridiculously undefended. Boost an opposition faction to Hamas. Sure, the bloodlust wouldn't have been satiated.

The border fence is only 55km long, and Hamas attacked along the best-defended part of it in the north. It could easily be bolstered so that such an attack doesn't happen again.

Israel have offered no political solution, in fact the political discussions they were having they have hardened against. Nobody in Israel or even the talking heads on behalf of Israel can say what Israel's long-term peace strategy is.

They blew up Hamas and also said the Palestinian Authority wouldn't be welcome either. So they're creating the same political vacuum they created when they helped create Hamas.

They don't want a two-state solution, they've passed a law against it. So they're doubling down on apartheid and aren't even pretending not to.

Long-term, this will be a political disaster. The next generation of world leaders will not believe Israel's lies like the current leaders pretend to.

Meanwhile, the next Hamas will emerge full of traumatised young people ready to die for revenge of not just their "people", but their immediate family members. Who amongst us could say that if they saw Israel blow up their house, their friends and their parents as a child that they'd be mature and sensible enough to still seek peace?

A really good post and I agree with this.
Really dismantles a simpletons view that this thread is a hamas echo chamber. This thread is full of exceptional information.
Anyone with a brain can see through the thinly veiled propaganda attempts of those that are both siding this situation.
Arguing that people shouldn’t act because of the disproportionate response they will experience in return, is a weakling.

 

[Markfs]

They're murderers, pure and simple. I just want australia to disconnect at every level. We've already been poisoned and it's only going to get worse. I doubt that is even possible now.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

They're murderers, pure and simple. I just want australia to disconnect at every level. We've already been poisoned and it's only going to get worse. I doubt that is even possible now.

Australia maintain diplomatic relations with most countries, including the likes of North Korea.
There is still "some" trade with North Korea despite them threatening us with Nuclear strike.

 

[Markfs]

The US is getting its attack dog ready to take on Iran. Prepare your children and grandchildren for something a lot worse than a bit of inflation and high housing costs. I get the feeling that a whole generation is going to get an education on what happens when they let their leaders make decisions that only favour the elites who will be safe in their bunkers

What leaked US assessment of Israeli plans to strike Iran shows

US investigators are trying to find out how the highly classified intelligence documents were leaked online.

www.bbc.com

 

[Markfs]

Australia maintain diplomatic relations with most countries, including the likes of North Korea.
There is still "some" trade with North Korea despite them threatening us with Nuclear strike.

We dont treat north korea as a friend. We don't have our leaders going on visits there. We dont have leaders professing their support for north korea. The situation is completely different.

 

[Saint]

We dont treat north korea as a friend. We don't have our leaders going on visits there. We dont have leaders professing their support for north korea. The situation is completely different.

It's a good comparison. Israel behave about as well as Korea, maybe worse, but less overt. And yet we have very friendly relations with Israel and almost none with North Korea.

We do weapons deals with Israel, that has to stop. They're only minor, but even symbolic gestures will help - and not hurt anyone. Yesterday, all contracts should have been cancelled. Spain, France and others are now doing this.

 

[Markfs]

It's a good comparison. Israel behave about as well as Korea, maybe worse, but less overt. And yet we have very friendly relations with Israel and almost none with North Korea.

We do weapons deals with Israel, that has to stop. They're only minor, but even symbolic gestures will help - and not hurt anyone. Yesterday, all contracts should have been cancelled. Spain, France and others are now doing this.

Sydney University has a whole apparatus for supporting the weapons industry with its research capability. And many of these weapons are finding themselves in Gaza. It is a poison. Australian society is being poisoned. The greed is a main reason, but interests associated with israel are using it.

Thales off campus: Why there’s no space for weapons in education - Honi Soit

Thales is complicit in a long list of brutal conflicts around the world and continues to provide arms to major global powers.

honisoit.com

 

[Achy Blakey Heart]

It's a good comparison. Israel behave about as well as Korea, maybe worse, but less overt. And yet we have very friendly relations with Israel and almost none with North Korea.

Its not really. Israel thinks its protecting its own people and land by invading others. North Korea oppresses and murders its own.

 

[Markfs]

Its not really. Israel thinks its protecting its own people and land by invading others. North Korea oppresses and murders its own.

I see your point but israel manages to oppress their arab minority citizens, and it certainly controls the west bank and gaza and manages to really oppress the palestinians under their control and has murdered 40K. And yes, they aren't their own. They are not murdering jewish people, but these palestinians live and die under the control of israel.

The other difference of course, is that jewish Israelis are aligned to what their gov't is doing, so there is no need to oppress.

 

[treeebeard]

We dont treat north korea as a friend. We don't have our leaders going on visits there. We dont have leaders professing their support for north korea. The situation is completely different.

Zionists have huge political impact here. It's often said, they have a direct line to Kirribili.

I see your point but israel manages to oppress their arab minority citizens, and it certainly controls the west bank and gaza and manages to really oppress the palestinians under their control and has murdered 40K. And yes, they aren't their own. They are not murdering jewish people, but these palestinians live and die under the control of israel.

The other difference of course, is that jewish Israelis are aligned to what their gov't is doing, so there is no need to oppress.

Time will tell, but if the right keep strengthening in Israel, they will begin to oppress Jews as well, if they are not orthodox enough.

 

[treeebeard]

not quite - Israel were increasing permit amounts throughout 2022 and into 2023 with an aim to get to over 20,000 (record amount) and then keep going from there. Israel were still being Dick bags, but there were green shoots appearing.

https://www.timesofisrael.com/israel-okays-1500-more-entry-permits-for-gaza-workers-bringing-total-to-17000/#:~:text=Israel%20will%20raise%20the%20quota%20of%20work%20permits,widely%20known%20by%20its%20acronym%20COGAT%2C%20said%20Thursday.

Unfortunately the wheels had fallen off a bit in months prior to the attack

Israel hoped a better Gaza economy would quell violence. Hamas has other plans

***

www.haaretz.com

 

[Markfs]

Time will tell, but if the right keep strengthening in Israel, they will begin to oppress Jews as well, if they are not orthodox enough.

With respect, that is not what is happening in israel, and israeli supporters can no longer characterise the current gov't or the current PM as some sort of anomaly.

The Likud party is gaining support and I would guess that Netanyahu will be judged a hero by the time the "promised land" is under settler expansion and the palestinians are moved on by whatever means necessary.

https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/new-israeli-poll-shows-netanyahus-party-advancing-2024-09-13/

 

[Ghost Patrol]

Dave’s not here, man.

 

[Achy Blakey Heart]

I see your point but israel manages to oppress their arab minority citizens, and it certainly controls the west bank and gaza and manages to really oppress the palestinians under their control and has murdered 40K. And yes, they aren't their own. They are not murdering jewish people, but these palestinians live and die under the control of israel.

The other difference of course, is that jewish Israelis are aligned to what their gov't is doing, so there is no need to oppress.

The dynamics are quite different, it wasnt a great comparison tbh.

Are they? that's quite a blanket statement.

 

[Ghost Patrol]

The dynamics are quite different, it wasnt a great comparison tbh.

Are they? that's quite a blanket statement.

They are both pariah states, so are certainly comparable.

Israel have been condemned by the UN many more times than North Korea has.

I’d suggest the media bias you are exposed to has only given you half the picture.

 

[Markfs]

The dynamics are quite different, it wasnt a great comparison tbh.

Are they? that's quite a blanket statement.

We all make generalisations, I suppose, and at the margins these are going to be inherently inaccurate. However, the trend is there. The characterisation of Netty as being someone apart from israeli society is untrue. He's been elected a number of times over 2 decades. And his support is now the majority and getting bigger.

It's important to note that israeli hostages are still being held and netanyahu enabled the funding of hamas and was asleep at the wheel when the hamas attack took place.....and still he is getting more popular.

You have to ask yourself why. My answer is the promised land... I came to that view some months back and I feel stronger about it now. The right might voice it but judaism is based on it, so I'm not surprised that it has a wider pull.

 

[Not Important]

for decades, the billion-dollar worldwide israeli propaganda outfit has controlled the narritive. through censorship, threats, and courting those journos that can be bought.

 

[Not Important]

is there no end to israel's inhumanity

 

[Not Important]

ireland has led the way in drawing attention to the terrorism perpetrated by israel.