Mid East Israel declare war after Hamas attack III

[Saint]

I didn't suggest for one minute Israel were the victims.
Non combatants in Lebanon are the victims.

"If Palestinians didn't move the PLO, and Hezbollah to Lebanon, Lebanon would be nice."

Seems like you're blaming Lebanese people for the presence of entities that Israel created. The Palestinians didn't move the PLO or Hezbollah, Israel did. Lebanon and Palestine were separate until Israel pushed displaced Palestinians there and then invaded when they hit back.

 

[Saint]

If Europe didn't move the Haganah and Irgun to Palestine, then Palestine would be nice.

 

[Saint]

The EU is going to discuss cutting political ties with Israel. It won't get up because Hungary and Czechia will vote no, but it'll be a warning to Israel about annexation. Will be interesting to see if it's 20-7 for or against. I'm guessing it'll be majority against for now.

https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog_entry/eus-borrell-proposes-suspending-ties-with-israel-due-to-serious-concerns-over-gaza-war/

 

[Mofra]

Mike Huckabee has evidently said on radio that he'd like to see israel annex the west bank..... preparing the way for the trump-bibi love-fest

It's going to get much much worse for Palestinian civilians when the Republicans get sworn in.

The West Bank has been shrinking for decades and it could all but be wiped out in the next 4 years

 

[ipswichpies]

your skills are wasted on here ippy...

I know.

 

[Markfs]

This is over a month old but it relates to Australia and how much the lobby has got a hold of our attitude to the middle east.

Palestine put forward a resolution to the UN based on the International Court opinion which basically stated that Israel is illegal. The resolution detailed what Israel had to do...including vacating gaza. It was a gutless general assembly resolution but Australia still found a way to abstain, on technical grounds, because it didnt get amendments through that watered it down - the usual story.

Wong defended the decision to abstain.....

It's not what the lobby wants and I think they will be supporting dutton in the next election, but there wasn't a whinge from the locals representing israeli interests, from what I can see.

Interestingly, on a side note, a few days after the trump election, I got a visit from a representative of my local state labor member. Labor has owned Fremantle since federation. It hardly bothers to give a presence. The visit was followed up by an email from the federal representative. I havent heard from him since the last election. Why now, I ask myself?

Labor is under pressure from the right wingers fronted by dutton, and while the deaths of 43K of palestinians is a minor event compared to australians buying a home, there is no way Labor is going to upset the lobby in the current environment.

 

[ipswichpies]

Its not a bravery contest.

Palestinians will not win by being "brave "

What you and A lot of Israeli,s fail to understand is that Palestinians bye and large are not afraid to be Martyred this is why Israel failed to show Sinwar,s last stand because that would mean even more Hamas recruits.

Like me I think you have no idea how much intestinal fortitude it takes to actually stay there with the bombs raining down if these people had arms like Israel Israel would last about 2 days and then it would be finished.

 

[ipswichpies]

The Iron Dome was built for mid and short-range rockets. It is struggling against drones (but they're developing alternative counter-measures) and it's proven useless against the High altitude Iranian missiles.

Each THAAD only has eight missiles, and they're spread across the country with only a 200km operating range.

So Iran just needs to pick a target with only one THAAD defence, and every missile more than 8 which they fire will get through and that's assuming a 100% success rate from the THAAD battery, which is unlikely.

Nevatim/Dimona has had a THAAD for a while, they just don't talk about it much. If Israel had struck at Iran's nuclear facility, this is where the Iranians would strike.x

Israel's relatively impotent last attack on Iran showed they didn't want to escalate to oil or nuclear targets. If I was Iran, now that Israel is politically isolated, I would be attacking their port facilities, specifically their petrol import facilities. The US can supply munitions all sorts of ways, but providing fuel through damaged infrastructure is very difficult.

Maybe the time is right for Erdogan to finally stop the Oil going into Israel through Turkiye, that would be a 1st for him.

 

[Markfs]

Maybe the time is right for Erdogan to finally stop the Oil going into Israel through Turkiye, that would be a 1st for him.

good idea ippy.... it seems that turkey has cut ties with israel

 

[schneebly111]

More evidence of how bad the “innocent peace loving Maccabi fans” were on the streets of Amsterdam:

 

[Markfs]

More evidence of how bad the “innocent peace loving Maccabi fans” were on the streets of Amsterdam:

i like the guy with the cap....

It makes you wonder why the leadership of a country would turn their backs on their own citizens to support a group of people coming from the outside with a history of doing stuff like this. And the netherlands is a democracy....

 

[Markfs]

Reading what the new york times has said, it seems that there is a difference of opinion between the americans and the israelis.

The israelis want to do the cleansing of palestinians from gaza rapidly, using starvation to really make a dent in the number of deaths. On the other hand, the US put a pseudo threat about arms limitations and a 30 day period, probably to get the israelis to allow a few trucks of food through, which it has done in the last few days. This probably means that Biden wants to delay mass deaths until Trump comes to power and after that, he'll be at the beach writing his memoirs

U.S. to Keep Sending Arms to Israel Despite Dire Conditions in Gaza

The State Department said Israel needs to take more steps to improve the situation among Palestinians. The United States had given the country 30 days to meet aid criteria.

www.nytimes.com

 

[Markfs]

So the Israelis have decided to take on Turkey and call its bluff.....the outcome might demonstrate whether any country can defy the israeli strategy of forcing most of the countries in the world to bend over in the prone position.....


(Nov. 13, 2024 / JNS)
Israel’s Foreign Ministry denied a change in its diplomatic relationship with Turkey on Wednesday, just hours after Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdoğan claimed that he had cut all ties with Jerusalem.

The ministry “is not aware of a change in the status of relations with Turkey,” it circulated in a statement cited by local media.

Reports noted that Turkey’s embassy in Israel was functioning as usual, while Jerusalem’s diplomatic mission in Ankara also remains open.

Earlier on Wednesday, speaking with reporters aboard a plane en route to Ankara after a visit to Azerbaijan, Erdoğan claimed that “we, as the State and Government of the Republic of Turkey, have cut off relations with Israel. We do not have any relationship with Israel at this point.”

The Turkish president also told attendees at the COP29 climate summit in Baku on Wednesday that “coordinated diplomatic efforts must be used” to push the Jewish state “into a corner,” Israel Hayom reported.

Erdoğan has become more hostile towards Israel and closer to Hamas since the terrorist group’s assault in southern Israel on Oct. 7, 2023.

In May, Erdoğan called Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu a “vampire who feeds on blood,” urging Muslims to fight the Jewish state.

“The world is watching the barbarity of … a vampire who feeds on blood called Netanyahu, and they are watching it on live broadcast,” he said.

Two months later, Erdoğan told Newsweek that Palestinian terrorists from Gaza were “simply defending their homes, streets and homeland.

“What is between Israel and Gaza is not war,” he continued. “Israel has been treating Gaza as an open-air prison for years. They are usurping Palestinians of their homes, businesses and farmlands throughout Palestinian territory using thieving terrorists they call settlers.”

Over the summer, the Israeli Defense Ministry extended a power supply contract for army bases with Dorad Energy, which is partially owned by a Turkish company whose chairman has received praise from Erdoğan.

The Dorad power station, the Jewish state’s second-largest independent power station, has provided electricity to the Israel Defense Forces and the Defense Ministry since 2004. In July, the firm’s board of directors approved renewing the deal to supply power to IDF military bases.

Zorlu Holding’s chairman, Ahmet Nazif Zorlu, is said to maintain close ties with Erdoğan and his AK Party. In the past, he received multiple awards from Erdoğan, with the Turkish leader praising him as a “hero.”

The contract with Israel’s Defense Ministry was extended two months after Erdoğan declared that he would halt all business with the Jewish state, citing the “humanitarian tragedy” amid the war in Gaza.

Following a public outcry in Turkey, Zorlu Holding said that it intended to sell its shares in Dorad, ending its business ties to the Jewish state.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

"If Palestinians didn't move the PLO, and Hezbollah to Lebanon, Lebanon would be nice."

Seems like you're blaming Lebanese people for the presence of entities that Israel created. The Palestinians didn't move the PLO or Hezbollah, Israel did. Lebanon and Palestine were separate until Israel pushed displaced Palestinians there and then invaded when they hit back.

Are you saying that Jordan was wrong to expel them?
Not sure how you think i'm blaming the Lebanese though.
They thought they were taking in refugees , not an army that was going to drag them into the war.

 

[Saint]

Are you saying that Jordan was wrong to expel them?
Not sure how you think i'm blaming the Lebanese though.
They thought they were taking in refugees , not an army that was going to drag them into the war.

Jordan just managed to do it first and the displaced resistance fighters had to go somewhere. Notably, the pre-Israeli Jewish terror groups simply formed the IDF at the time as the Palestinian terror groups became nomads.

The IDF committed more massacres in this era than any Palestinian group did, and then Israel started the six days war.

 

[Saint]

A few more countries, including Australia, recognising the accepted borders of Palestine as they should have done years ago, but about time for something. Will make annexation harder with more opposition

Australia backs UN resolution recognising ‘permanent sovereignty’ of Palestinians in major departure

Vote cast with 158 other countries to recognise ‘permanent sovereignty of the Palestinian people in the Occupied Palestinian Territory’

www.theguardian.com

 

[Scotland]

A few more countries, including Australia, recognising the accepted borders of Palestine as they should have done years ago, but about time for something. Will make annexation harder with more opposition

Australia backs UN resolution recognising ‘permanent sovereignty’ of Palestinians in major departure

Vote cast with 158 other countries to recognise ‘permanent sovereignty of the Palestinian people in the Occupied Palestinian Territory’

www.theguardian.com

What are the "accepted borders"?

Are we talking 1947? 1967? 2005? Other?

 

[Markfs]

whatever israel accepts

What are the "accepted borders"?

Are we talking 1947? 1967? 2005? Other?

View attachment 2165485

 

[sr36]

Seems like you're blaming Lebanese people for the presence of entities that Israel created. The Palestinians didn't move the PLO or Hezbollah, Israel did. Lebanon and Palestine were separate until Israel pushed displaced Palestinians there and then invaded when they hit back.

Hezbollah aren't Palestinian. They're Shi'ites.

It's a long bow to put their creation down to Israel.