Mid East Israel declare war after Hamas attack III

[SaintsSeptember]

France vs Israel football this morning. Macron made a point of showing up with lots of troops and police.

French fans boycotted and Israeli fans turned up in masks and started bashing what few opposition fans there were.

This is why Australia should be taking away the citizenship of anyone who fights for the IDF, just as we would if they fought for Hamas or Hezbollah.

The law as it is written states that its not illegal for an Australian to join the military of a foreign country, and hence to fight for them.
It is illegal to go and fight for Hamas or Hezbollah since they are NOT the military of a foreign country.

There must be some sort of statute on what military the can join, ( assume they can't join South Korea etc ), but probably Israel were not on it.
Even if they were to change the status of Israel now, it could only affect people who joined the IDF after the law was changed.

Normally you can't just go and join a military without any qualifications or training, so does that mean that those going to fight for the IDF are some who have already served military time there? ( ie former Israeli nationals who were old enough before they left )?

 

[Saint]

The law as it is written states that its not illegal for an Australian to join the military of a foreign country, and hence to fight for them.
It is illegal to go and fight for Hamas or Hezbollah since they are NOT the military of a foreign country.

There must be some sort of statute on what military the can join, ( assume they can't join South Korea etc ), but probably Israel were not on it.
Even if they were to change the status of Israel now, it could only affect people who joined the IDF after the law was changed.

Normally you can't just go and join a military without any qualifications or training, so does that mean that those going to fight for the IDF are some who have already served military time there? ( ie former Israeli nationals who were old enough before they left )?

If the IDF were declared a terror organisation for committing genocide, it wouldn't matter if they'd joined before or after. Only if they served in the terror organisation after it was designated.

I think they should do that.

The stories coming from surgeons, journalists and aid workers is that the IDF are deliberately targetting children even out in the open.

I can imagine how it would sound if somebody returned from ISIS and tried to say they were one of the ones following the rules of war, it was just everyone else who wasn't.

 

[Markfs]

The law as it is written states that its not illegal for an Australian to join the military of a foreign country, and hence to fight for them.
It is illegal to go and fight for Hamas or Hezbollah since they are NOT the military of a foreign country.

There must be some sort of statute on what military the can join, ( assume they can't join South Korea etc ), but probably Israel were not on it.
Even if they were to change the status of Israel now, it could only affect people who joined the IDF after the law was changed.

Normally you can't just go and join a military without any qualifications or training, so does that mean that those going to fight for the IDF are some who have already served military time there? ( ie former Israeli nationals who were old enough before they left )?

They are all dual citizens who keep their australian citizenship like a get out of jail card. No wonder, the Australian gov't is going to put free flights into tel aviv even though these people have been well-warned that they are living in a country at war. We could use australian taxpayer money to help australian citizens in this country.......and let me say, my attitude is the same for dual citizenship lebanese who have stayed in beirut. They have been well-warned that they should come "home" to this country......but in both cases, Australia isnt a home. It's a convenience.
And if someone choses to fight for the IDF or hamas or whatever, they have made their choice.....vows to australia with the bible, torah or koran in hand mean nothing.....

 

[SaintsSeptember]

They are all dual citizens who keep their australian citizenship like a get out of jail card. No wonder, the Australian gov't is going to put free flights into tel aviv even though these people have been well-warned that they are living in a country at war. We could use australian taxpayer money to help australian citizens in this country.......and let me say, my attitude is the same for dual citizenship lebanese who have stayed in beirut. They have been well-warned that they should come "home" to this country......but in both cases, Australia isnt a home. It's a convenience.
And if someone choses to fight for the IDF or hamas or whatever, they have made their choice.....vows to australia with the bible, torah or koran in hand mean nothing.....

I don't like it, but its what the law is. I'd be in favour of relinquishing other citizenship if you become an Australian.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

If the IDF were declared a terror organisation for committing genocide, it wouldn't matter if they'd joined before or after. Only if they served in the terror organisation after it was designated.

I think they should do that.

The stories coming from surgeons, journalists and aid workers is that the IDF are deliberately targetting children even out in the open.

I can imagine how it would sound if somebody returned from ISIS and tried to say they were one of the ones following the rules of war, it was just everyone else who wasn't.

I don't think that legally you can change a law and then arrest people acting under the previous legislation , its like..

Dude you got clocked at 80km/h the other day. Yeah but the limit is 100. Nah we changed it to 60 today.

To declare the IDF a terrorist organisation, you either need to declare that Israel is a terrorist state, or consider that IDF were no longer being controlled by Israel.

 

[Markfs]

I don't like it, but its what the law is.

laws can be changed...it doesnt always have to be the jewish lobby in australia that puts pressure on politicians to make or adjust laws in parliament.

 

[Markfs]

I don't think that legally you can change a law and then arrest people acting under the previous legislation , its like..

Dude you got clocked at 80km/h the other day. Yeah but the limit is 100. Nah we changed it to 60 today.

To declare the IDF a terrorist organisation, you either need to declare that Israel is a terrorist state, or consider that IDF were no longer being controlled by Israel.

"The Attorney-General may permit recruitment of a person or class of persons to serve with an armed force of a foreign country if it is in the interests of the defence or international relations of Australia."

https://www.ag.gov.au/national-security/australias-counter-terrorism-laws/foreign-incursions-and-recruitment-offences#:~:text=The%20Attorney%2DGeneral%20may%20permit,forces%20of%20a%20foreign%20country.

 

[schneebly111]

France vs Israel football this morning.

It was a UEFA Nations League match - why does Israel compete in Europe, whereas every single nation it borders (including Palestine) competes in Asia???

Let’s see later today when Europe wakes up if their leaders are fully condemning the outright violence from Israeli fans? I’m not holding my breath.

 

[Not Important]

this is inhumanity and utter indifference to other humans not seen in our time. and the u.s, which has blood on its hands, continues to support israel, a pariah that has not one ounce of decency or compassion. may those responsible one day get their just deserts, which won’t be pleasant.



with phillip x 1000

 

[SaintsSeptember]

laws can be changed...it doesnt always have to be the jewish lobby in australia that puts pressure on politicians to make or adjust laws in parliament.

Its our general citizenship laws, there's nothing specific about a jewish lobby.
How long have they even been in place?

The legislation is from 1948.

Are you a dual citizen? You might have lost your Australian rights without knowing it

A recent case has highlighted the plight of those caught in legal limbo because they lost their citizenship. So how did we get here, when can citizenship be stripped under the law, and what are some solutions?

www.abc.net.au

 

[Not Important]

x2

 

[SaintsSeptember]

"The Attorney-General may permit recruitment of a person or class of persons to serve with an armed force of a foreign country if it is in the interests of the defence or international relations of Australia."

https://www.ag.gov.au/national-security/australias-counter-terrorism-laws/foreign-incursions-and-recruitment-offences#:~:text=The%20Attorney%2DGeneral%20may%20permit,forces%20of%20a%20foreign%20country.

Are they being recruited or are they already reservists? I find it hard to believe you could just rock up at Israel and fight in their Army.

you forgot to bold. It is not an offence under Part 5.5 for an Australian to join the armed forces of a foreign country.

I don't like them doing it , but our laws don't stop them.

 

[Not Important]

laws can be changed...it doesnt always have to be the jewish lobby in australia that puts pressure on politicians to make or adjust laws in parliament.

sorry, but you just don’t realise the depth and reach of zionist power or the extent it will go to advance zionism and censor criticism. not only via politicians but also the media, intimidating people of influence wherever they may be. the wonderful miriam margolyes has even copped in over the roles she’s taken on as an actress. there are none better at intimidation and manipulation.

 

[Markfs]

Are they being recruited or are they already reservists? I find it hard to believe you could just rock up at Israel and fight in their Army.

you forgot to bold. It is not an offence under Part 5.5 for an Australian to join the armed forces of a foreign country.

I don't like them doing it , but our laws don't stop them.

i went to a zionist school of propaganda...you have to forgive me. The quote still holds. The foreign service needs to be in australia's interests....

or they can choose to become israelis....in fact, they are automatically israelis anyway according to their gov't. If their mother is a jew, then they are an israeli

 

[Markfs]

sorry, but you just don’t realise the depth and reach of zionist power or the extent it will go to advance zionism and censor criticism. not only via politicians but also the media, intimidating people of influence wherever they may be. the wonderful miriam margolyes has even copped in over the roles she’s taken on as an actress. there are none better at intimidation and manipulation.

i'm not sure that i'm the problem. I think the great-unwashed have been hoodwinked....concentrating on lighting the bbq and ignoring that a small group of people on whatsapp are dictating laws to our supposed representatives...

 

[Not Important]

i'm not sure that i'm the problem. I think the great-unwashed have been hoodwinked....concentrating on lighting the bbq and ignoring that a small group of people on whatsapp are dictating laws to our supposed representatives...

it wasn't directed at you. just a reminder of the reach and power of the zionist propaganda outfit. they have millions to spend on it in oz alone.

 

[Markfs]

it wasn't directed at you. just a reminder of the reach and power of the zionist propaganda outfit. they have millions to spend on it in oz alone.

Its not just the propaganda. It's the free holidays to israel that have been in place for decades....for politicians and journalists and even union leaders..... thousands of flights and holidays...

Its about the endless speaking engagements that are given to politicians. I dont know about the funding to political parties but I wouldnt be surprised.

I saw an article in the Australian referenced in google this morning about the netherlands situation. Pure propaganda. We all know that the Australian is probably on par with a lot of jewish publications. Why does Murdoch do this? He's an American citizen now...or is he a dual citizen? Ironic isnt it... Protected by successive australian govt's because he ran an "australian" publication and now he is american. Evidently, even a 95 year old man can be persuaded by the lobby.

And remember how elon musk changed his tune....Evidently, he cant be "bought by money" as he put it....but a few months later, he is taking his son on a pilgrimage... Do I sound like a conspiracy theorist? Well I tend to look at the evidence and the evidence is telling me a story

 

[Not Important]

Its not just the propaganda. It's the free holidays to israel that have been in place for decades....for politicians and journalists and even union leaders..... thousands of flights and holidays...

Its about the endless speaking engagements that are given to politicians. I dont know about the funding to political parties but I wouldnt be surprised.

I saw an article in the Australian referenced in google this morning about the netherlands situation. Pure propaganda. We all know that the Australian is probably on par with a lot of jewish publications. Why does Murdoch do this? He's an American citizen now...or is he a dual citizen? Ironic isnt it... Protected by successive australian govt's because he ran an "australian" publication and now he is american. Evidently, even a 95 year old man can be persuaded by the lobby.

And remember how elon musk changed his tune....Evidently, he cant be "bought by money" as he put it....but a few months later, he is taking his son on a pilgrimage... Do I sound like a conspiracy theorist? Well I tend to look at the evidence and the evidence is telling me a story

they are all propaganda.

 

[ipswichpies]

Things would be better if you gave up quite frankly
I don't believe one Iota of heaven and all that matyrdom bullshit. Yes i understand that they believe it. Suicide bombers and plane crashers, and off to a better existance.

If people would believe in living "this " life they might find ways to co-exist.

What living this life in Gaza or the West Bank,I do not think the Israeli are very keen on letting them live in this life if their actions are anything to go by.
As for me giving up mate it would be be better all round if you and people of your ilk just gave up defending the indefensible that is what you fail to understand,Israel ATT are most hated country in the world and the USA is a close 2nd and as I said it will take generations for that to change.

People like you who defend Israel only make things worse.

 

[Scotland]

They said Occupied Territories including East Jerusalem. So My guess would be that it's all of the West Bank and Gaza Strip, including the settlements.

And West Jerusalem?

There is not a snowflake's that the entirety of the West Bank becomes a sovereign state of Palestine.

 

[Saint]

What living this life in Gaza or the West Bank,I do not think the Israeli are very keen on letting them live in this life if their actions are anything to go by.
As for me giving up mate it would be be better all round if you and people of your ilk just gave up defending the indefensible that is what you fail to understand,Israel ATT are most hated country in the world and the USA is a close 2nd and as I said it will take generations for that to change.

People like you who defend Israel only make things worse.

I dunno, I think Russia and UAE might hated more for Ukraine and Sudan. (if we're only talking about hatred for foreign policy.

The North Korean people and Iranian people might hate their Govts more than anyone hates somebody else's govt.

But the point is correct. Everyone hates Israel and nearly every country is consistently voting against them at the UN. But, while the US was pretending to be anti-genocide, that gave some countries cover to follow the US.

Now that Trump has been elected and is appointing people overtly pro-Israel, that cover is gone. I think we'll see more countries follow Australia's lead and move away from the US on Middle Eastern policy. Which works well for Iran, especially if the Saudis demand neutrality of any further Iranian escalation.

 

[Saint]

And West Jerusalem?

There is not a snowflake's that the entirety of the West Bank becomes a sovereign state of Palestine.

Most of the world already formally recognises West Jerusalem as part of Palestine.

 

[Markfs]

Most of the world already formally recognises West Jerusalem as part of Palestine.

with that line of thinking, crimea should be ukrainian in the next few years....

 

[Saint]

with that line of thinking, crimea should be ukrainian in the next few years....

Correct. All of the world except for Russia and Belarus recognises Crimea and Donetsk as occupied Ukrainian territory.

Notably, Russia and Belarus also seem to include areas of Ukraine as part of Russia which are still under Ukrainian control. For example, Kherson is part of Russia according to Russia. But it's controlled by Ukraine and the whole world recognises it as part of Ukraine.

Just because they've occupied it for a longer period, doesn't make it any less Palestinian territory from a legal perspective.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

Correct. All of the world except for Russia and Belarus recognises Crimea and Donetsk as occupied Ukrainian territory.

Notably, Russia and Belarus also seem to include areas of Ukraine as part of Russia which are still under Ukrainian control. For example, Kherson is part of Russia according to Russia. But it's controlled by Ukraine and the whole world recognises it as part of Ukraine.

Just because they've occupied it for a longer period, doesn't make it any less Palestinian territory from a legal perspective.

Crimea is another of those "funny" cases.
When it was gifted to the Ukraine it was considered a token gesture, since Ukraine were a puppet Soviet state.

Pretty silly gesture in hindsite.