Mid East Israel declare war after Hamas attack.

[Carn The Berries]

one more so than the other but yes both on are on either side.

So yes

 

[bzparkes]

Are the Israeli tunnels considered to be attack tunnels as well, or is it just the Hamas ones described that way?

I must've missed the news about Israeli attack tunnels but if they exist then yes, of course they would be.

You're going to have to enlighten me on this though, because I haven't seen this myself.

Have Hamas not launched attacks on Israel since being in control of Gaza from the tunnel network, or stash weapons there, smuggle weapons, etc?

 

[HirdsTheWord]

So yes

so? Doesnt mena they are on an equal footing.

Australia has all of those too. Are we the same as Hamas as well?

 

[faible]

one more so than the other but yes both on are on either side.

I can only assume based on the scale of death and devastation that the Israeli side is jam packed with them.

 

[Ghost Patrol]

one more so than the other but yes both on are on either side.

A quick google search and historically, it’s looking like Israel are much worse than Hamas for these things.

But you’re only focused on Oct 7, yeah?

 

[Carn The Berries]

I can only assume based on the scale of death and devastation that the Israeli side is jam packed with them.

+1

**Edit - Also shooting their own hostages (civilians)

 

[HirdsTheWord]

Disingenuous.

It is highly likely Australia is not providing civilian targets. Our govt and military aren't that stupid (Israel seems to identify journalists locations effectively though, so who knows?)

However, journalistic targets aside - Australia is providing Hamas targets - while at the same time fully aware that with that information Israel is indiscriminately bombing (and killing and maiming) thousands of civilians.

So Australia may not be PROVIDING civilian targets per se, but Pine Gap info is leading to the deaths of non-combatants.

A nice way for our govt/military to side-step war crime culpability if called on in future, I'd suspect. But morally disgusting.

i see your point but if the view is we shouldn't provide military assistance without complete lack of civilian causalities, I'm not sure how realistic that is. I would trust that our military are doing the right thing.

 

[HirdsTheWord]

A quick google search and historically, it’s looking like Israel are much worse than Hamas for these things.

But you’re only focused on Oct 7, yeah?

Not really.

I have been consistant from the start of this thread.

Zionism and Hamas (Both extremes of each side) need to go, and a real 2 state solution is to be adopted.

 

[HirdsTheWord]

The more I think about tunnels, the more I think they are a defensive strategy.

Why do people let Israel gaslight you into thinking they are offensive?

Kidnapping hostages and holding them in tunnels is a defensive tactic is it?

A good defense is a good offense after all.

 

[Chief]

Kidnapping hostages and holding them in tunnels is a defensive tactic is it?

A good defense is a good offense after all.

As is putting 12 year olds on the bonnet of your vehicle as human shields.

 

[Ghost Patrol]

Kidnapping hostages and holding them in tunnels is a defensive tactic is it?

A good defense is a good offense after all.

Tunnels keep the hostages safe from Israel’s carpet bombing regime.

Its not like they would be safer in a hospital or refugee camp, is it?

 

[HirdsTheWord]

As is putting 12 year olds on the bonnet of your vehicle as human shields.

yes, will i didn't say Israel are a beacon of doing what's right.

 

[faible]

OR it would be safer if you didn't take them at all. Thats also an option.

Would it help if Israel stopped imprisoning Palestinians for well, just about anything?

 

[Ghost Patrol]

Would it help if Israel stopped imprisoning Palestinians for well, just about anything?

No, thats completely different because tunnels.

Attack tunnels vs defense fighter jets.

 

[HirdsTheWord]

Tunnels keep the hostages safe from Israel’s carpet bombing regime.

Its not like they would be safer in a hospital or refugee camp, is it?

I'd probably say that the hostages would have been safer if they weren't taken hostage at all? Just me though.

But i like how you are patting Hamas on the back for keeping their hostages out of harm's way. Cudos to them. Just misunderstood i reckon.

 

[Aristotle Pickett]

I really like your posting so I’m interested to know your thoughts.

What would Netanyahu resigning achieve?

I thought i have seen the opposing side in Israeli politics suggest he isn’t doing enough in the conflict with HAMAS. So what I’m asking is, will the alternative be any better?

If he can be replaced with someone who will accept a two state solution, that could help.

 

[DangerousD]

The more I think about tunnels, the more I think they are a defensive strategy.

Why do people let Israel gaslight you into thinking they are offensive?

I am dumbfounded how any government can parade the finding of a tunnel as some sort of got ya moment.

Melbourne is full of tunnels, old sewer tunnels, old subway tunnels, old access tunnels, cable tunnels.

These tunnels go between buildings, up and down busy streets and are used for many reasons.

Anyone could take a phot with a headline and make it sinister.

Tunnels are normal and in every city.

 

[geoffjennings79]

i see your point but if the view is we shouldn't provide military assistance without complete lack of civilian causalities, I'm not sure how realistic that is. I would trust that our military are doing the right thing.

Complete lack of civilian casualties is impossible in any conflict.

But Israel are making no evident effort (I'm being generous here, as I believe and it is abundantly clear they are doing the exact opposite) to reduce/avoid civilian casualties.

Our military and govt could not fail to be aware of this, given the majority of the world is. Yet we provide the intel anyway. Knowing what the consequences are - on a daily basis.

So I don't trust our military or govt are doing the right thing morally by authorising/supplying the intel.

 

[bzparkes]

I am dumbfounded how any government can parade the finding of a tunnel as some sort of got ya moment.

Melbourne is full of tunnels, old sewer tunnels, old subway tunnels, old access tunnels, cable tunnels.

These tunnels go between buildings, up and down busy streets and are used for many reasons.

Anyone could take a phot with a headline and make it sinister.

Tunnels are normal and in every city.

These tunnels were dug out using child labour, of which 160+ are estimated to have died during the process.

They are used to smuggle contraband/weapons and launch attacks.

They can't realistically be compared to generic tunnel systems in major capital cities.

 

[HirdsTheWord]

Complete lack of civilian casualties is impossible in any conflict.

But Israel are making no evident effort (I'm being generous here, as I believe and it is abundantly clear they are doing the exact opposite) to reduce/avoid civilian casualties.

Our military and govt could not fail to be aware of this, given the majority of the world is. Yet we provide the intel anyway. Knowing what the consequences are - on a daily basis.

So I don't trust our military or govt are doing the right thing morally by authorising/supplying the intel.

I dont share the viewpoint that Israel are deliberately targeting civilians but am also not in support of their mass bombing approach. never have been.

What do you mean by the bolded bit? Australia has voted for a ceasefire along with most of the rest of the world and we are not the only ones providing military assistance to Israel. I'm confused by the picture you are painting that Australia is out on some kind of island on its own?

 

[HirdsTheWord]

And yet you are perfectly happy for Australia to support Israel (a country that is entirely run by Zionists, by definition) with intelligence and aid.

Against Hamas? yes.

I am also quite happy for aid etc to be provided and a ceasefire periods to continue to be agreed to prevent civilian Palestinian deaths.

 

[Carn The Berries]

Would it help if Israel stopped imprisoning Palestinians for well, just about anything?

And letting them die while in custody...

 

[Carn The Berries]

These tunnels were dug out using child labour, of which 160+ are estimated to have died during the process.

They are used to smuggle contraband/weapons and launch attacks.

They can't realistically be compared to generic tunnel systems in major capital cities.

Proof? I haven't even heard the IDF claim that they were built using child labour.

 

[Carn The Berries]

I dont share the viewpoint that Israel are deliberately targeting civilians but am also not in support of their mass bombing approach. never have been.

What do you mean by the bolded bit? Australia has voted for a ceasefire along with most of the rest of the world and we are not the only ones providing military assistance to Israel. I'm confused by the picture you are painting that Australia is out on some kind of island on its own?

They're shooting their own hostages ffs... While it may not be "deliberate" they sure as s**t aren't doing anything to avoid/minimise/mitigate civilian casualties.

 

[Geelong_Sicko]

The West destroyed its moral legitimacy after Iraq. We haven't had any for years. That's why the only people who listen to or look to the West are from the West. The rest of the world is over it.

We took all the good s**t for ourselves and shat on the rest of the world and now everyone else knows it and thinks we're scum.

Iraq? After Vietnam, for f*ck's sake. After US-trained death squads were raping nuns and slaughtering villagers all through Central America in the 1980's, and even before that. Pinochet of Chile. The Somozas of Nicaragua. Concurrent with Vietnam was Suharto of Indonesia, he who killed millions all US-sanctioned.

That nation has been morally bankrupt for a VERY long time. Australia has been morally bankrupt by association for a very long time too, eager as we are to follow unquestioningly in the military 'adventures' of our masters the United States and before that the British Empire.

I think this needs to change.