Society/Culture Its happening. Smoking is going to become illegal in modern societies

[ferball]

Well.... at least your new years eve night wasnt Dull.

Some chick I had a massive crush on at High School, she had fun. She was in Florida. So she went to a Miami Heat basket ball game on christmas day and Miami Dolphins NFL game on boxing day too...

It was actually awesome.

I saw this guy playing this song (among others) here

 

[ferball]

Plenty of illegal smoking went down.

 

[Ed_Gein]

Didn't know where else to ask, but why is this country going so hard at banning vaping when they could just be treated like regular cigarettes? I.e., hidden from view up the back and only sold to people 18+. ID anyone you're unsure of the age on, etc.

Not a vaper myself outside of a month when I used it to give up tobacco. Was by far the most effective method over cold turkey, medication, patches, etc. But just curious since they're not the worst thing on your health compared to regular cigarettes and alcohol.

 

[Chief]

Make it a prescription medicine to treat nicotine addiction.

 

[mr bagcroft]

Didn't know where else to ask, but why is this country going so hard at banning vaping when they could just be treated like regular cigarettes? I.e., hidden from view up the back and only sold to people 18+. ID anyone you're unsure of the age on, etc.

Not a vaper myself outside of a month when I used it to give up tobacco. Was by far the most effective method over cold turkey, medication, patches, etc. But just curious since they're not the worst thing on your health compared to regular cigarettes and alcohol.

When they are not taxing them like cigarettes, its easy for them to ban it.
bunch of campaigners.

 

[Gethelred]

Didn't know where else to ask, but why is this country going so hard at banning vaping when they could just be treated like regular cigarettes? I.e., hidden from view up the back and only sold to people 18+. ID anyone you're unsure of the age on, etc.

Not a vaper myself outside of a month when I used it to give up tobacco. Was by far the most effective method over cold turkey, medication, patches, etc. But just curious since they're not the worst thing on your health compared to regular cigarettes and alcohol.

Because they're both actively marketed at kids - akin to the way cigarettes were to obtain addicts for like - and they're marketed as not as bad for you, despite no studies demonstrating a reduced health risk over time.

To quote a fictional lawyer:

They still go after kids with one strategy after another. They put up brightly colored ads at kid’s eye level in convenience stores. They hire gorgeous twenty-somethings to frequent popular venues and seduce young adults into attending lavish corporate-sponsored parties. Cockroaches will always find a way.

 

[Ed_Gein]

Because they're both actively marketed at kids - akin to the way cigarettes were to obtain addicts for like - and they're marketed as not as bad for you, despite no studies demonstrating a reduced health risk over time.

To quote a fictional lawyer:

Fair enough. I just think the fact they've jumped off the deep-end in regards to making it essentially prohibited to vape, whilst putting so many restrictions in place for cigarettes over the years (which are arguably a lot worse for you, anyway) for the purpose of keeping them legal shows health isn't really the primary concern; it's tax dollars.

Can't help but think the whole issue surrounding kids is a cop-out of sorts when they could put measures in place in regards to things like advertising to restrict their access to them. They will find a way to get their hands on them at times like with cigarettes and alcohol, but you won't see the government ban those anytime soon.

 

[Chief]

Can't help but think the whole issue surrounding kids is a cop-out of sorts when they could put measures in place in regards to things like advertising to restrict their access to them. They will find a way to get their hands on them at times like with cigarettes and alcohol, but you won't see the government ban those anytime soon.

As we saw with advertising bans, smoking rates dropped off a cliff.

Bans in the workplace and pubs saw more reduction.

I don't recall if plain packaging had any effect.

Best to cut this off before it gets any worse rather than let it continue.

 

[Gethelred]

Fair enough. I just think the fact they've jumped off the deep-end in regards to making it essentially prohibited to vape, whilst putting so many restrictions in place for cigarettes over the years (which are arguably a lot worse for you, anyway) for the purpose of keeping them legal shows health isn't really the primary concern; it's tax dollars.

Click on the link for the whole speech, it's pretty ****ing compelling even if it's from an American example.

Can't help but think the whole issue surrounding kids is a cop-out of sorts when they could put measures in place in regards to things like advertising to restrict their access to them. They will find a way to get their hands on them at times like with cigarettes and alcohol, but you won't see the government ban those anytime soon.

Prohibition doesn't work, so a ban isn't really feasible. But the problem is that antismoking measures created by cigarette companies are designed to make people want to smoke or are marketed towards the wrong people; doing what is necessary to comply whilst simultaneously continuing to market to children and adults.

To describe it as a copout banning their sale on protection of children grounds when cigarette companies have actively lied to people about their products health consequences whilst seeking to delay any courtroom proceedings which would hold them culpable for those lies is... so far beyond bootlicking that it's mindblowing to me.

 

[mr bagcroft]

Because they're both actively marketed at kids - akin to the way cigarettes were to obtain addicts for like - and they're marketed as not as bad for you, despite no studies demonstrating a reduced health risk over time.

To quote a fictional lawyer:

If you think that vaping could possibly harm like cigarettes can, there is no hope for you.
harmless? Not necessarily, no.
As bad as cigarettes or even close?
Nope

 

[ferball]

If you think that vaping could possibly harm like cigarettes can, there is no hope for you.
harmless? Not necessarily, no.
As bad as cigarettes or even close?
Nope

Smoke is really bad for your lungs. Vapes don't seem to have the same levels of particulate matter doing damage to the physical structure of your lungs but that doesn't mean they don't do any damage.

From personal experience I stopped smoking pot and started vaping dry weed with specific vapes built for it and the improvement in my lung function was immediate and noticeable. That's very different tho. Those things evaporate the cannabinoids off the plant material. They don't involve admixture chemicals or other substances that get used to dissolve things like nicotine or in some cases THC (there was a situation where pot vapes in the US caused deaths from the admixture chemical - vitamin E acetate.) They do have some mild effects compared to not using them but I dunno how much permanent damage they do. They also taste better and have a more pleasant effect as well as not leaving you hung over when the stuff wares off.

There doesn't seem to be any CO released by vaping ry weed and I have seen studies that confirm that but along time ago. you could probably start looking here:

Are vaporizers a lower-risk alternative to smoking cannabis?

Cannabis use is associated with various adverse physical and mental health outcomes as well as increased risk of motor vehicle collision. Many organizations and the “Lower-Risk Cannabis Use Guidelines” have recommended to use cannabis ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

One other thing I've noticed since then is that pot smoke just tastes like smoke on the rare occasions I'd share a joint with someone. Previously the strain was obvious from the taste of the smoke and also the quality of the pot and how well it was dried, cured, looked after, mold etc etc. It all tastes the same now, shit moldy leafy crap and quality manicured buds are almost indistinguishable.

Finally, food tastes better.

I'd given up tobacco years before but people I know who use nicotine vapes reckon they use them more frequently, have better lung function and spend less money than when they smoke cigarettes. This is obviously all anecdotal and from people who have smoked cigarettes for decades.

Nicotine doesn't express itself on the surface of plant matter the way cannabinoids do so it means dry vaping tobacco won't work the way dry vaping weed does.

 

[Gethelred]

If you think that vaping could possibly harm like cigarettes can, there is no hope for you.

Dude, you're a St Kilda supporter with a chip on your shoulder. You're not a scientist - if you are, share your findings with the rest of the class - and there's nothing longditudinal on the effects of vaping because it's not been round long enough.

harmless? Not necessarily, no.
As bad as cigarettes or even close?
Nope

How do you know this, in a long term perspective?

 

[mr bagcroft]

Dude, you're a St Kilda supporter with a chip on your shoulder. You're not a scientist - if you are, share your findings with the rest of the class - and there's nothing longditudinal on the effects of vaping because it's not been round long enough.

How do you know this, in a long term perspective?

Google "combustion" , and what it produces in terms of from a cigarette.
Get back to me tomorrow.

 

[Gethelred]

Google "combustion" , and what it produces in terms of from a cigarette.
Get back to me tomorrow.

... I think you're being unnecessarily rude, and you should stop before you dig too deep.

 

[Ed_Gein]

Click on the link for the whole speech, it's pretty ******* compelling even if it's from an American example.

Prohibition doesn't work, so a ban isn't really feasible. But the problem is that antismoking measures created by cigarette companies are designed to make people want to smoke or are marketed towards the wrong people; doing what is necessary to comply whilst simultaneously continuing to market to children and adults.

To describe it as a copout banning their sale on protection of children grounds when cigarette companies have actively lied to people about their products health consequences whilst seeking to delay any courtroom proceedings which would hold them culpable for those lies is... so far beyond bootlicking that it's mindblowing to me.

Total sales of manufactured cigarettes have halved over the last 17 years

Australia: legal domestic sales volume of manufactured cigarettes | Statista

In 2020, the total volume of manufactured cigarettes sold in Australia was 8.5 million kilograms, a reduction from the previous year.

www.statista.com

Whilst e-cigarette sales have more than doubled in the last 10

Australia: e-cigarette and vaping sales volume 2019 | Statista

In 2019, the sales of electronic cigarettes in Australia amounted to approximately 4.3 million units.

www.statista.com

Grim reading if you are the Australian government. Why wouldn't they want to ban e-cigarettes when they stand to lose out on quite a lot of tax revenue going forward? Trends show people would much rather vape. I still stand by my position the story of them finding their way into the hands of teenagers as a convenient excuse to get public opinion on their side in banning them. I know nicotine addiction is a serious matter and teenagers shouldn't be anywhere near products related to smoking, but to me, zero reason why they can't tighten everything related to vaping to fall in line with the way cigarettes are treated. Leave it up to responsible adults beyond that to decide whether they want to vape or not. But it's not in the governments best interest from a financial perspective.

 

[Gethelred]

Total sales of manufactured cigarettes have halved over the last 17 years

Australia: legal domestic sales volume of manufactured cigarettes | Statista

In 2020, the total volume of manufactured cigarettes sold in Australia was 8.5 million kilograms, a reduction from the previous year.

www.statista.com

Whilst e-cigarette sales have more than doubled in the last 10

Australia: e-cigarette and vaping sales volume 2019 | Statista

In 2019, the sales of electronic cigarettes in Australia amounted to approximately 4.3 million units.

www.statista.com

Grim reading if you are the Australian government. Why wouldn't they want to ban e-cigarettes when they stand to lose out on quite a lot of tax revenue going forward?

Because there's a moral dimension to go with it. It's not solely an economics decision, and treating it as one is a bit...

Trends show people would much rather vape. I still stand by my position the story of them finding their way into the hands of teenagers as a convenient excuse to get public opinion on their side in banning them.

... and?

I know nicotine addiction is a serious matter and teenagers shouldn't be anywhere near products related to smoking, but to me, zero reason why they can't tighten everything related to vaping to fall in line with the way cigarettes are treated. Leave it up to responsible adults beyond that to decide whether they want to vape or not. But it's not in the governments best interest from a financial perspective.

I have every sympathy for you and others who smoke from a freedom perspective, and am not at all for banning them completely.

However...

The 'responsible adults' excuse isn't at any point worth someone's life. It never has, and never will.

For every teenager or adult that ever begins to smoke there is a vested interest by a cigarette company to keep you smoking, whether we're talking vapes or cigarettes or cigars. For every single person who begins is a chance for them to never stop, and as a consequence they will in all probability die from it.

To treat the situation as one unmanipulated is naive.

 

[Freomaniac]

When they are not taxing them like cigarettes, its easy for them to ban it.
bunch of campaigners.

sounds about right

 

[Ed_Gein]

Because there's a moral dimension to go with it. It's not solely an economics decision, and treating it as one is a bit...

... and?

I have every sympathy for you and others who smoke from a freedom perspective, and am not at all for banning them completely.

However...

The 'responsible adults' excuse isn't at any point worth someone's life. It never has, and never will.

For every teenager or adult that ever begins to smoke there is a vested interest by a cigarette company to keep you smoking, whether we're talking vapes or cigarettes or cigars. For every single person who begins is a chance for them to never stop, and as a consequence they will in all probability die from it.

To treat the situation as one unmanipulated is naive.

So... ban them? If they are so unhealthy just like vaping, ban them. At the end of the day vaping and smoking a cigarette are two sides of the same coin, just different methods of nicotine delivery. You either heavily regulate them both to keep them legal, or you ban both on grounds related to health. It's pretty straight forward. No idea why you're trying to be so obtuse.

 

[Gethelred]

So... ban them? If they are so unhealthy just like vaping, ban them. At the end of the day vaping and smoking a cigarette are two sides of the same coin, just different methods of nicotine delivery. You either heavily regulate them both to keep them legal, or you ban both on grounds related to health. It's pretty straight forward. No idea why you're trying to be so obtuse.

Yeah, I'm struggling to avoid coming to the conclusion that you're not reading the posts you're quoting.

From earlier in this conversation:

Prohibition doesn't work, so a ban isn't really feasible.

From the post you quoted:

I have every sympathy for you and others who smoke from a freedom perspective, and am not at all for banning them completely.

You're ignoring nuance to an opinion, in order to make that opinion look unreasonable.

 

[Gough]

I was at an auction room this morning and one of the lots was a box of old Adelaide GP stuff and they had some of the old stickers that they handed out by the thousand and that we had plastered all over our school books and bags with Marlboro smack bang in the middle of it in large letters. The tobacco lobby must have been pissing themselves back then, school kids advertising cigarettes.

 

[Leeda]

Passion for the innovation..

Please don't ruin the thread with your attitude.

touching the wardlore...the current entity is slouching along the backstreets...ch...uckle...

 

[ferball]

Passion for the innovation..

touching the wardlore...the current entity is slouching along the backstreets...ch...uckle...

Do it now cos by the end of this season no one will be getting a touch on Wardlore.

 

[Leeda]

Muckle,fu...c. ..l, standard no answer will bring a tedious "rom com"

 

[Leeda]

Passion for the innovation..

 

[smauge]

I've been reading a lot about smoking bans, and as someone who smokes, I don't agree that smoking will become something people look back on badly. It seems like a lot of folks are choosing healthier options these days. I've smoked for a long time and didn't think it was all that bad, especially now that more people are quitting smoking and starting to vape because it's healthier.

For me, switching to vaping has been a really good change. It feels better for my health but still lets me enjoy something like smoking. I buy my vaping stuff from The Vapor Shoppe because their prices are decent, and I've been feeling a lot better since I switched. It's been a good move for me, keeping up with what's healthier and what a lot of other people are doing too.