Jacinta Allan - Leading a zombie government

[mighty tiges]

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Cherry picking one of the few morning peak-hour city-bound express Frankston trains. After 8.40am, city-bound Frankston trains stop all stations and that same journey takes 43-49 mins.

If we're talking Cheltenham to Monash Uni then it's at least 40 mins during peak and 50+ mins off-peak. Not to mention needing to make 2 changes of transport at Caulfield and then Huntingdale.

 

[mighty tiges]

 

[peetoo]

I reckon developers would want obrien back in charge of planning so they can build dog box apartments again.

This really does smell of a govt knowing it’s on its way out ramming throug some unpopular decisions.

If yo think the libs really are the party of the NIMBY then pm me to buy pixie dust


Post reminds me of fox footy bounce ‘turn it up’ segment

 

[tandino]

So Jacinta has a plan then, very reassuring.

 

[Satan]

So Jacinta has a plan then, very reassuring.

Concept?

 

[FruitTingles]

If she gets a statue I suggest it is placed in Brighton with her pointing to a development

 

[The Punter]

It took her a year, but she's seemed to finally get her act together politically. Yesterday was classic wedge politics from the ALP and it worked fantastically. The YIMBY group inside the Liberal Party, mostly young and of significant numbers, are furious with how yesterday's announcement was reacted to by the Parliamentary Liberal Party.

 

[Saint]

Labor being on the nose has nothing to do with what's been brought up in here. It's all COL related issues. Just like it is Federally. Imagine if they did their research like alot of posters here and got all the facts of whats really going on. I'm a Labor voter BTW and even I'm totally disengaged with what there doing. Arrogant pig headedness in particular around the SRL is the nail in the coffin and a completely wasted opportunity to fix other pressing issues around the state and it will cost them government. The problem I see is that the Libs will have a honeymoon period till basically the next election to use the " Fixing the mess we inherited" rhetoric and there won't be much of anything getting done by than either. It's a tricky spot were in right now as Victorians. Labor's only hope to get reelected next time around is for people to see the benefits of the MRT once it's up and running and the EWL as well. Can see the Libs taking credit for it which they do quite often.

You're right. By the next election, the WGTP will be complete and so will Melbourne Metro, coinciding with increasing return of working in the office.

The problem is that the completion of those projects is going to coincide with a downturn in the construction market. There's no new projects for the workers from WGTP and Melbourne Metro to move onto. There'll be significant redundancies (Or contracts expire without renewal for the contract workers). There's already redundancies in the design houses of those projects.

I wouldn't even be surprised to see a Victoria-specific jump in unemployment over the next 12 months, as the Govt is shedding jobs and workers, and so will their mega-projects soon.

 

[Saint]

It took her a year, but she's seemed to finally get her act together politically. Yesterday was classic wedge politics from the ALP and it worked fantastically. The YIMBY group inside the Liberal Party, mostly young and of significant numbers, are furious with how yesterday's announcement was reacted to by the Parliamentary Liberal Party.

It must be like shelling peas, announcing progressive policies (which are really only a bunch of relatively minor re-zoning - most of the activity centres already had zoning for dense development), which brings out the white-haired NIMBY brigade complaining that the multi-million dollar home they inherited won't appreciate as quickly if the middle-class people are allowed to live in apartments near them.

Just to remind everyone who and what the LNP stands for when it's not fighting amongst itself.

 

[The Punter]

It must be like shelling peas, announcing progressive policies (which are really only a bunch of relatively minor re-zoning - most of the activity centres already had zoning for dense development), which brings out the white-haired NIMBY brigade complaining that the multi-million dollar home they inherited won't appreciate as quickly if the middle-class people are allowed to live in apartments near them.

Just to remind everyone who and what the LNP stands for when it's not fighting amongst itself.

I think there was a time when your last sentence would have been spot on. But the issue here is this policy is going to precipitate the Liberals (this doesn't affect the Nats) fighting among themselves: you have someone like Newbury in one corner and Evan Mulholland in the other. Also, at a time when the Liberals are struggling to hold onto seats close to cities they've always held, it calls into question the commitment to courting votes outside of those areas at the expense of wealthy inner city votes. Newbury's stance on this IMO is entirely based on personal electoral survival (he holds Brighton by 5.1%, not as comfortable as it once was), but people in the outer suburbs want to see more housing anywhere to ease the pressure everywhere.

The Liberals in Victoria have tried a different path to population growth before: in 2018 they strongly advocated for growth outside of Melbourne rather than inside it, and were comprehensively rebuffed. A cogent and internally well-supported policy direction on this issue inside the party is a very narrow needle to thread, and Jacinta Allan knows this and acted accordingly this weekend. For the first time in some time Labor have the Liberals on the back foot (rather than it being self-inflicted as per the Deeming business).

 

[Saint]

I think there was a time when your last sentence would have been spot on. But the issue here is this policy is going to precipitate the Liberals (this doesn't affect the Nats) fighting among themselves: you have someone like Newbury in one corner and Evan Mulholland in the other. Also, at a time when the Liberals are struggling to hold onto seats close to cities they've always held, it calls into question the commitment to courting votes outside of those areas at the expense of wealthy inner city votes. Newbury's stance on this IMO is entirely based on personal electoral survival (he holds Brighton by 5.1%, not as comfortable as it once was), but people in the outer suburbs want to see more housing anywhere to ease the pressure everywhere.

The Liberals in Victoria have tried a different path to population growth before: in 2018 they strongly advocated for growth outside of Melbourne rather than inside it, and were comprehensively rebuffed. A cogent and internally well-supported policy direction on this issue inside the party is a very narrow needle to thread, and Jacinta Allan knows this and acted accordingly this weekend. For the first time in some time Labor have the Liberals on the back foot (rather than it being self-inflicted as per the Deeming business).

Do the Libs think the outer-suburban voters they're courting support Allan's policy?

I think outer-suburban LNP voters are the ones who prefer Urban sprawl. I think very few Lib voters (inner or outer) think that middle-suburban apartment living is something they would consider.

 

[kalex6251]

yesterdays scenes in brighton were laughable (and not in a good way) ...... expect prayer room boy is in 'high level discussions' with rebecca judd to ramp up her unique nimby-styled scare campaign

[edit] or they could wheel out wendy lovell to do her 'thang'

Victorian Liberal MP Wendy Lovell chastised for saying children in social housing ‘cannot mix’ in wealthy areas

Former housing minister accused of ‘postcode snobbery’ after saying there is ‘no point’ putting disadvantaged families in ‘best street in Brighton’

www.theguardian.com

 

[The Punter]

Do the Libs think the outer-suburban voters they're courting support Allan's policy?

I think outer-suburban LNP voters are the ones who prefer Urban sprawl. I think very few Lib voters (inner or outer) think that middle-suburban apartment living is something they would consider.

I was thinking more courting voters (those who haven't voted Liberal in 2022 or 2018) who are under housing stress - those who don't own valuable properties close to the city. From the vision I saw from Brighton yesterday, it was the property owners in that area (predominately older) who were doing the protesting.

Younger people who hope to own their own home (of whatever size or type) in the future would be supportive of more medium density housing closer to the city, and opposing the plan announced yesterday would work in opposite to moves around housing aimed to gain greater levels of support among those younger people.

We have lost the last two state elections with 2PPs at 45% or below. Clearly we need to move people from other columns into our column. That includes courting younger people, and I struggle to see how opposing this plan from the Allan Government is going to do that.

 

[Saint]

I was thinking more courting voters (those who haven't voted Liberal in 2022 or 2018) who are under housing stress - those who don't own valuable properties close to the city. From the vision I saw from Brighton yesterday, it was the property owners in that area (predominately older) who were doing the protesting.

Younger people who hope to own their own home (of whatever size or type) in the future would be supportive of more medium density housing closer to the city, and opposing the plan announced yesterday would work in opposite to moves around housing aimed to gain greater levels of support among those younger people.

We have lost the last two state elections with 2PPs at 45% or below. Clearly we need to move people from other columns into our column. That includes courting younger people, and I struggle to see how opposing this plan from the Allan Government is going to do that.

I think the people who might swing Lib are not the ones who care one way or another about apartments. I think aspirational young Lib voters are more likely to be the ones clinging to the dream of a house with a backyard.

Perhaps there's a cohort of DINK couples who might be aspirational Libs looking for affordable inner-city living. But from what I've seen of the Libs campaigns in outer suburbs is that it's focused on families Howard-battler style. Scare-crime-campaigns and anti-woke and anti-renewables etc.

 

[The Punter]

I think the people who might swing Lib are not the ones who care one way or another about apartments. I think aspirational young Lib voters are more likely to be the ones clinging to the dream of a house with a backyard.

Perhaps there's a cohort of DINK couples who might be aspirational Libs looking for affordable inner-city living. But from what I've seen of the Libs campaigns in outer suburbs is that it's focused on families Howard-battler style. Scare-crime-campaigns and anti-woke and anti-renewables etc.

I wouldn't confuse how Dutton is going to run in the next six months and what the state Libs might do (well, at least until this weekend). I also think you might not think there is a 50%+1 vote population willing to vote LNP in Victoria under any circumstance, which is a mindset the Libs simply cannot accept if they are to win. Among YIMBY elements inside the Liberal Party (and they are considerable - not an opinion, I'm reporting) the Conservatives in Canada and how they've been able to increase their support among young people through strong advocacy for housing is seen as the way to move forward. As I have said earlier, these elements are not happy with the reaction of the parliamentary party yesterday. They have some allies inside the parliamentary party.

This isn't specifically about people thinking they can live in an apartment in a 10 storey complex next to Camberwell station. This is about housing affordability more generally.

 

[Saint]

I wouldn't confuse how Dutton is going to run in the next six months and what the state Libs might do (well, at least until this weekend). I also think you might not think there is a 50%+1 vote population willing to vote LNP in Victoria under any circumstance, which is a mindset the Libs simply cannot accept if they are to win. Among YIMBY elements inside the Liberal Party (and they are considerable - not an opinion, I'm reporting) the Conservatives in Canada and how they've been able to increase their support among young people through strong advocacy for housing is seen as the way to move forward. As I have said earlier, these elements are not happy with the reaction of the parliamentary party yesterday. They have some allies inside the parliamentary party.

This isn't specifically about people thinking they can live in an apartment in a 10 storey complex next to Camberwell station. This is about housing affordability more generally.

I noticed that Dutton doubled-down on urban-sprawl with his announcement last week.

I think the whole housing crisis has so many facets and will take so much to fix that no one solution or announcement will be shown to solve anything, so it's likely that both sides will take small steps but be more focused on being seen to take action rather than worrying about if they're having an impact, since that's almost impossible to judge anyway.

I thought the activity centre announcement wasn't very different at all to the current planning controls for most of those areas. There are already 3 and 4-storey dense apartments/housing (or bigger) going up around most of these areas. And many will retain heritage protection.

 

[Bunk Moreland]

It’s something.

I doubt it’s a cohesive plan which includes services for the new residents. So it’ll be shit.

But it’s something, which is the low bar in politics these days.

Most governments spend all of their time trying hard to do nothing.

 

[peetoo]

A criticism. If there are 50 activity zones, but there’s going to be adequate dialog. Why are 25 of them not being named? Surely they are known and would allow more time for consultation

Is it boiling the political frog slowly?

 

[Not Important]

A criticism. If there are 50 activity zones, but there’s going to be adequate dialog. Why are 25 of them not being named? Surely they are known and would allow more time for consultation

Is it boiling the political frog slowly?

my reading is they are predominantly at railway stations. my main issue is the height and size of the footprint.

 

[Not Important]

love the satire. but when i read anything about the suffering peeps in brahton, like rebecca judd, influencer (whatever the f**k that is) i feel for them. life is tough there.

 

[leon123]

my reading is they are predominantly at railway stations. my main issue is the height and size of the footprint.

thats correct and I think your issue is a fair debate to have. I dont think its a debate that ACs should be the location of increased densification.

My view, have wider catchments of these ACs, but lower density ie up to say 6 story, concentrate of livability urban form outcomes

 

[Pakenhamsaint]

The Liberals in Victoria have tried a different path to population growth before: in 2018 they strongly advocated for growth outside of Melbourne rather than inside it, and were comprehensively rebuffed.

Growth outside of Melbourne really would hard without access back to Melbourne being improved.

 

[AlwaysHawks15]

You're right. By the next election, the WGTP will be complete and so will Melbourne Metro, coinciding with increasing return of working in the office.

The problem is that the completion of those projects is going to coincide with a downturn in the construction market. There's no new projects for the workers from WGTP and Melbourne Metro to move onto. There'll be significant redundancies (Or contracts expire without renewal for the contract workers). There's already redundancies in the design houses of those projects.

I wouldn't even be surprised to see a Victoria-specific jump in unemployment over the next 12 months, as the Govt is shedding jobs and workers, and so will their mega-projects soon.

I meant to say the NEL not the EWL but your right about everything else.

 

[The Punter]

Growth outside of Melbourne really would hard without access back to Melbourne being improved.

Improved regional public transport was certainly part of the 2018 manifesto.

 

[peetoo]

Improved regional public transport was certainly part of the 2018 manifesto.

Achievable cheaper than SRL?