Traded Jack Fitzpatrick [to Hawthorn for pick #94]

[Deemented]

Wasn't Vandenberg a mature age recruit?

You asked if Melbourne had promoted rookies on the list the answer is yes, good drafting good development l hope this is a sign of things to come. Watch out for Max King

 

[HeHateMe]

You asked if Melbourne had promoted rookies on the list the answer is yes, good drafting good development l hope this is a sign of things to come. Watch out for Max King

Abasi has a point of all those players mentioned have any of them developed into the quality of like a luke bruest, matt suckling or will langford?

Maybe... but the hawks players mentioned are all originally rookie listed players who spent a large apprenticeship.

Hawks development is top notch though from all area's of the draft. Hopefully Melbourne can match hawthorn in this department going forward.

 

[Deemented]

Abasi has a point of all those players mentioned have any of them developed into the quality of like a luke bruest, matt suckling or will langford?

Maybe... but the hawks players mentioned are all originally rookie listed players who spent a large apprenticeship.

Hawks development is top notch though from all area's of the draft. Hopefully Melbourne can match hawthorn in this department going forward.

I don't think that was his point, he said Melbournes development was and is shit and and I agree it was but from my point of view the club is miles ahead of where it was three years ago in all aspects. Hawthorn are clearly miles in front of the Dee's and in no way was I bagging any aspect of the hawks, I think he was trying to wind people up just didn't do a very good job.

 

[TheKITC]

Tom McDonald, Jack Viney, Neville Jetta, Max Gawn, Dean Kent, Colin Garland, Jeff Garlett, Bernie Vince, and last season Billie Stretch, Neal-Bullen, Kennedy-Harris all showed enough to demonstrate that our player development has improved. Hell, even an absolute spud like Pederson has improved his game under Roos.

I'm really not sure if you're trolling or just being dumb.

It's incredibly rich to claim that Melbourne has developed the bolded players.

Vince was a BnF winner at Adelaide and was simply pushed out of a strong midfield after some injury concerns and Melbourne made a good offer.

Garlett was outed by Carlton purely and simply because we could not put up with poor player behavior anymore. Apart from his last season at the Blues, he was every bit the player you saw this year in Demon colours and then some in a couple of his better years.

Melbourne has a shocking history of player development. Cannot even come close to comparing with clubs like Hawthorn in any sensible debate.

 

[Deemented]

It's incredibly rich to claim that Melbourne has developed the bolded players.

Vince was a BnF winner at Adelaide and was simply pushed out of a strong midfield after some injury concerns and Melbourne made a good offer.

Garlett was outed by Carlton purely and simply because we could not put up with poor player behavior anymore. Apart from his last season at the Blues, he was every bit the player you saw this year in Demon colours and then some in a couple of his better years.

Melbourne has a shocking history of player development. Cannot even come close to comparing with clubs like Hawthorn in any sensible debate.

No one was making the comparison, what was said was that the Dee's have improved markedly in this area over the last couple of years, but let's be realistic it's all about recruiting development is a buzz word, you can't polish a turd best players best results. See hawthorn as evidence

 

[TheKITC]

No one was making the comparison, what was said was that the Dee's have improved markedly in this area over the last couple of years, but let's be realistic it's all about recruiting development is a buzz word, you can't polish a turd best players best results. See hawthorn as evidence

Mmmmm think they kind of were...

Melbourne develop talls better than Hawthorn.

Nothing wrong with Melbournes development the last couple of years, before than not so great. At the end of the day Hawthorn don't win premierships because of their development they win because their the best, best players best coach the rest is just all for show.

Going on to take credit for Vince and Garlett's development as players was even more laughable.

The Dees might have taken strides recently and I hope they do, because like my club they desperately need to, but it's still pretty early days. Coming from a long way back.

 

[Blackas87]

Going on to take credit for Vince and Garlett's development as players was even more laughable.

.

Vince has turned his career around at Melbourne. He was an outside player at Adelaide heading in the wrong direction with his best behind him. Whether this is development or not Melbourne has turned Vince into an inside midfielder where he has career highs in 2015 in Contested possessions, Clearances, inside 50's, and tackles. He also had some tagging roles shutting down some of the best mids such as Dangerfield. No one would of ever called Vince a tough player at Adelaide but credit must go to Melbourne for turning him into the player he is in 2015. Garlett I agree is doing nothing that he wasn't already doing at Carlton.

 

[Deemented]

Mmmmm think they kind of were...





Going on to take credit for Vince and Garlett's development as players was even more laughable.

The Dees might have taken strides recently and I hope they do, because like my club they desperately need to, but it's still pretty early days. Coming from a long way back.

I still think it all hinges on recruiting, draft well and the development takes care of its self, add a great coach and everything else is just messing around at the edges. I don't think Carlton developed Matthew Watson badly he just isn't up to the standard, same as Fitzpatrick at the dees

 

[HeHateMe]

I still think it all hinges on recruiting, draft well and the development takes care of its self, add a great coach and everything else is just messing around at the edges. I don't think Carlton developed Matthew Watson badly he just isn't up to the standard, same as Fitzpatrick at the dees

Development is massively important. I dont know why you think otherwise.

vince is a prime example of developing a players game to be more complete.
The hawthorn philosophy over this era hasn't been draft the highest regarded kids its been get the kids with the best attitude and potential to learn.

Wright has said the difference from the VFL or even TAC cup level is to massive to just jump from one and perform at AFL level.

 

[Deemented]

Development is massively important. I dont know why you think otherwise.

vince is a prime example of developing a players game to be more complete.
The hawthorn philosophy over this era hasn't been draft the highest regarded kids its been get the kids with the best attitude and potential to learn.

Wright has said the difference from the VFL or even TAC cup level is to massive to just jump from one and perform at AFL level.

Depends how you look at it I suppose, did the Dee's develop Vince or did they recruit a talented play with a proven track record and ask him to take on a role that matched his ability. Attitude and a willingness to learn are great but I'm fairly sure it comes second to talent, Wrights so good because he finds blokes with talent that fit what Clarkson demands, great recruiting and coaching the best team, that simple. The most talented blokes develop into the best players always been the case and always will be the rest is tinkering at the edges.

 

[HeHateMe]

Depends how you look at it I suppose, did the Dee's develop Vince or did they recruit a talented play with a proven track record and ask him to take on a role that matched his ability. Attitude and a willingness to learn are great but I'm fairly sure it comes second to talent, Wrights so good because he finds blokes with talent that fit what Clarkson demands, great recruiting and coaching the best team, that simple. The most talented blokes develop into the best players always been the case and always will be the rest is tinkering at the edges.

I assure you hawthorn have taken a different mindset post the thorp/dowler mistakes. we sent our coaches and development team over to europe to study the science of learning. we brought in young coaches that shared the philosophy (Brendon Bolton) and drafted players who had the best attitude regardless of how much older they where to the bottom age (Stratton, Smith, Puopolo). its no where near as simple as your making out. Now i dont assume you would know more about hawthorn then i, so dont worry but hopefully this will shed some light on to the reasons why many informed hawks supporters can see light at the end of the tunnel in regards to Fitzpatrick. his apatite to learn and make the most out of his self will fit in comfortably at hawthorn he might even play games next year, his attitude is very similar to Ceglers when he came over.

 

[Deemented]

I assure you hawthorn have taken a different mindset post the thorp/dowler mistakes. we sent our coaches and development team over to europe to study the science of learning. we brought in young coaches that shared the philosophy (Brendon Bolton) and drafted players who had the best attitude regardless of how much older they where to the bottom age (Stratton, Smith, Puopolo). its no where near as simple as your making out. Now i dont assume you would know more about hawthorn then i, so dont worry but hopefully this will shed some light on to the reasons why many informed hawks supporters can see light at the end of the tunnel in regards to Fitzpatrick. his apatite to learn and make the most out of his self will fit in comfortably at hawthorn he might even play games next year, his attitude is very similar to Ceglers when he came over.

It's absolutely as easy as I'm making out, hawthorn win because they have a larger percentage of high end talent than any other club and the best coach of the last 20 years combined with fantastic recruiting and list management that's second to none, everything else is an add on the 1 maybe 2 percent if your lucky. Hawthorn are light years in front of Melbourne for many reasons, the main one being recruitment of many more talented players its that simple

 

[HeHateMe]

It's absolutely as easy as I'm making out, hawthorn win because they have a larger percentage of high end talent than any other club and the best coach of the last 20 years combined with fantastic recruiting and list management that's second to none, everything else is an add on the 1 maybe 2 percent if your lucky. Hawthorn are light years in front of Melbourne for many reasons, the main one being recruitment of many more talented players its that simple

alright mate

 

[Lethality]

I think Hawthorn's biggest strength is they don't rely on any one player in any position. Everyone seemed surprised that Hawthorn didn't fall away with their injuries last year, but as a fan it's obvious that we were never going to be affected due to depth and versatility all over the ground.

 

[Deemented]

alright mate

Sweet

 

[Deemented]

I think Hawthorn's biggest strength is they don't rely on any one player in any position. Everyone seemed surprised that Hawthorn didn't fall away with their injuries last year, but as a fan it's obvious that we were never going to be affected due to depth and versatility all over the ground.

I think Hawthorn's biggest strength is they don't rely on any one player in any position. Everyone seemed surprised that Hawthorn didn't fall away with their injuries last year, but as a fan it's obvious that we were never going to be affected due to depth and versatility all over the ground.

That sounds fair enough to me, best team won for the third year in a row

 

[MistyAvalon]

The rules need to change!!

How can the Hawks win 3 straight and pick up the 2015 captain of an AFL representive team ??

it's not exactly like we get first picks. Anyone we get who is any good is done by clever negotiations

 

[MistyAvalon]

not sure why the Dees got rid of him but hope he dominates in the future

I can only tell you what a mate of mine said.. Dees fan... good riddance, but you have Clarko, you will fix all the faults