Oppo Camp Jack Ginnivan (Traded to Hawks 2023)

[Bogsey]

If Fly and Wrightie wanted him, he would still be with us.

This is totally correct.

And while we don't know why for a fact, you can tell they were very eager to get him out the club. Accepting what we did for him is a joke. And the timing of it, on the last day, with so little talk leading up to it, feels like Wright had it lined up for a while and took little time for it to go down so he could limit the media on it. Definitely seems like a Wright type move.

Makes me disappointed in the club that they couldn't resolve whatever issue Fly and Wright had with him.

 

[domus]

This all makes it easier to see him go. He's gone. Long live the mighty Shultz!

 

[VinnieB]

This is totally correct.

And while we don't know why for a fact, you can tell they were very eager to get him out the club. Accepting what we did for him is a joke. And the timing of it, on the last day, with so little talk leading up to it, feels like Wright had it lined up for a while and took little time for it to go down so he could limit the media on it. Definitely seems like a Wright type move.

Makes me disappointed in the club that they couldn't resolve whatever issue Fly and Wright had with him.

I think is may have been as simple as him not being required. Not many positions Ginnivan can play, and he is behind Hill, Schultz and MCreery in the forward line. Another season and McInnes and Harrison probably would be offering the team more than what Ginnivan (in terms of skill set and flexibility).

 

[Anzacday]

Makes me disappointed in the club that they couldn't resolve whatever issue Fly and Wright had with him.

If, they chose to move him on then I’m happy to back them.
The snap around the corner in the GF annoyed some, (including me).
Steelo told Jack to do a drop punt and he ignored him.
Just pretend for a moment Fly said do the basics no around the corner snaps today.
Jack was the only one with a set shot who did it, that’s enough there - bye Jack.

 

[NMBB]

If, they chose to move him then I’m happy to back them.
The snap around the corner in GF annoyed some, (including me).
Steelo told Jack to do a drop punt and he ignored him.
Just pretend for a moment Fly said do the basics no around the corner snaps today.
Jack was the only one with a set shot who did it, that’s enough there - bye Jack.

Can forgive the Moonee Valley thing - ignoring Sidey's advice and then missing the shot in a GF decided by less than a goal is less forgiveable

 

[manicpie]

 

[76woodenspooners]

Makes me disappointed in the club that they couldn't resolve whatever issue Fly and Wright had with him.

Um …

… we just won the 2023 Premiership, how could you possibly be disappointed in the club?

I get that Ginni was a fan favourite, and he’s great for the highlight reels …

… but let’s not kid ourselves, there’s more to winning games of footy and Premierships than flashy highlights. And Ginni struggled to get selected this season. And if Adams hadn’t done his hammy, Ginni may very well have missed out on being a Premiership player.

 

[jathanas]

This is totally correct.

And while we don't know why for a fact, you can tell they were very eager to get him out the club. Accepting what we did for him is a joke. And the timing of it, on the last day, with so little talk leading up to it, feels like Wright had it lined up for a while and took little time for it to go down so he could limit the media on it. Definitely seems like a Wright type move.

Makes me disappointed in the club that they couldn't resolve whatever issue Fly and Wright had with him.

It's not up to Wright and Fly to "resolve" any issues with Ginni. They provide an environment where players feel valued and they set standards.

It was up to Ginni to embrace the team ethos. He was given ample opportunity, that's undeniable.

Can't have the tail waging the dog.

 

[Bogsey]

I think is may have been as simple as him not being required. Not many positions Ginnivan can play, and he is behind Hill, Schultz and MCreery in the forward line. Another season and McInnes and Harrison probably would be offering the team more than what Ginnivan (in terms of skill set and flexibility).

If that's the case, why would we let a talented kid walk for practically nothing.

Can forgive the Moonee Valley thing - ignoring Sidey's advice and then missing the shot in a GF decided by less than a goal is less forgiveable

I wouldn't trade a bloke for 1 decision he made in the GF. Lots of players mad lots of mistakes on the GF.

we just won the 2023 Premiership, how could you possibly be disappointed in the club?

Those 2 things are exclusive of one another. Proud to win a premiership? Yes. Disappointed that a senior coach and director of football can't resolve the issue of the situation? Yes

It's not up to Wright and Fly to "resolve" any issues with Ginni. They provide an environment where players feel valued and they set standards.

It was up to Ginni to embrace the team ethos. He was given ample opportunity, that's undeniable.

Can't have the tail waging the dog.

The club has put a lot more for so many past players! From Fly's own admission, he was the hardest training play for a month in the last half of the year even when he wasn’t in the senior team. To me that's embracing the team ethos!

My point is, he's a young kid with a lot of talent, he was let go for very little in return and there were signs all along that he was being pushed out. And to me, that's really disappointing

 

[sr36]

If, they chose to move him then I’m happy to back them.
The snap around the corner in GF annoyed some, (including me).
Steelo told Jack to do a drop punt and he ignored him.
Just pretend for a moment Fly said do the basics no around the corner snaps today.
Jack was the only one with a set shot who did it, that’s enough there - bye Jack.

Round the corner kicks aren't lairising. They're the basics for many players in many positions on the ground. Ginni didn't hit it that well and it fell short by a foot or two. If he hits a drop punt like that from there it makes the distance but misses by metres to the left.

 

[jathanas]

If that's the case, why would we let a talented kid walk for practically nothing.

I wouldn't trade a bloke for 1 decision he made in the GF. Lots of players mad lots of mistakes on the GF.

Those 2 things are exclusive of one another. Proud to win a premiership? Yes. Disappointed that a senior coach and director of football can't resolve the issue of the situation? Yes

The club has put a lot more for so many past players! From Fly's own admission, he was the hardest training play for a month in the last half of the year even when he wasn’t in the senior team. To me that's embracing the team ethos!

My point is, he's a young kid with a lot of talent, he was let go for very little in return and there were signs all along that he was being pushed out. And to me, that's really disappointing

The club has forgiven JDG indiscretions (now a model citizen under Fly) but Ginni was also given his chances.

Maybe I'm not being fair but he lost me with the night at the races the night before the GF, and his refusal to line up straight for his shot at goal during the GF.

I think he lost Fly as well.

 

[windchimes]

The club has forgiven JDG indiscretions (now a model citizen under Fly) but Ginni was also given his chances.

Maybe I'm not being fair but he lost me with the night at the races the night before the GF, and his refusal to line up straight for his shot at goal during the GF.

I think he lost Fly as well.

Fly did seem to give the impression he was finally a bit fed up with Ginni after the granny. His initial 'read the room' comments did seem a bit tongue in cheek, but his subsequent comments in some of his other media appearances did seem to have undertones of denunciation in them, so to speak.

I think what distinguishes the JDG and Ginnivan situations (other than the former being much more talented) is that with Jordy you could never fault his output on field and the way he conducted and applied himself in games. He's always been one to have his game-face on from the opening bounce and consistently stepped up in the big moments (the 2018 finals series comes to mind)

I don't think Ginnivan's iffy defensive efforts on field, attempting snap kicks from 40m out and then carrying on about himself on social media is the sort of buy-in that Fly wants from our players - whereas in spite of JDG's personal life blunders, he's always been a hard-working team-first sort of player.

I did have a soft spot for Ginni and will never resent him, but one of those two examples is acting like a 'winner', and the other one unfortunately isn't.

 

[jathanas]

Round the corner kicks aren't lairising. They're the basics for many players in many positions on the ground. Ginni didn't hit it that well and it fell short by a foot or two. If he hits a drop punt like that from there it makes the distance but misses by metres to the left.

Surely the angle has a bit to do with it. Ginni was 40 out, and the angle didn't justify a "round the corner" kick IMO. Line it up and take a proper shot; it's a GF FFS.

Fly did seem to give the impression he was finally a bit fed up with Ginni after the granny. His initial 'read the room' comments did seem a bit tongue in cheek, but his subsequent comments in some of his other media appearances did seem to have undertones of denunciation in them, so to speak.

I think what distinguishes the JDG and Ginnivan situations (other than the former being much more talented) is that with Jordy you could never fault his output on field and the way he conducted and applied himself in games. He's always been one to have his game-face on from the opening bounce and consistently stepped up in the big moments (the 2018 finals series comes to mind)

I don't think Ginnivan's iffy defensive efforts on field, attempting snap kicks from 40m out and then carrying on about himself on social media is the sort of buy-in that Fly wants from our players - whereas in spite of JDG's personal life blunders, he's always been a hard-working team-first sort of player.

I did have a soft spot for Ginni and will never resent him, but one of those two examples is acting like a 'winner', and the other one unfortunately isn't.

I read Fly's words the same way. He lost faith in Ginni.

Another way we can contrast the Jordy situation is to observe at how the renewed environment and support structure has helped him. How much happier he is in his job.

We can safely conclude that it's not the CFC as a workplace, it was Ginni's attitude that led to the exit.

P.S: Your posts are always high quality Chimer, you should give the old man a hand... help him lift his game a little.

 

[VinnieB]

If that's the case, why would we let a talented kid walk for practically nothing.

I wouldn't trade a bloke for 1 decision he made in the GF. Lots of players mad lots of mistakes on the GF.

Those 2 things are exclusive of one another. Proud to win a premiership? Yes. Disappointed that a senior coach and director of football can't resolve the issue of the situation? Yes

The club has put a lot more for so many past players! From Fly's own admission, he was the hardest training play for a month in the last half of the year even when he wasn’t in the senior team. To me that's embracing the team ethos!

My point is, he's a young kid with a lot of talent, he was let go for very little in return and there were signs all along that he was being pushed out. And to me, that's really disappointing

Personally, I think he is a clever player but very limited. Despite his age, I don’t think there’s much upside. In fact, we may have seen his best already. His lack of pace makes him drop to the ground searching for free kicks. Was a fringe player this year, and really didn’t do much to keep his spot in the team.

 

[jathanas]

Personally, I think he is a clever player but very limited. Despite his age, I don’t think there’s much upside. In fact, we may have seen his best already. His lack of pace makes him drop to the ground searching for free kicks. Was a fringe player this year, and really didn’t do much to keep his spot in the team.

You've perfectly encapsulated how I feel about sr36 's posting.

 

[manicpie]

Fly did seem to give the impression he was finally a bit fed up with Ginni after the granny. His initial 'read the room' comments did seem a bit tongue in cheek, but his subsequent comments in some of his other media appearances did seem to have undertones of denunciation in them, so to speak.

I think what distinguishes the JDG and Ginnivan situations (other than the former being much more talented) is that with Jordy you could never fault his output on field and the way he conducted and applied himself in games. He's always been one to have his game-face on from the opening bounce and consistently stepped up in the big moments (the 2018 finals series comes to mind)

I don't think Ginnivan's iffy defensive efforts on field, attempting snap kicks from 40m out and then carrying on about himself on social media is the sort of buy-in that Fly wants from our players - whereas in spite of JDG's personal life blunders, he's always been a hard-working team-first sort of player.

I did have a soft spot for Ginni and will never resent him, but one of those two examples is acting like a 'winner', and the other one unfortunately isn't.

I believe the read the room comments relate to the players like McStay and Adams who were in the room but missed out.

 

[RuFiO]

He needs the footy served on a silver platter to him to have remotely any effect.
Otherwise he's useless if he can't play for a free since he's the slowest player to have ever played in the AFL besides Lipinski.

 

[manicpie]

Old manic doesn't see a long future for ginni. No pace or leading smarts and doesn't do front end centre very well. The biggest problem is he has lost his impeccable accuracy in front of goal. I know others disagree but I think I will be proven right

 

[Fat Jesus]

Old manic doesn't see a long future for ginni. No pace or leading smarts and doesn't do front end centre very well. The biggest problem is he has lost his impeccable accuracy in front of goal. I know others disagree but I think I will be proven right

Agree mate. Not that great in forward pressure either.
Going to the night races before a GF was a really bad idea as well.
Oh well, at least he has a premiership medal.
I thank him for that eventhough he wasn't too flash on the day.

 

[Markfs]

I dont follow this stuff forensically but it seems to me that he was on a trip to bali...... then he came back and met with hawthorn....and then he went to training at the club ....and he posted on instagram about not leaving.....and then all the instagram vanished and he was traded...

So it seems to me that he was making an each way bet meeting with hawthorn before the pies even went serious with the trade....or maybe he met with mitchell because he "read the room". It just seems to me that he wasnt that desperate to stay. You could argue that he was a little like adams in that regard. You might even argue grundy was in that boat too. I heard him say recently that he wsa preparing to see out his contract with the club when they traded him. I dont think that kind of attitude wins friends.

I think if someone's ambivalent, then the club will move em on. If players are going to be looking at their options one year, then they'll do it when contracts are up for negotiation. You cant run a serious salary cap unless everyone wants to be there, and they are a drain on establishing a collective spirit in the club. I just get the feeling that there was disconnect between ginnivan and the people at the club, and that he's been an individual for so long, he was set in his ways.

Of course, all that could be wrong and he might be gone because we dont need him.

 

[manicpie]

Agree mate. Not that great in forward pressure either.
Going to the night races before a GF was a really bad idea as well.
Oh well, at least he has a premiership medal.
I thank him for that eventhough he wasn't too flash on the day.

As you know, I've been aware of his exploits since he was a teenager and he never missed a set shot. He took that into the AFL but it wasn't long before he lost his radar and that was always going to be a problem

 

[VinnieB]

I dont follow this stuff forensically but it seems to me that he was on a trip to bali...... then he came back and met with hawthorn....and then he went to training at the club ....and he posted on instagram about not leaving.....and then all the instagram vanished and he was traded...

So it seems to me that he was making an each way bet meeting with hawthorn before the pies even went serious with the trade....or maybe he met with mitchell because he "read the room". It just seems to me that he wasnt that desperate to stay. You could argue that he was a little like adams in that regard. You might even argue grundy was in that boat too. I heard him say recently that he wsa preparing to see out his contract with the club when they traded him. I dont think that kind of attitude wins friends.

I think if someone's ambivalent, then the club will move em on. If players are going to be looking at their options one year, then they'll do it when contracts are up for negotiation. You cant run a serious salary cap unless everyone wants to be there, and they are a drain on establishing a collective spirit in the club. I just get the feeling that there was disconnect between ginnivan and the people at the club, and that he's been an individual for so long, he was set in his ways.

Of course, all that could be wrong and he might be gone because we dont need him.

From memory his manager had said basically that the Pies were happy for him to look for a new club ‘without actually saying it’. He disputed Wright’s comment that the Pies hadn’t instigated a trade for Ginnivan. I wouldn’t be surprised if Ginnivan had no intention of leaving, but his manager made him realise his future lay elsewhere.

 

[FromTheBoundaryLine]

Loved Ginni and the media commentary in his break out season was a disgrace. I can forgive a young bloke experimenting with drugs (would be a pot/kettle thing for me to criticise that). However I must admit I had misgivings this season when he came back into the team. What worried me was his remonstrations to team mates if he perceived they had taken the wrong option by choosing not to kick it to him. Josh Daicos

7

Josh Daicos

Age

25

Ht

178cm

Wt

77kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

15.6

4star

K

8.3

3star

HB

7.3

5star

M

3.3

3star

T

3.6

5star

CL

1.3

3star

D

16.2

4star

K

9.2

4star

HB

7.0

4star

M

3.3

3star

T

3.5

4star

CL

1.5

4star

D

13.8

4star

K

7.6

3star

HB

6.2

4star

M

3.2

4star

T

4.2

5star

CL

1.2

4star

fobbed him off on one occasion when he remonstrated and it happened quite a few times. Just didn’t feel right. Going into the GF he was the only player I was nervous about discipline wise. To be honest when the trade was announced I felt it was a good call especially given Shultz coming to us. I reckon he could probably see that staying in the team was going to get harder and although he had some time in midfield in the seconds I don’t think even Jack would seriously consider himself a serious contender in the guts even part time. If he does I think he might be rating himself a bit highly. He brought us great joy and I hope he goes on and has a good career but I reckon both Ginni and Adams leaving will benefit the Club despite not wanting either to go and being surprised when it came about.
I suspect Wrighty probably thought the same.

 

[NMBB]

wouldn't trade a bloke for 1 decision he made in the GF. Lots of players mad lots of mistakes on the GF.

My post was not about him missing the shot per se. I was referring to the fact that he seemed to ignore an experienced player's advice and his subsequent decision didn't work out which could have been costly - thankfully Sidey was able to show him how to kick a goal

I'm sure he wasn't traded for any single act on or off field. I'm also pretty sure Wrighty and Fly know what they're doing. I'm also sure we don't know ALL the reasons the club took the decision they took.

 

[Markfs]

From memory his manager had said basically that the Pies were happy for him to look for a new club ‘without actually saying it’. He disputed Wright’s comment that the Pies hadn’t instigated a trade for Ginnivan. I wouldn’t be surprised if Ginnivan had no intention of leaving, but his manager made him realise his future lay elsewhere.

well there seems to be a communication problem somewhere in there and that would seem surprising after a premiership...and the thing about telling players to look around, I think that happened to mason cox a couple of years ago when they were going to recontract him at a more realistic price...I dont think it means that the club wants him out. They probably said to him that if wanted to find a club that was a bit more forgiving, then go right ahead...we'll just have to wait for the book