Traded Jaeger O'Meara [traded to Hawthorn for pick 10 and GWS's 2017 2nd rd pick] - Part 2

[cryptor]

It's this attitude that irritates me; that there is something inherent in the Hawthorn football club that ensures success. It's nonsense. You have been fortunate to witness two very successful periods in recent history, governed by completely different on-field and off-field personnel. You also witnessed some 15 years of mediocrity, in which the club almost folded, run by different personnel. There's no guarantees you don't go the path of Brisbane, particularly as the key people behind your success move on. There's nothing about 'the club' that will ensure it doesn't happen.

As for the trade, typical AFL, finding new ways to appear amateur.

A lot of the personnel responsible for this period of success are still seeing this changing of the guard. Alastair Clarkson, Stuart Fox, Luke Hodge, Graham Wright, Andrew Russell, etc. So nothing wrong with what he said about Hawthorn (this iteration led by the formerly mentioned) not accepting mediocrity. Maybe I didn't read his post thoroughly enough but I didn't see anything that meant you had to take the reference to "Hawthorn" to mean the club throughout it's entire existence (which has clearly had lengthy periods of mediocrity throughout its history). I thought the context was pretty obviously referring to the club under the Clarkson era. Nor did I automatically take "Hawthorn doesn't accept mediocrity" to infer that all the other clubs do. But that's just me though.

 

[Vindicater]

It's this attitude that irritates me; that there is something inherent in the Hawthorn football club that ensures success. It's nonsense. You have been fortunate to witness two very successful periods in recent history, governed by completely different on-field and off-field personnel. You also witnessed some 15 years of mediocrity, in which the club almost folded, run by different personnel. There's no guarantees you don't go the path of Brisbane, particularly as the key people behind your success move on. There's nothing about 'the club' that will ensure it doesn't happen.

As for the trade, typical AFL, finding new ways to appear amateur.

Don't worry.

Once they fall back to the pack their fans will fall off the face of the planet.

 

[Upgrayedd]

It's time for this wonderful thread to end.

Let's all agree that Tony Cochrane's grandstanding was very cute and we look forward to St Kilda burning those draft picks on some unsuspecting kid.

Hawthorn got their man and sold the farm to do it.

Jaeger get your Dodgy knee off that hard concrete!!!1

 

[Procrastinator35]

The AFL have come out with an official & final explanation....At last.

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

It's this attitude that irritates me; that there is something inherent in the Hawthorn football club that ensures success. It's nonsense.

The available evidence says it isn't.

And this Melbourne supporter certainly doesn't think so either.
https://medium.com/@timyell1/why-hawthorn-fc-are-the-best-team-in-the-afl-aca78cd2f4f6#.tep2fou5d

 

[Dirty_banchez]

AFL ****ed up big time here.

1) The 2e trade should have been nixed as I'm unsure how Geelong will be able to make 2 1st round selections in 4 years. Obviously the will have to trade, but what if no club wants to trade them a 1st rounder?

2) “Should a club trade its future first round selection, it may not trade any other future selection for that same draft.” - interpreted literally and the Hawks should not be able to trade their future 2nd round pick.

The AFL are seriously lacking in credibility right now.

 

[Procrastinator35]

It's this attitude that irritates me; that there is something inherent in the Hawthorn football club that ensures success. It's nonsense. You have been fortunate to witness two very successful periods in recent history, governed by completely different on-field and off-field personnel. You also witnessed some 15 years of mediocrity, in which the club almost folded, run by different personnel. There's no guarantees you don't go the path of Brisbane, particularly as the key people behind your success move on. There's nothing about 'the club' that will ensure it doesn't happen.

Since 1971 we have averaged a Flag every 4 years....There have been 3 distinct eras: 70's, 80's & current....We have made a Preliminary final on average, almost every second year, during that time. Almost every 2.5 years, we have made a Grand final in that time....All that, in spite of our 15 years in the wilderness, as you point out; when we lost our mojo.

So, in 46 years, that's 21 Preliminary finals & 17 Grand Finals; for 12 Premierships.....The stats don't lie.

We now have the highest membership of all clubs (75,000+), which, when compared to when I first became a member in 1978. (8,000) is astronomical.

And yes; Success is EXPECTED....That's the culture John Kennedy instilled into our football club.... A club which he still frequents, to this day.

 

[Off The Couch]

It's this attitude that irritates me; that there is something inherent in the Hawthorn football club that ensures success. It's nonsense. You have been fortunate to witness two very successful periods in recent history, governed by completely different on-field and off-field personnel. You also witnessed some 15 years of mediocrity, in which the club almost folded, run by different personnel. There's no guarantees you don't go the path of Brisbane, particularly as the key people behind your success move on. There's nothing about 'the club' that will ensure it doesn't happen.

As for the trade, typical AFL, finding new ways to appear amateur.

Your pov is interesting because I've always thought that the Eagles were similar in their thinking.

 

[Zach Package]

So the rule has been in place for 2 years and circumvented twice, what's the point? If you want to roll the dice you should be allowed to do so IMO, you're only going to hurt yourself.

The one that stinks is the Vickery one for a variety of reasons, not least because it slides every other club back in the draft order.

 

[DAWESOME!!]

I don't care about the O'Meara trade one way or another now that it's done, but left shaking my head reading that Hun article about the AFL yet again getting caught out making it all up as they go along. The same sloppiness they apply to framing and tinkering with the rules of the game permeates everything else they do.

What a bunch of half-baked amateurs. Laughable.

 

[Farm Boy]

I don't care about the O'Meara trade one way or another now that it's done, but left shaking my head reading that Hun article about the AFL yet again getting caught out making it all up as they go along. The same sloppiness they apply to framing and tinkering with the rules of the game permeates everything else they do.

What a bunch of half-baked amateurs. Laughable.

The longer this goes on the more harm it is doing to football.

 

[Spook]

this logic makes beyond 0 sense to be.

for example jom might not come one, smith could go hodge and burger retires and lewis wins the bnf easily, and the clubs saying after all of that they still wouldn't bring him back. dont believe it

Or it could be easily argued that Hawthorn have showed yet again that they are proactive not reactive.

 

[Foxx]

Seems like a case of "we know this is not right but we will let it through, and just say we buggered up later on to cover our arse"

 

[footyfan1978]

AFL stuffed up big time here.

“Should a club trade its future first round selection, it may not trade any other future selection for that same draft.” - interpreted literally and the Hawks should not be able to trade their future 2nd round pick.

The AFL are seriously lacking in credibility right now.

You obviously do not realise that is why Hawthorn did the trade with SOS.
Hawthorn needed to have another future pick for 2017 from 2nd round in order to be able to trade their own 2nd rounder to Gold Coast.
SOS traded them that future round pick for round 2 that then enabled them to be allowed to trade the other one Gold Coast had obviously asked for in that final hour.

 

[footyfan1978]

So the rule has been in place for 2 years and circumvented twice, what's the point? If you want to roll the dice you should be allowed to do so IMO, you're only going to hurt yourself.

Yes, Geelong traded their 1st round selection future picks two years in a row to us.
What that means is they have to keep their first round picks for 2018 and 2019 so that it satisfies the ruling of have two 1st round picks over 4 years.

Although the way I look at it, if Geelong pick up another 1st rounder from someone else in next trade period that then allows them to still trade another 1st rounder of 2018, if they so wish to do. But they need to get hold of another one to be able to trade a future 1st rounder again.

It is quite clear a year after the future pick trades were allowed the understandings of it is very lacking both in industry and in the media.

 

[Silky]

Yes, Geelong traded their 1st round selection future picks two years in a row to us.
What that means is they have to keep their first round picks for 2018 and 2019 so that it satisfies the ruling of have two 1st round picks over 4 years.

Although the way I look at it, if Geelong pick up another 1st rounder from someone else in next trade period that then allows them to still trade another 1st rounder of 2018, if they so wish to do. But they need to get hold of another one to be able to trade a future 1st rounder again.

It is quite clear a year after the future pick trades were allowed the understandings of it is very lacking both in industry and in the media.

The last time Geelong 'used' their first round pick was in 2014:

'14 - Cockatoo
'15 - traded to Adel for Danger
'16 - traded to Carl for Henderson
'17 - traded to Carl for Tuohy

That effectively means one use of a first-rounder in 4 years, irrespective of whether they use their next two first rounders in '18 and '19.

I heard an explanation that the Danger trade for a first rounder counted as a 'used' pick in '15 since Danger came back the other way in the 'same year'. There's been no confirmation from the AFL as to why they were allowed. I'd love to hear the explanation.


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[footyfan1978]

The last time Geelong 'used' their first round pick was in 2014:

'14 - Cockatoo
'15 - traded to Adel for Danger
'16 - traded to Carl for Henderson
'17 - traded to Carl for Tuohy

That effectively means one use of a first-rounder in 4 years, irrespective of whether they use their next two first rounders in '18 and '19.

I heard an explanation that the Danger trade for a first rounder counted as a 'used' pick in '15 since Danger came back the other way in the 'same year'. There's been no confirmation from the AFL as to why they were allowed. I'd love to hear the explanation.

It is a good question.
I suspect because the future picks for 2016 were the first ones traded that rule centred around the introduction of trading future picks starts from the year those picks are alive.
I think it means from 2016 to 2019 Geelong need to have two 1st round selection.

That was just my interpretation of it though but from everything I saw this trade period it seems to fit with what we seen gone on.

 

[Max zero]

Your pov is interesting because I've always thought that the Eagles were similar in their thinking.

Actually you are right. The problem is that this is not a good thing. I think 2016 WC was a good example of just expecting success to come as part of a natural progression instead of working for it.

Need to always be evolving and improving.

 

[threesixpio]

#Freepickhawthorn

This is actually quite funny.

But what I find weird here is that Hawthorn is getting all the attention.

 

[Gavin Excell]

Hawks don't accept mediocrity. The thought of casually fading into the wilderness doesn't suit us, so we're going balls out on a rebuild.

We've done it before. Nobody would dare trade out their two best kpp (Thompson and hay in consecutive years). Everyone predicted the worst. Result? Jordan Lewis and Max Bailey. (Bailey shot down by 3 knee recos but still a premiership ruckman)

We did before as well in 2001. Croad and McPharlin out - Mitchell and hodge in.

So here we are again in 2016. Hawks make a big call and instead of pushing out players that everyone thinks we are crazy for we are now pushing out draft picks and senior players that everyone thinks we are crazy for.

The difference is that we have gone from loading up on early picks (which overall really didn't work for us, especially if you look at all our early 2005 picks) but conveniently worked in the examples above. Now we've loaded up on young quality midfielders.

While everyone else takes a moderate approach, snagging a star if they can get one, Hawks go and get 2 in a single offseason (not taking Vickery by the way) and flag intentions to do it again next year.

Sydney did this. Loaded up on Tippett and Franklin. They don't have to worry so much about draft because those get Heeny and mills from the academy.

Geelong went down a different path. Sure they got danger but they loaded up on role players to transition: Clark, Stanley, Henderson, zac smith, Sam blease, Scott selwood and menegola. 7 players from other teams within 2 offseasons. Can't say it's been a resounding success but they made a prelim in the face of a bunch of their old players leaving.

The good clubs, the ones that make the top 4 do extreme things.

Those that follow common wisdom and jump on someone else's wave will never get ahead. Might pop up for a season or two, but it's the extreme approaches that result in sustained success.

Respectfully disagree.

Reality is Geelongs and Hawks success over last 10 years was built around a core group of youngsters taken in the draft.

Both clubs recent years are refusing to take their medicine that comes with the cycle by topping up with established players.

It will keep you in the finals but you won't be flag material.

Im concerned in Geelongs case we wont have had a first round pick in 5 years as we are selling not only current year but future year picks. Theres no future in that if you want to challenge.

Some mediocre times ahead for both clubs methinks

 

[threesixpio]

Respectfully disagree.

Reality is Geelongs and Hawks success over last 10 years was built around a core group of youngsters taken in the draft.

Both clubs recent years are refusing to take their medicine that comes with the cycle by topping up with established players.

It will keep you in the finals but you won't be flag material.

Im concerned in Geelongs case we wont have had a first round pick in 5 years as we are selling not only current year but future year picks. Theres no future in that if you want to challenge.

Some mediocre times ahead for both clubs methinks

Yeah - I think there is massive pressure on second and third tier players to come good. If it happens fantastic otherwise not so.

We likely see JOM like a top 5 pick though and he is still quite young. By getting Tom Mitchell and JOM we are trying to get the equivalent of 2 top 5 picks

The real issue for me is who plays around them in years to come. That's why the development of second tier and third tier players is pivotal.

Some of your younger crew have gone alright

 

[Gavin Excell]

The suggestion also that teams that dont adopt this path are doomed is BS too. Dogs rebuilt patiently with excellent early draft picks nailed complemented by good trading. Dare say Dogs future is brighter than Cats and Hawks

 

[footyfan1978]

The subject heading is wrong by the way.
Giants 2nd round selection of 2017 is not what was traded. Hawks 2nd round selection is the one Gold Coast got.

Incredible it has taken over three days for media and most of you to catch on what I posted late Friday night. Thread title still not updated...lol

 

[Furn2]

The last time Geelong 'used' their first round pick was in 2014:

'14 - Cockatoo
'15 - traded to Adel for Danger
'16 - traded to Carl for Henderson
'17 - traded to Carl for Tuohy

That effectively means one use of a first-rounder in 4 years, irrespective of whether they use their next two first rounders in '18 and '19.

I heard an explanation that the Danger trade for a first rounder counted as a 'used' pick in '15 since Danger came back the other way in the 'same year'. There's been no confirmation from the AFL as to why they were allowed. I'd love to hear the explanation.


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If Geelong use only 1 next year that will 1 in 4 years, so as punishment they can't trade their 2018 first rounder.

 

[LukeHodge15]

If Geelong use only 1 next year that will 1 in 4 years, so as punishment they can't trade their 2018 first rounder.

I thought it was 2 x 1st every rolling 4 years. If that's true, Geelong already broken it by trading next year's future. Afl are such amateurs