Jaeger O'Meara

[Captain chaos]

O'Meara's biggest issue is fading out of games after halftime. He routinely gathers around twenty first half possies only to end up with mid/high twenties at the end.
Not sure if it's an aerobic thing or if his crook knee's getting sore after the main break but I'm sure he's acutely aware of it.
That said, 3rd in the b&f is reflective of a very solid 2019 and he should only improve after another pre season + the return of Mitchell

Interesting... serviceable player..B plus at best.

 

[La Dispute]

So the choice is either:

a) Jaeger O'Meara's possessions benefit the opposition team more than his own, to such an extent that tagging him is like taking away one of your own players.
OR
b) Carlton can't string together four quarters of football.

From what we can see here it is actually:

A) JOM isn’t that damaging. In spite of having something ridiculous like 26 possessions to half time the team was still down by 30 odd points.
B) We shouldn’t have bothered changing tactics, partly due to A.

 

[matey]

After a solid year expect JOM to go to another level. He has benefited from getting games under his belt last two years and Hawks starting to build some midfield depth which should release him around contests.

 

[Iceman!]

From what we can see here it is actually:

A) JOM isn’t that damaging. In spite of having something ridiculous like 26 possessions to half time the team was still down by 30 odd points.
B) We shouldn’t have bothered changing tactics, partly due to A.

No that is a far too simplistic way to look at it, is Cripps not a damaging player when he dominates a game and Carlton get pumped? Or was his supporting cast just not up to scratch?

 

[La Dispute]

No that is a far too simplistic way to look at it, is Cripps not a damaging player when he dominates a game and Carlton get pumped? Or was his supporting cast just not up to scratch?

The latter.

Hawthorn have a more mature, experienced best 22 (including a number of former premiership players) and greater overall depth in contrast to Carlton’s, which is propped up heavily by Cripps. Our next best are an over the hill Murphy and a 19 year old Walsh.

Not all statistically significant games indicate dominance within that game. As noted above, JOM had a high possession count to half time, yet we were all over Hawthorn to that point in time. Many of JOM’s stats around the ground were cheapies that didn’t generate anything meaningful for Hawthorn going forward. I thought Shiels was far more important in getting Hawthorn going in the 2nd half, when Hawthorn got on top.

Very few players in the league have to ability to put the team on their back and win a game off their own steam the way Cripps can. Look at his league-wide best individual game against Brisbane to highlight his capabilities. No surprises why he was considered the best player in the league last year by his peers. Already an out and out champion.

JOM just isn’t that. He’s a nice complimentary midfielder at the Ollie Wines/Dom Sheed level. A good player who will have a couple of statistically big games a year but isn’t in the top echelon of midfielders in the league, and likely never will be due to a combination of factors.

He had a huge opportunity last year to stamp himself as a bonafide star after getting through a full season in 2018, but he only marginally increased his influence on games and was overtaken by Worpel as Hawthorn’s 2nd best mid.

 

[Iceman!]

The latter.

Hawthorn have a more mature, experienced best 22 (including a number of former premiership players) and greater overall depth in contrast to Carlton’s, which is propped up heavily by Cripps. Our next best are an over the hill Murphy and a 19 year old Walsh.

Not all statistically significant games indicate dominance within that game. As noted above, JOM had a high possession count to half time, yet we were all over Hawthorn to that point in time. Many of JOM’s stats around the ground were cheapies that didn’t generate anything meaningful for Hawthorn going forward. I thought Shiels was far more important in getting Hawthorn going in the 2nd half, when Hawthorn got on top.

Very few players in the league have to ability to put the team on their back and win a game off their own steam the way Cripps can. Look at his league-wide best individual game against Brisbane to highlight his capabilities. No surprises why he was considered the best player in the league last year by his peers. Already an out and out champion.

JOM just isn’t that. He’s a nice complimentary midfielder at the Ollie Wines/Dom Sheed level. A good player who will have a couple of statistically big games a year but isn’t in the top echelon of midfielders in the league, and likely never will be due to a combination of factors.

He had a huge opportunity last year to stamp himself as a bonafide star after getting through a full season in 2018, but he only marginally increased his influence on games and was overtaken by Worpel as Hawthorn’s 2nd best mid.

I mean he had 23 contested possessions and 9 clearances, he did a lot more than just accumulate cheapies.

when he has a big game statistically you claim stats don’t tell the full story but you also use stats to show that he only marginally improved this year. Anyone who watched him this year won’t think he only marginally improved.

In terms of being in the top echelon of mids i agree, he isn’t in the top tier of players but my entire argument is we don’t know what his ceiling is. People talk like this is the finished product. We don’t know that.

 

[La Dispute]

I mean he had 23 contested possessions and 9 clearances, he did a lot more than just accumulate cheapies.

when he has a big game statistically you claim stats don’t tell the full story but you also use stats to show that he only marginally improved this year. Anyone who watched him this year won’t think he only marginally improved.

In terms of being in the top echelon of mids i agree, he isn’t in the top tier of players but my entire argument is we don’t know what his ceiling is. People talk like this is the finished product. We don’t know that.

I haven’t used any stats at all. I indicated his influence on games isn’t what his stats would dictate and used his game against Carlton to frame that. Despite getting a metric shit tonne of the ball he wasn’t dominant and Hawthorn weren’t benefiting while he was getting the majority of those stats.

 

[StillAtLarge]

Not all statistically significant games indicate dominance within that game. As noted above, JOM had a high possession count to half time, yet we were all over Hawthorn to that point in time. Many of JOM’s stats around the ground were cheapies that didn’t generate anything meaningful for Hawthorn going forward. I thought Shiels was far more important in getting Hawthorn going in the 2nd half, when Hawthorn got on top.

Very few players in the league have to ability to put the team on their back and win a game off their own steam the way Cripps can. Look at his league-wide best individual game against Brisbane to highlight his capabilities. No surprises why he was considered the best player in the league last year by his peers. Already an out and out champion.

JOM just isn’t that. He’s a nice complimentary midfielder at the Ollie Wines/Dom Sheed level. A good player who will have a couple of statistically big games a year but isn’t in the top echelon of midfielders in the league, and likely never will be due to a combination of factors.

He had a huge opportunity last year to stamp himself as a bonafide star after getting through a full season in 2018, but he only marginally increased his influence on games and was overtaken by Worpel as Hawthorn’s 2nd best mid.

That's a fair assesment, it's entirely possible that O'Meara could improve yet still be our 4th best mid behind Mitchell, Wingard & Worpel. Add Shiels and Scully to that list and we're starting to build some real depth.

 

[TheFourPillars]

Jom is set for big season

 

[Dazb86]

This kids probably never going to live up to the early hype. He's a good player though that's been hampered by injuries. With a good run he could become a top line mid.

 

[Gralin]

From what we can see here it is actually:

A) JOM isn’t that damaging. In spite of having something ridiculous like 26 possessions to half time the team was still down by 30 odd points.
B) We shouldn’t have bothered changing tactics, partly due to A.

He had 19 in the second half when you decided to sit on him to shut him down.
I don't think you shut him out of the game like you say you did

 

[matey]

JOM doesn’t need to be a superstar, he only needs to play his role well for the team.

It’s all about team. Hawks have got rid of superstars such as Buddy and Ablett senior in the past and still did ok.

 

[La Dispute]

He had 19 in the second half when you decided to sit on him to shut him down.
I don't think you shut him out of the game like you say you did

I said had got most of his touches while Carlton were on top, and never said we shut him out of the game.

It further reinforces why we shouldn’t have changed tact as he continued getting touches anyway.

 

[Captain chaos]

That's a fair assesment, it's entirely possible that O'Meara could improve yet still be our 4th best mid behind Mitchell, Wingard & Worpel. Add Shiels and Scully to that list and we're starting to build some real depth.

That would he a big step up for chad. Jury still very much out on mitchell after his severe injury.

 

[Gralin]

I said had got most of his touches while Carlton were on top, and never said we shut him out of the game.

It further reinforces why we shouldn’t have changed tact as he continued getting touches anyway.

No he got most of his touches while Carlton were in front.
Blues won 2 quarters, Hawks won 2 quarters.

Most of our midfield played poorly in the first half. Jaeger was the only Hawks mid standing up in the first half and you're trying to use that as proof that he was poor.

He got a few less touches in the second half but that's when Worpel and Shiels and others started helping him with the heavy lifting.

 

[La Dispute]

No he got most of his touches while Carlton were in front.
Blues won 2 quarters, Hawks won 2 quarters.

Most of our midfield played poorly in the first half. Jaeger was the only Hawks mid standing up in the first half and you're trying to use that as proof that he was poor.

He got a few less touches in the second half but that's when Worpel and Shiels and others started helping him with the heavy lifting.

You’re asserting a lot of things I haven’t said.

To clarify:

He was not poor in the first half. He had a stack of the ball, to which many were cheap possessions that weren’t providing any real benefit to Hawthorn which was reflected in the score to that point in time.

It’s part in parcel to how he plays, and he’s certainly got a precedent of having games which were statistically good but not particularly impactful. I remember he had the most pointless 28 possession game a few years ago in his first season for Hawthorn, to which he had no confidence in his kicking and his touches were all virtually handballing it off to the next player regardless how good a position they were in. At least he’s back kicking the ball, despite his tendency to spray it.

There’s no use regurgitating stats if there’s no context couching their significance.

 

[Leeda]

JoM has my stamp of approval... god knows he and I can't control the rest of the plebs... carry on...

 

[threesixpio]

Sadly for opposition supporters, Jaegar will be worth the hype and will sadly play like a fricken superstar this year.

It’s really sad

 

[Leeda]

Sadly for opposition supporters, Jaegar will be worth the hype and will sadly play like a fricken superstar this year.

It’s really sad

Bl... oops the legend.. carpet burns are got their deal with understanding...

shuffle the decks will surfice...

 

[Gralin]

You’re asserting a lot of things I haven’t said.

To clarify:

He was not poor in the first half. He had a stack of the ball, to which many were cheap possessions that weren’t providing any real benefit to Hawthorn which was reflected in the score to that point in time.

It’s part in parcel to how he plays, and he’s certainly got a precedent of having games which were statistically good but not particularly impactful. I remember he had the most pointless 28 possession game a few years ago in his first season for Hawthorn, to which he had no confidence in his kicking and his touches were all virtually handballing it off to the next player regardless how good a position they were in. At least he’s back kicking the ball, despite his tendency to spray it.

There’s no use regurgitating stats if there’s no context couching their significance.

You are making assertions without any backup.

You suggest his stats were cheap because we weren't winning.
You brush off the lack of impact his teammates had at that time and put it all on him.

You've picked half of one game as evidence of your view and your evidence is that Carlton kicked more goals.

You don't have to rate Jaeger but if this is how you analyse footy and form your opinions on players you should probably spend less time arguing your point, why put more effort into that than you did into coming to the conclusion you think everyone else should agree with.

 

[TallyHawk]

JoM has my stamp of approval... god knows he and I can't control the rest of the plebs... carry on...

It's been an interesting journey, gun player, then people were ready to draw a line through him, then we sold the farm for him, then he won't ever get to the level, then comes 3rd in BnF after hard tags, then he he isn't damaging. It never ends.


On iPad using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[Leeda]

It's been an interesting journey, gun player, then people were ready to draw a line through him, then we sold the farm for him, then he won't ever get to the level, then comes 3rd in BnF after hard tags, then he he isn't damaging. It never ends.


On iPad using BigFooty.com mobile app

the lad is well equipped to know his value for his club....

 

[La Dispute]

You are making assertions without any backup.

You suggest his stats were cheap because we weren't winning.
You brush off the lack of impact his teammates had at that time and put it all on him.

You've picked half of one game as evidence of your view and your evidence is that Carlton kicked more goals.

You don't have to rate Jaeger but if this is how you analyse footy and form your opinions on players you should probably spend less time arguing your point, why put more effort into that than you did into coming to the conclusion you think everyone else should agree with.

You need to take some of your own advice, as on multiple occasions you’ve decided to invent some pre-suppositions to respond to rather than engage directly with the points being made, which is rendering your argument completely redundant.

It was a Hawthorn supporter who brought up his effort against Carlton as an example of a strong game, and I responded by unpacking the performance and highlighting his effort was having a negligible impact on the game overall in spite of a ridiculous possession count.

Your last paragraph is all man, no ball. Trying to convince Hawthorn supporters a Hawthorn player they rate isn’t that good is always going to be a difficult task. Bringing a bit of balance to the discussion is a worthy intention.

 

[TallyHawk]

the lad is well equipped to know his value for his club....

More importantly those that matter within Hawthorn know his value, will get freed up with Tom, Chad, and Worpel taking some attention from taggers.




On iPad using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[Gralin]

You need to take some of your own advice, as on multiple occasions you’ve decided to invent some pre-suppositions to respond to rather than engage directly with the points being made, which is rendering your argument completely redundant.

It was a Hawthorn supporter who brought up his effort against Carlton as an example of a strong game, and I responded by unpacking the performance and highlighting his effort was having a negligible impact on the game overall in spite of a ridiculous possession count.

Your last paragraph is all man, no ball. Trying to convince Hawthorn supporters a Hawthorn player they rate isn’t that good is always going to be a difficult task. Bringing a bit of balance to the discussion is a worthy intention.

No you didn't unpack his game and prove he had negligible impact on the game.
You made a couple of general statements on why you thought he had no impact and every post countering that since you've either dismissed outright or claimed was attacking you for a point you didn't make.

You're not trying to bring balance to the discussion you think he's crap and Hawks supporters are deluded if we don't agree with you.