Traded Jake Carlisle [traded w/ #23 and #44 for #5, #24 and Craig Bird]

[Duckworth]

This just got more interesting!!!!

Just go ahead and jump the gun early... deactivate your account now.

 

[Scotland]

Youre club isnt in a position to dictate anything

We dont have to part with pick 5 at all

And Essendon don't have to trade Carlilse to St Kilda at all. Round and round it goes.

Carlisle + 23 + 25 for pick 5 is an absurd offer.

 

[SherbertLemon]

It's not a fair trade, a fair trade would be your posting ability, for shit.

thought you were being unnecessarily mean to rational saints supporters, then pressed "show ignored content button".

****, he really is a shithouse poster.

 

[Duckworth]

Surely Carlisle + 23 OR 25 for pick 5 is relatively fair for both parties without needing to get other clubs involved.

pick 5 = 1878 points
pick 23 = 815 points
pick 25 = 756 points

Carlisle + 23 + 25 for pick 5 effectively values Carlisle at pick 47/48. Are St Kilda serious?

I have had a theory all along that St Kilda had no idea how to get the trade done. I have also suggested that they got the idea for that trade from BigFooty (such was it's stupidity). so...

Ameeteur = Defacto!

 

[WEEVZ]

Pick 23 and 25 and it ends. You get a high pick and we get a chance to enter the first round.

Get it done!

Why don't we make this clear once and for all, you won't be in the 1st round of the draft this year just accept. Stop trying to turn Pick 5 and Pick 24 into Carlisle, Freeman and Pick 8 its not gonna work like that.
Funny how all Saints supporters seem to think that bullshit offer you put to us on Friday is "fair" you aren't the team getting shafted, Essendon will not pay for Freeman and/or Pick 8 for you so just accept it and come back to us with. The best you can hope for is Carlisle + 23 for 5, and that is probably overs for 5.

 

[Ari]

Youre club isnt in a position to dictate anything

We dont have to part with pick 5 at all

Carlisle is contracted to Essendon until the end of the month. This means he either works with Essendon to get to a good result for all parties, or he is shipped to the PSD lottery and could end up any where.

Make no mistake, Essendon have bargaining power and chips in the middle. Just like St Kilda and Carlisle do. If they didn't, this thing would already be done.

 

[DaniFletch]

"Of our 'tradable' players and picks surely there's say 10 combo's in there somewhere that could work for Essendon."

No. There isn't.

If you want a good player you have to give a good pick or player.

You have done neither.

 

[Ari]

Surely Carlisle + 23 OR 25 for pick 5 is relatively fair for both parties without needing to get other clubs involved.

pick 5 = 1878 points
pick 23 = 815 points
pick 25 = 756 points

Carlisle + 23 + 25 for pick 5 effectively values Carlisle at pick 47/48. Are St Kilda serious?

Pretty absurd right? For a KPP who can play at either end and has shown he's capable. Just coming in to his age and ability.

 

[gillo94]

This is going to PSD. Can't see either team agreeing to anything

 

[Lance Uppercut]

Its a fair trade. Its that or nothing. What do you prefer

lol you'd think you'd have learned your lesson, but no. You don't know what's going to happen, obviously.

Funny watching you on your hard be belligerent, then despairing, now back to belligerent again

 

[HeHateMe]

This is going to PSD. Can't see either team agreeing to anything

You would like that

Sent from my GT-I9505 using Tapatalk

 

[Blended]

Surely Carlisle + 23 OR 25 for pick 5 is relatively fair for both parties without needing to get other clubs involved.

pick 5 = 1878 points
pick 23 = 815 points
pick 25 = 756 points

Carlisle + 23 + 25 for pick 5 effectively values Carlisle at pick 47/48. Are St Kilda serious?

When did Essendon get an academy??

 

[GinniAndTonic]

There is no way he will enter the PSD imo, He will either be a saint if the saints ever offer pick 5 otherwise he will be a hawk for 15,18 just my opinion.

 

[gillo94]

You would like that

Sent from my GT-I9505 using Tapatalk

Even if Jake Carlisle does go to PSD, He will end up at StK. He will just tell Blues sorry not interested and end of story

 

[Scotland]

Pretty absurd right? For a KPP who can play at either end and has shown he's capable. Just coming in to his age and ability.

I know the points system is arbitrary and not the be all and end all but it's literally worse than the proposals people come up with on BigFooty.

I'm not Carlisle's biggest fan but he is 24 and an accomplished key defender. It wasn't that long ago that people were calling for him to be in the AA side (based on partial season form). And St Kilda are offering him $650k or whatever it is.

I'd value him as worthy of a mid to late first round pick. 5 is probably too much, but I'd say fair if he was contracted. 5 for him and 23 rates him about pick 17 in points. Probably fair in the circumstances. 5 and 23 and 25 rates him around pick 48. St Kilda have no idea.

 

[aussierulesrules]

Apologies if this has all been covered since I was last on here, but I don't have the time or inclination to read all 400+ posts since 6pm last night!

Can i ask though, in all honesty - do you believe the current offer (being pick 5 for Carlisle 23 and 25) is equivalent of a pick 12 (what you believe Carlisle is worth)?

When I first heard our offer I thought it was just an ambit type offer, as a counter to what I considered to be Essendon's similarly ambit type demand of pick 5 or go away, but then this post by Ancient Tiger

I think they've offered pick 5 but want 23 and 25 back (in a shallow draft).

and my response to fishardansin's respoinse to Tiger's post:

I'm pretty sure you're completely missing the point he was making there. Us asking for 23 and 25 isn't as much of a big deal in this shallow draft as it would be in a stronger and deeper one.

got me thinking.

If we had offered up pick 5 and a junk pick for Carlisle and say picks 36 and 38, would there have been any outrage or "insult" like there has been at our offer of 5 and a junk pick, for Carlisle, 23 and 25?

Alternatively, would there have been the similar sort of outrage or insult had we offered up pick 5 and a junk pick for say Carlisle, 30 and 32?

Because while this draft is supposed to be pretty standard at the top end (where pick 5 is) it has been described as being so weak and shallow overall that it may be the "worst in 10 years" (which someone reported during the week) and it may just be that we think it really drops off significantly from say pick 20 or so onwards (as I've heard plenty suggest this year) and as such picks 23 and 25 may be the equivalent of say picks 30 and 32 in an average/stock-standard draft, or even the equivalent of picks like say 36 and 38 in a really strong and/or deep one. So with pick 5 you may believe that you could get someone with genuinely elite abilities, but with picks like 23 and 25 in this draft you may believe that you'd most likely get someone who only has a 50/50 chance of even playing 50 games, let alone being elite.

So to answer your question, it really depends on just how much this draft does actually drop off from say pick 20 onwards and how good whoever you'd be likely to be able to get at pick 5 is. If a pick in the mid 20's in this draft is like a pick in the 30's in a stronger draft, then you have to ask yourself what would you have to offer a club (who don't have an academy) along with say picks 30 and 32, to get them to part with pick 5 and a junk pick in an average/stock-standard draft?

If you asked a club that didn't have an academy to trade you pick 5 and a late pick for picks 30 and 32 in an average/stock-standard draft, they would laugh in your face, so you'd have to really offer something pretty significant along with 30 and 32 to get them to be willing to part with 5 and 60+.

IMO, and I've been following the drafts since the mid 90's, so I reckon I have a fair idea of what would be required here, it would definitely take a pick in the teens to be added to 30 and 32 for the club with 5 and 60+ to be willing to entertain trading that top 5 pick and giving up someone they thought was a strong chance of playing 200+ games and being "elite/A-grade".

Picks in the top 5 of this draft have a very strong chance of playing 200+ games and being "A-grade", if not genuinely "elite", whereas I dare say picks in the 20's have a high total-bust potential, and a very low likelihood of being "elite" if they do happen to not bust, which on further thought is why I now consider that our offer may be a lot closer to the mark than I originally thought it was, when I first heard about it.

Probably the only thing that might make 23 and 25 more appealing in this particular draft is the fact that you now, for the first time, have 3 clubs who only care about how many points their particular picks are worth, which gives you a stronger chance of being able to trade those two average picks for a much higher pick. If there isn't a club who is willing to trade you say pick 8 for those picks then they go back to not being worth all that much again though.

 

[WEEVZ]

Surely Carlisle + 23 OR 25 for pick 5 is relatively fair for both parties without needing to get other clubs involved.

pick 5 = 1878 points
pick 23 = 815 points
pick 25 = 756 points

Carlisle + 23 + 25 for pick 5 effectively values Carlisle at pick 47/48. Are St Kilda serious?

They're delusional the longer they stuff us around the less and less likely we are to give either Pick 23 or Pick 25 as part of the deal (as well as the more likely it is Carlisle ends up at the Hawks). Imo fairest deal would be assuming we got either Pick 36 or Pick 37 from you in return for Giles + Pick 41 (which I think is now Pick 44 after compo, etc.), and then package that pick with Carlisle in return for Pick 5 from the Saints (this is if of course that the rumour of us sending 23 + 25 to GWS for 8 has legs, which effectively removes Picks 23 & 25 from discussions with the Saints).
Those trades could look like:

Trade 1
ESS out/GWS in: Pick 23 + 25
ESS in/GWS out: Pick 8

Trade 2
ESS out/WCE in: Giles + Pick 44
ESS in/WCE out: Pick 36 (or 37)

Trade 3
ESS out/STK in: Carlisle + Pick 36 (or 37)
ESS in/STK out: Pick 5

 

[aussierulesrules]

I know the points system is arbitrary and not the be all and end all but it's literally worse than the proposals people come up with on BigFooty.

I'm not Carlisle's biggest fan but he is 24 and an accomplished key defender. It wasn't that long ago that people were calling for him to be in the AA side (based on partial season form). And St Kilda are offering him $650k or whatever it is.

I'd value him as worthy of a mid to late first round pick. 5 is probably too much, but I'd say fair if he was contracted. 5 for him and 23 rates him about pick 17 in points. Probably fair in the circumstances. 5 and 23 and 25 rates him around pick 48. St Kilda have no idea.

See my post directly below yours. Our offer is so much better than pick 48 (it's actually 41, anyway) it's not even funny.

No club in their right mind that doesn't have an academy would trade you picks 5 and 63 for picks 41, 23 and 25 in this draft- which is being described by some as the worst/most shallow in 10 years, but pretty standard at the top end (which just tells you how much it must drop off later).

If this draft drops off as much as some are suggesting after the top 20 or so, then you would have to offer up something much, much better than pick 41 (along with picks 23 and 25) to get them to be willing to trade you picks 5 and 63.

Even in a standard/average draft I think picks in the 20's only have about a 50% chance of even playing a single game, or something like that and this is meant to be much more shallow than your standard draft, which reduces those odds.

Our offer in reality rates him right around were you rate him, a mid-late teens pick.

 

[bltn]

I know it was. You will have to accept or its PSD time

Defacto please,
I know you're trolling ESS fans here, but c'mon, you know it will be either 23 or 25 (CERTAINLY not both).

A lot has been written about this Pick 8 of GWS, and whether Essendon or St.Kilda can get it with those early 2nd Round Picks.
I guess we will find out by Monday evening.

Once that is off the table, then Essendon will try and offer the Giles upgrade Pick 36 or 37 (assuming that happens tomorrow).
St.Kilda will try for 23, then we will settle for 25.

Personally, I'd like to get next year's 3rd back off the Saints, but at Pick 50ish, it's not a deal breaker.

 

[Daniel Bradford]

Sorry Essendon trades 4, 23, 25 to Adelaide
for 9, 13, 28

Essendon trade 13, 28 and Carlisle to
Saints for Pick 5, 23

Essendon end up with 5, 9, 23
St Kilda end up with Carlisle, 13, 28

Agree this is probably the fairest trade. But from all reports Essendon and GWS swapping 23+25 for 8 is just hinging on Treloar trade to be finalised (Monday/Tuesday) to ensure pick 8 does land at GWS from Collingwood first. So, Essendon should get that deal out of the way and then re-enter the negotiations with Saints. Oh whats that Armeet you slime ball? You want 23+25? Shove it up your a$$. We'll give you 36 (Giles) and 41 (our 3rd round) if you're lucky. Carlisele accepts trade to Hawks any day of the week before going to PSD so, ESSENDON it's time to turn the screws on the Saints after their limp d*ck attempt at screwin us over.

Did anyone else actually LOL hard at this thinking about STKFC when news that Hawks entered the play? So good
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vrQFBYgwQW8

 

[Rack Watts]

thought you were being unnecessarily mean to rational saints supporters, then pressed "show ignored content button".

****, he really is a shithouse poster.

The former being a standard affair, for once I am innocent.

 

[mattrobbo26]

What's with all these essendon supporters still going on about hawthorn? Obviously missed the bit from Carlisle's manager saying he wants to go to the saints and only the saints.

 

[Pinpoint Pass]

Some people haven't put defacto on ignore yet?

 

[Pinpoint Pass]

Even if Jake Carlisle does go to PSD, He will end up at StK. He will just tell Blues sorry not interested and end of story

And the Blues will say, "Well you should have thought about that before you entered the PSD. See you for first day of pre season training"

"Oh and btw we will be playing you at CHF"

 

[Daniel Bradford]

What's with all these essendon supporters still going on about hawthorn? Obviously missed the bit from Carlisle's manager saying he wants to go to the saints and only the saints.

Obvously you forget about the whole PSD thing. You know that thing where players crap themselves at the 12th hour and decide to taker any reasonable dealrather than going into the chook lottery and possibly end up at Carlton, Brisbane or GC. Especially when they go straight in to a team that has won 3 flags in a row and most likely be contending for a 4th.

Anthony McCnville; "Jake, there is 1 hour until the trade period is over, you can pull tghe trigger and go to Hawks and potentially win a flag, or risk going to cellar dwellers Carlton/Brisbane or interstate to GC."

Jake Carlise; "Anthony, I wouldnt mind winning a flag, lets just sign with the Hawks"

Essendon community; "Damn straight bitch"