News James Peatling chooses Adelaide

[119others]

I can’t believe you think GC and GWS have been good for the game. GC are an absolute joke that show the AFL cares more about TV rights and on one upping the NRL than actually running a fair and representative top tier competition.

Tasmania and NT are true AFL heartland states and any true national competition would have had them represented well before bringing in cynical and manufactured teams in rugby dominant areas.

man thats showing a distinct lack of 'big picture' perspective. its all about growing the 'addressable market' - growing the pie - which is effectively limited to Oz so attacking the fastest growing region (SEQ) and 3-4th 'biggest city' in Oz (western SYD) is clearly the right strategy from a growth perspective.

Huge uptake in participation of AFL in SEQ which will ultimately benefit the whole competition with more juniors playing the game, more 'eyeballs' watching the sport and bigger revenue streams into the future - mainly thru broadcasting deals

Its a very long term investment and the right one to make. Tassie and NT - I understand the romance of teams there - but no where near as important as GC and GWS being successful long term

 

[PeterSalt]

It’s like people don’t realise that the afl has studied this in depth

I think they’d also be surprised re the positive metrics re their investment

As for people moving north and still supporting their old club , that will eventually change to but will take a generation

The last figures I read on growth were really positive - even in SA

The other thing that has made a massive change is the rapid expansion of women's football

Seems a lot of smaller clubs that were struggling and barely viable financially have seen a massive improvement with new membership and participation

 

[Redline]

And you see a lot of players come into their draft year as highly-touted 17-year-olds, but for whatever reason slide significantly or not even get drafted. Also physically, a lot of our players look underdeveloped / skinny compared to the other states. I think there's big flaws in our current development pathways.

I think that's a valid points but I think it's more the SANFL development as opposed clubs.

To be honest if a player is in the SANFL talent pathway and playing college football the clubs barely see the player. If they do its often on a reduced load.

 

[Hodgy]

Whoa ... we are using the Olympics as a high water mark for fairness in sport? You think the Olympics #1 KPI is to be fair?

Absolutely. The 100 meters would be 100 meters down to the millimeter and 100% flat and even surfaced, precisely the same as 100 years ago. Don’t confuse individuals being corrupt with the KPI’s of the organisation.

 

[119others]

The Suns are a worry for me, they'd wouldn't be the first sporting franchise to fall over in that part of the world.

GWS are in a sporting heartland at least.

Not sure I agree. SEQ attracts a huge migrant populations of from both VIC and SA and many people will follow (members or attend) GC games esp as they improve which is now inevitable (like I have done being a Brissie member for many years living in nth NSW).

Thats not the case with western SYD which is much more ethnic and high % of immigrants following soccer and other sports

Agree GC has been a sporting graveyard but with huge popn growth and now Ozs best and most popular game entrenched for the long term I predict the Suns will be the first ever long term successful GC team

 

[FR0GGY]

I have zero interest in seeing the AFL grow, I care about the top level competition of the sport I love being as fair and representative as it can be.

Huh?
Imagine ignoring all those potentially top level players.

 

[119others]

man thats showing a distinct lack of 'big picture' perspective. its all about growing the 'addressable market' - growing the pie - which is effectively limited to Oz so attacking the fastest growing region (SEQ) and 3-4th 'biggest city' in Oz (western SYD) is clearly the right strategy from a growth perspective.

Huge uptake in participation of AFL in SEQ which will ultimately benefit the whole competition with more juniors playing the game, more 'eyeballs' watching the sport and bigger revenue streams into the future - mainly thru broadcasting deals

Its a very long term investment and the right one to make. Tassie and NT - I understand the romance of teams there - but no where near as important as GC and GWS being successful long term

PaythePerryman mate any idea on AFL growth in participation in Western SYD? SEQ has gone off and wondering if anything remotely similar in western SYD. To be honest, I was a little disappointed the semi final only seemed 50-66% sold out, esp after Giants fantastic week one finals effort. Actually think Giants were unlucky not to win the flag based on talent levels...and time is starting to run out with many star players 30+ (Green, Whitfield, Coniglio, Kelly etc). That said your recruitment remains elite and you keep restocking with excellent players despite losing a bunch most years (4 this year along assuming Stone goes)

 

[PaythePerryman]

Huh?
Imagine ignoring all those potentially top level players.

Like Peatling
Enjoy

 

[Scorpus]

I have zero interest in seeing the AFL grow, I care about the top level competition of the sport I love being as fair and representative as it can be. If it is indeed the best sport in the country it will grow by itself and when those areas are truly AFL heartland, give them a team then.

The AFL should be like the IOC and have as their clear no. 1 KPI to run the elite level of the sport as fairly as possible. It’s not the IOC’s job to grow athletics around the world, that is up to the local federations and also should happen because we get to see a Ussain Bolt winning on a completely fair playing field and get inspired because of it. If the IOc gave “priority picks” to country that hadn’t won a medal for a while, or changed the rules of the 100m to get more world records then Bolts achievement would be lessened as a result.

The AFL needs to be either the commercial rights holder of footy or the governing body, it is a clear conflict of interest to be both.

The IOC actually has as ton of stuff in their Olympic Charter about promoting, encouraging and supporting the Olympics and sport in general

 

[119others]

I have zero interest in seeing the AFL grow, I care about the top level competition of the sport I love being as fair and representative as it can be. If it is indeed the best sport in the country it will grow by itself and when those areas are truly AFL heartland, give them a team then.

The AFL should be like the IOC and have as their clear no. 1 KPI to run the elite level of the sport as fairly as possible. It’s not the IOC’s job to grow athletics around the world, that is up to the local federations and also should happen because we get to see a Ussain Bolt winning on a completely fair playing field and get inspired because of it. If the IOc gave “priority picks” to country that hadn’t won a medal for a while, or changed the rules of the 100m to get more world records then Bolts achievement would be lessened as a result.

The AFL needs to be either the commercial rights holder of footy or the governing body, it is a clear conflict of interest to be both.

do you prefer local amateur footy over SANFL? Prefer SANFL over AFL?

Do you see where this is going?

 

[Hodgy]

Kids participating now will be the people spending money to watch the game in 10-15 years time

More kids playing the game now will expand the talent pool of players to pick from in 10-15 years time


To some degree the slow death of Rugby has been associated with a policy of spending huge amounts of money on the Wallabies and largely ignoring grassroots

Huge player contracts to fend off big money contracts from Europe didn't help

Conflict between the Qld & NSW unions was another problem that doesn't ever seem to have been resolved

24 years ago Australia were world cup champions and regularly towelling up the All Blacks

Yes but those kids are still playing a sport, just not Union so why would you care? I played AFL all my life because I loved it not because it was popular. If that’s what motivated me I would have played soccer.

I think you’re correct that the average person doesn’t care about what’s fair, they just want to be entertained. I just happen to disagree with that and believe that certain of our institutions, like charities and sporting clubs, should not be run on commercial lines but on what is fair for the constituents of those entities.

 

[Hodgy]

The IOC actually has as ton of stuff in their Olympic Charter about promoting, encouraging and supporting the Olympics and sport in general

Yes but I bet it’s not their primary KPI. If the AFL’s number 1 priority was running a fair competition then they can do whatever they like after that. Grand finals at the ground that 3 or 4 teams play at all year, marquee games like Anzac Day being played based on membership numbers, the draw being totally inequitable based on TV rights and heartland AFL states being ignored for commercial reasons are simply not putting the running of a fair competition as your priority.

I think we could all find many, many other examples, but I can’t think of any IOC policy that are outright unfair in promoting a level playing field.

 

[PaythePerryman]

PaythePerryman mate any idea on AFL growth in participation in Western SYD? SEQ has gone off and wondering if anything remotely similar in western SYD. To be honest, I was a little disappointed the semi final only seemed 50-66% sold out, esp after Giants fantastic week one finals effort. Actually think Giants were unlucky not to win the flag based on talent levels...and time is starting to run out with many star players 30+ (Green, Whitfield, Coniglio, Kelly etc). That said your recruitment remains elite and you keep restocking with excellent players despite losing a bunch most years (4 this year along assuming Stone goes)

It was going pretty well for a while there but there has been two major issues.

Covid set us back a lot compared to other clubs in engagement and crowd numbers and general interest in the code...you can say that it hit every team equally but most clubs aren't in their initial growth incline so it hit us hard and didn't allow us to consolidate after our first sustained finals run.

More importantly though is that the NRL has seriously pulled their finger out over the last 5 years. The league and it's outreach has exploded under V'landys. It's a dense market here and there's different leagues turning head left and right.

Semi final crowd was awesome to be honest. It wasn't the sell out with had in round 0 but the passion and feel at the ground was incredible. It won't take as long as people think.

As far as youth and academy...it's been tough I think. Briggs and Peatling were our true Western Sydney products. I constantly hear parents having issues with the way the actual leagues here are run and distance to travel and whatnot. It's pretty hard to compete with multiple NRL clubs, basketball, soccer and so on.

I believe its trending in the right direction.
We aren't the Swans. Their academy is huge and gets way more families that are from the East/North and AFL is pretty prominent there.
Western Sydney is ****ing huge and it's going to be tough to crack. But if they do the rewards will be through the roof.

 

[119others]

It was going pretty well for a while there but there has been two major issues.

Covid set us back a lot compared to other clubs in engagement and crowd numbers and general interest in the code...you can say that it hit every team equally but most clubs aren't in their initial growth incline so it hit us hard and didn't allow us to consolidate after our first sustained finals run.

More importantly though is that the NRL has seriously pulled their finger out over the last 5 years. The league and it's outreach has exploded under V'landys. It's a dense market here and there's different leagues turning head left and right.

Semi final crowd was awesome to be honest. It wasn't the sell out with had in round 0 but the passion and feel at the ground was incredible. It won't take as long as people think.

As far as youth and academy...it's been tough I think. Briggs and Peatling were our true Western Sydney products. I constantly hear parents having issues with the way the actual leagues here are run and distance to travel and whatnot. It's pretty hard to compete with multiple NRL clubs, basketball, soccer and so on.

I believe its trending in the right direction.
We aren't the Swans. Their academy is huge and gets way more families that are from the East/North and AFL is pretty prominent there.
Western Sydney is ****ing huge and it's going to be tough to crack. But if they do the rewards will be through the roof.

yep all makes sense and appreciate the input. Almost the biggest prize of all to be able to crack the western SYD market longer term with the massive popn (and still fastest growing part of SYD with geographic constraints in many other parts of SYD inc coast and Natl Parks both north and south. I suppose the blue mountains also in that category but its a good 100km+ or so from memory)

Giants have been very well run with the right strategy from day one, successful overall playing wise and a pity you havent snagged a flag. Probably the risk is if you dont grab one in the next 2-3 years your undoubted champs (the 4 mentioned previously) will retire and will need a new breed

Out of interest are you a new fan to the game? Since GWS inception?

 

[Hodgy]

do you prefer local amateur footy over SANFL? Prefer SANFL over AFL?

Do you see where this is going?

I think you are misunderstanding. I want to see any sport run at the top level free from the commercial interests that bias that sport.

F1 is the commercial rights holder of the pinnacle of Motorsport, but the FIA controls the rules. If Bernie Ecclestone had been able to implement the rules he wanted when he had it, he has many times admitted that he would have introduced a random sprinkler system to spice up competition. Now that can not be in any way good for fairness or safety. It would be a clear conflict of interest.

I will say again the AFL can behave however they like if they are just the commercial rights holder of Aussie rules footy at the highest level, but not when they have somehow been given the rights to run the sport as well. We should have an independent commission with representatives from every state league running the game, then we wouldn’t have ridiculous and cynical rules like this stand rule, which is purely there to get more scoring and hence more TV ad spots.

Sport and charities should never be run primarily on economic goals.

 

[The Smith Revolution]

Correct. This league (AFL) does not own the game (Australian Rules).

 

[PeterSalt]

Yes but those kids are still playing a sport, just not Union so why would you care? I played AFL all my life because I loved it not because it was popular. If that’s what motivated me I would have played soccer.

I think you’re correct that the average person doesn’t care about what’s fair, they just want to be entertained. I just happen to disagree with that and believe that certain of our institutions, like charities and sporting clubs, should not be run on commercial lines but on what is fair for the constituents of those entities.

Rugby in Australia is on life support. Participation numbers are down

Australia is now the 10th ranked country in the world. We just came last again in the Rugby Championship, the southern hemisphere competition between Argentina, Australia, NZ and Sth Africa

Australia hasn't won the Bledisloe Cup, a competition between Australia and NZ, for over 20 years

An Australian team hasn't won a Super Rugby title since the Warratahs in 2014. Every title since then has been won by a NZ team

Some talented players in Australia are now choosing to forge careers playing club rugby in Europe. In essence forever lost to rugby in Australia



I think for the health of a particular sport there needs to be participation at a grassroots level

Growing up with a sport and playing it gives you an insight and appreciation for it's nuances and it's rules

Having a team to support is tribal and also provides a sense of belonging

Kids playing the sport today will help maintain the health of the sport in the future


My experience is that I never played soccer or hockey as child for example and have absolutely zero interest in either sport. I didn't play either rugby codes and only have a passing interest in both

 

[PaythePerryman]

Since the Giants started.

 

[baldandbroke]

Absolutely. The 100 meters would be 100 meters down to the millimeter and 100% flat and even surfaced, precisely the same as 100 years ago. Don’t confuse individuals being corrupt with the KPI’s of the organisation.

Yeah - worldwide even fair playing field is definitely what I think about when I see the Olympics.

 

[Slippery Pete]

The last figures I read on growth were really positive - even in SA

The other thing that has made a massive change is the rapid expansion of women's football

Seems a lot of smaller clubs that were struggling and barely viable financially have seen a massive improvement with new membership and participation

Why is there an obsession with growing the game at all costs?

Growth for growth’s sake isn’t always good.

That GWS-Brisbane final in NSW had less atmosphere than a tin-pot country footy game.

It was like when Seinfeld moved into a more coveted timeslot, and Larry David said “If they weren’t watching before, I don’t want them watching now!”

 

[119others]

I think you are misunderstanding. I want to see any sport run at the top level free from the commercial interests that bias that sport.

F1 is the commercial rights holder of the pinnacle of Motorsport, but the FIA controls the rules. If Bernie Ecclestone had been able to implement the rules he wanted when he had it, he has many times admitted that he would have introduced a random sprinkler system to spice up competition. Now that can not be in any way good for fairness or safety. It would be a clear conflict of interest.

I will say again the AFL can behave however they like if they are just the commercial rights holder of Aussie rules footy at the highest level, but not when they have somehow been given the rights to run the sport as well. We should have an independent commission with representatives from every state league running the game, then we wouldn’t have ridiculous and cynical rules like this stand rule, which is purely there to get more scoring and hence more TV ad spots.

Sport and charities should never be run primarily on economic goals.

ok thanks for the response. I wont admit to understanding what you are saying here inc the examples and analogies provided but happy to move on, cheers

 

[119others]

Why is there an obsession with growing the game at all costs?

Growth for growth’s sake isn’t always good.

That GWS-Brisbane final in NSW had less atmosphere than a tin-pot country footy game.

It was like when Seinfeld moved into a more coveted timeslot, and Larry David said “If they weren’t watching before, I don’t want them watching now!”

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funnily enough i just asked our GWS mate (see above) the same question. his response from being at the ground

Semi final crowd was awesome to be honest. It wasn't the sell out with had in round 0 but the passion and feel at the ground was incredible. It won't take as long as people think.

 

[Slippery Pete]

funnily enough i just asked our GWS mate (see above) the same question. his response from being at the ground

Semi final crowd was awesome to be honest. It wasn't the sell out with had in round 0 but the passion and feel at the ground was incredible. It won't take as long as people think.

Didn’t come across on TV sadly.

 

[119others]

I think you are misunderstanding. I want to see any sport run at the top level free from the commercial interests that bias that sport.

Sport and charities should never be run primarily on economic goals.

upon reflection, just not sure thats viable

EPL was struggling before Murdoch got involved

Test cricket ditto before Packer

VFL - half the teams were almost dead - before AFL expansion and now look at the state of the game. Record crowds, record memberships, records TV viewing

Do you disagree with any of this? Its not possible in todays world to 'be free' of commercial interests. In fact, commercial interests are an absolute key driver in terms of driving our game (and other sports) forward. Its all, or a big part, about money - rightly or wrongly. Why else did we get CumminG and Peatling this year?? Its $$$$$$

 

[119others]

Didn’t come across on TV sadly.

perhaps some fake clapping/roaring sound- like they apparently use at The Cattery - might be in order.