JJ Yes or No?

[Apsaalooke]

I started this thread not because I dislike JJ but because I just wondered if there was someone else on the list that was worth trying who could also kick 2 goals a game and add something more to the role
So I’m the first to admit that JJ has really improved his game in the second half of the year and is a very dangerous FF. As Wildy said during the game, it’s as if he’s just realized what a big strong man he is

Kudos to you JJ, good work

The trouble is he'll forget it by next year. I reckon they should write "I'm big and strong" on his hand each game to jog his memory

 

[hey shorty]

The trouble is he'll forget it by next year. I reckon they should write "I'm big and strong" on his hand each game to jog his memory

I doubt it, hes always had the ability to do it, it's just taken til this year to do it on a consistent basis.

46 goals for the year is a good return

 

[Apsaalooke]

I doubt it, hes always had the ability to do it, it's just taken til this year to do it on a consistent basis.

46 goals for the year is a good return

Old habits die hard

 

[Kane McGoodwin]

Last 5 Years (2014-2018)
200+ Goals

Buddy 337
Kennedy 326
Jack Riewoldt 277
Hawkins 276
Betts 270
Breust 241
J.Cameron 232
Jenkins 232
Gunston 231
Tex 220
Lynch (GC) 219
Benny Brown 212

Only side with 3 out of the 10 top goal kickers is impressive... & we also have other options too.

Where's Dixon?

 

[Doedee Bros]

He’s not kicking as many goals but he’s played much better team football this year

 

[John Who]

I think JJ has been playing somewhat differently, due to our gameplan needing tweaking, with all the injuries up forward this year. His consistency in the mid-40s goal tally in the last 5 years (and 62 goals in 2016) shows a person who has been winning a lot of contests, not only just this year.

JJ's the go to forward this year, with Tex/McGov being out for a big chunk of the year, so we're seeing JJ compete in marking contests more often than all the other years.

 

[Geoffa32]

Has he been Rucking more this year with Sauce' s malaise....

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk

 

[azza77]

I started this thread not because I dislike JJ but because I just wondered if there was someone else on the list that was worth trying who could also kick 2 goals a game and add something more to the role

So I’m the first to admit that JJ has really improved his game in the second half of the year and is a very dangerous FF. As Wildy said during the game, it’s as if he’s just realized what a big strong man he is

Kudos to you JJ, good work

I too was tearing shreds off him in the PS. But I'll happily admit he's been much better this year. Has done the body work and looked like an actual 200cm FF. Has stood up too in the absence of a lot of other forwards, which we normally wouldn't see from JJ. Big credit to him.

 

[Sanders]

Hardwick famously said this year that he rated tackles inside the 50 higher than goals for a forward

JJ has been played deeper and more in structure this year. He’s competed and provided more of a presence, more of a contest. He’s also won a few contests

His year has made all the nongs who insisted only goals matter look silly

His best year, and it’s not because of his goals. Still needs to do more going the otherway and his rucking is abysmal, but he’s taken really positive strides towards being a proper, valuable key forward.

Particularly in the last few weeks. Started good, fell into old habits midways through the year and powered home

I’m almost prepared to say he’s earned his money this year. Almost

 

[John Who]

Hardwick famously said this year that he rated tackles inside the 50 higher than goals for a forward

JJ has been played deeper and more in structure this year. He’s competed and provided more of a presence, more of a contest. He’s also won a few contests

His year has made all the nongs who insisted only goals matter look silly

His best year, and it’s not because of his goals. Still needs to do more going the otherway and his rucking is abysmal, but he’s taken really positive strides towards being a proper, valuable key forward.

Particularly in the last few weeks. Started good, fell into old habits midways through the year and powered home

I’m almost prepared to say he’s earned his money this year. Almost

The thing is, most of what we see him do this year (tackles, contested marking etc), he's been doing the same in the last few years! I personally don't think his endeavor has changed all that much, just his roles have been altered due to the team needs.

Previous 2 years we saw a lot of "Joe the goose" goals because we were able to play on quicker and do more slingshot attack from defense. This year the team has been slowered due to missing personnel, as well as forward structures have been all over the place. So generally, JJ has become the main target in the forward this year, so we get to see him do more competing for the ball and contested marking.

 

[Doedee Bros]

The thing is, most of what we see him do this year (tackles, contested marking etc), he's been doing the same in the last few years! I personally don't think his endeavor has changed all that much, just his roles have been altered due to the team needs.

Previous 2 years we saw a lot of "Joe the goose" goals because we were able to play on quicker and do more slingshot attack from defense. This year the team has been slowered due to missing personnel, as well as forward structures have been all over the place. So generally, JJ has become the main target in the forward this year, so we get to see him do more competing for the ball and contested marking.

Completely different player this year. No contest

 

[Miss Vanessa]

Hardwick famously said this year that he rated tackles inside the 50 higher than goals for a forward

JJ has been played deeper and more in structure this year. He’s competed and provided more of a presence, more of a contest. He’s also won a few contests

His year has made all the nongs who insisted only goals matter look silly

His best year, and it’s not because of his goals. Still needs to do more going the otherway and his rucking is abysmal, but he’s taken really positive strides towards being a proper, valuable key forward.

Particularly in the last few weeks. Started good, fell into old habits midways through the year and powered home

I’m almost prepared to say he’s earned his money this year. Almost

Hardwick is full of crap. Obviously you want to encourage players to work hard in all aspects of their games - including tackling - but kicking goals is still the main aim of any forward. Tackling stats of several players for this year.

Big Forwards:
Josh Jenkins - 2.8 a game.
Jack Watts - 2.7 a game.
Jack Riewoldt - 2.5 a game.
Lance Franklin- 2.1 a game.

Small Forwards:
Ben Ronke - 4.1 a game.
Lindsay Thomas - 4.0 a game.
Eddie Betts - 2.8 a game.
Jason Castagna - 2.7 a game.

No one would consider a Watts-Thomas duo up forward to be the best option, though together they lay the most tackles. Again, while no single stat can define how good or bad a player is, goals scored really is a decent indicator of how good a forward that played is.

 

[Sanders]

Hardwick is full of crap. Obviously you want to encourage players to work hard in all aspects of their games - including tackling - but kicking goals is still the main aim of any forward. Tackling stats of several players for this year.

Big Forwards:
Josh Jenkins - 2.8 a game.
Jack Watts - 2.7 a game.
Jack Riewoldt - 2.5 a game.
Lance Franklin- 2.1 a game.

Small Forwards:
Ben Ronke - 4.1 a game.
Lindsay Thomas - 4.0 a game.
Eddie Betts - 2.8 a game.
Jason Castagna - 2.7 a game.

No one would consider a Watts-Thomas duo up forward to be the best option, though together they lay the most tackles. Again, while no single stat can define how good or bad a player is, goals scored really is a decent indicator of how good a forward that played is.

ok for arguments sake let's accept all of that.

how do you explain JJ's unprecedented lack of recognition from his coaches for his goals though? he's been 13/14th the last 2 years whilst kicking over a 100 goals combined in those 2 seasons.

he'll finish higher this year, I'm thinking he'll be about 6th/7th this year (all the injuries will hurt his competitors) on total votes and around 8/9/10 for average votes.

 

[Apsaalooke]

To answer the question - a qualified yes, if he keeps it up

 

[Miss Vanessa]

ok for arguments sake let's accept all of that.

how do you explain JJ's unprecedented lack of recognition from his coaches for his goals though? he's been 13/14th the last 2 years whilst kicking over a 100 goals combined in those 2 seasons.

he'll finish higher this year, I'm thinking he'll be about 6th/7th this year (all the injuries will hurt his competitors) on total votes and around 8/9/10 for average votes.

I certainly agree that he has deficiencies in his game that he’s had to work on, and that goals aren’t absolutely everything for a forward these days. You do want a forward to have multiple aspects to his game, but scoring goals is still the prime focus for a forward... and if you have the mixture right in your forward line, then you can carry a player who might not excel in all areas.

Anyhow, just for fun, here’s a comparison between the forward line you’d choose if tackles inside 50 was your main focus, compared to flat out goal scoring... I’ve gone the two best “big forwards” in each category, plus the four best “small/midfielder forwards” for the other spots (Breust crosses over for both, but tackles was picked first).

Tackles inside 50 forward line (2018)
HF: J. Cripps T. Hawkins L. Thomas
FF: J. Neade J. Riewoldt L. Breust

Goals per game forward line (2018)
HF: D. Menzel L. Franklin J. Caddy
FF: J. De Goey J. Kennedy T. Greene

Again, obviously a player who both scores goals and provides plenty of pressure is preferable, but if push comes to shove, I’d be choosing the pure goal scoring forward line.

 

[SaltPeter]

3rd on 162 votes .. Sanders

 

[Sanders]

3rd on 162 votes .. Sanders

Doesn’t change any of the results of previous years.

Lowest goals per game tally in 5 years, tell me again about the value of goals?

I might also mention he was one of only four player’s to play every game

 

[SaltPeter]

Doesn’t change any of the results of previous years.

Lowest goals per game tally in 5 years, tell me again about the value of goals?

I might also mention he was one of only four player’s to play every game

Nothing more than a bit of cheap amusement

 

[Jcpdragonx]

Was a no for me last year but starting to sway, benefited from no Walker. Doing some media work would have helped his confidence.

 

[Allefgib]

Jenkins, yes.

You can't take a player who pressures well and get goals pout of them if they don't have the talent.

You can take a huge, fast, skillful, goal kicking leeroy and turn them into a top 3 bnf player.

 

[40porpoise]

I’ve always rated him, and you could tell even from the start of this year that he’d been working on using his body and contested marks. Really paid off for him.

You can’t argue with his goal kicking stats. One way or another he just gets it done year in year out. Really happy for him to get recognition with a top 3 b&f finish

 

[ContrarianCrow]

Well deserved recognition for the year he’s had, easily his most complete season especially when the remainder of our forward line has fallen to bits around him. Staying on the park all year has obviously helped his b&f finish, but given our fitness program that’s an achievement in itself

 

[headache1]

Doesn’t change any of the results of previous years.

Lowest goals per game tally in 5 years, tell me again about the value of goals?

I might also mention he was one of only four player’s to play every game

He was 6th on the votes per game stat this year. I've been a critic, but it was his best season by far in terms of his level of competitiveness. He actually did things that big key forwards are supposed to do on a reasonably regular basis. There were some shitful efforts in there as well, but a marked improvement for mine.

 

[jenny61_99]

I nominated JJ as my player of the season this year. Love Lairdy and Crouch... but there was something about JJ’s season that told me he’d really matured as a player. He started to believe in himself. Reckon he had a cracker and I’m glad to see he was recognised by the coaches. So glad someone tagged Sanders in...

 

[Sanders]

he'll finish higher this year, I'm thinking he'll be about 6th/7th this year (all the injuries will hurt his competitors) on total votes and around 8/9/10 for average votes.

Not so far away