News Jnr Rioli - He’s back.

[ziad]

Waiting for the B sample results before drawing to any conclusions. I'm sure the players know it's ongoing and not to think the worst. Least it's finals and only 3 games max left for the next 6 months so hopefully we'll know before 2020 season.

Best case his B sample comes back next week clean and untampered and he still might be free to play in the Grand Final (if we make it). Maybe it was his first test and just freaked out and couldn't pee in front of someone looking at him and decided to try and put some liquid in there first (sweat, spit etc) as he couldn't pee then finally he was able to get past that anxious stage and was able to carry on his business as usual.

I am no experet but not sure a clean B sample is proof the A sample was not tampered with.

 

[TOA.]

Even if his B sample comes back positive for illicit drugs we wont find out unless its his 3rd strike .

My gut feel is that he has drunk one of those Bclear or another liquid drug test masking liquids .

My mates who work at the mines would drink them when going back to site before their tests.

You have to drink a whole 750ml bottle of the liquid then fill the bottle with water and drink that too .

Then when you piss its not really urine in the normal sense its just that liquid coming out and it has all the protein markers to pass the paper dip test they do .

Problem is asada isnt some mine site who do mass testing they would very much be on to tactics like that .

I think this could be it, makes the most sense, as opposed to tampering with the sample.

 

[Devington]

I’m getting the feeling that the testers don’t physically intervene and only observe. So if Willie holds on to the cup for longer than expected, the tester won’t take it off him, it’s Willie’s obligation to hand it over. If he rotten tries to do something with it, he won’t be stopped from doing it, what he tried to do will just be recorded.

That certainly seems to be the consensus, although there seems to be some confusion in this case regarding a B sample. Urine is normally a single sample split in two, meaning that if the player tampers with the it when peeing then BOTH samples are affected. In the case of the tester believing they see tampering, like supposedly in this case, I don't think it's been made clear if they then get the player to actually make a separate second sample at any stage. I know that they are supposed to let the test carry on as normal, not alert the player, and note down what they saw (or THINK they saw as might be the case), but I haven't seen anything solid as to what happens after that.

I can understand if the parties involved don't want to comment on specifics of this case, but it would help the public if ASADA made it excruciatingly clear what the operating procedure for cases like this were (Tester suspecting tampering with a urine sample).

Regardless of any B samples or second tests, I've got a bad feeling to be honest. Unless some of the media commentary has been an absolute piss take (other than the braindead incredulousness of robbo and co) then it certainly does sound like his sample was tampered with and that the tester suspected as much. I fear the only good ending for WC is that the tester screwed up and got it wrong and that ASADA hit hard and fast without confirming via testing, but I find that really doubtful. ATM it looks like the question is 'why' and not 'if'. At a guess he partied hard on the weekend and panicked in the moment while the testers were there not understanding the difference in penalty between tampering with a test (at any time) and testing positive for cocaine or weed or something else on a non-matchday test.

Best of luck with the game tonight btw! Eagles have been my preferred choice to win it since the 8 hardened. Really hoping the coaches can get the players where they need to be to come out breathing fire.

 

[neilk]

Something not right here. ASADA don’t care about illicit drugs unless it’s match day is my understanding. They’re only looking for PED’s, aren’t they?

 

[TOA.]

Something not right here. ASADA don’t care about illicit drugs unless it’s match day is my understanding. They’re only looking for PED’s, aren’t they?

Unfortunately i think its possible that Willie panicked and clearly wasnt thinking it through.

We all make poor rushed decisions in life, for some they are life changing, for others the outcome passes and you dont give it a second thought

 

[pantskyle]

Something not right here. ASADA don’t care about illicit drugs unless it’s match day is my understanding. They’re only looking for PED’s, aren’t they?

It's still a three strike policy on illicit drugs. The big issue is still the tampering.

 

[random260]

There's no way in the world he gets kept on a list for 4 years.
Depriving someone else a spot and paying him for 4 years won't happen.

To the people thinking Rioli would be delisted is out of the mind. We don’t do that anymore.

Imagine after one strike we kicked out Ben cousins?

He would be of the rails faster and the blood would be on our hands.

We need to give him that glimmer of hope so they won’t fall in state of depression, sucidal etc cos footy is all they have.

One way or the other he will have a job to keep his mind off things similar to Ben cousin getting a job at footy club.

 

[Goroyals22]

Sorry if he cant play for 4 years too bad so sad. To take a list spot for that period of time would be completely unacceptable.. yes support him but sorry he doesn’t get a free pass because of his own stupidity.


On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[PaulSubetro]

1. ASADA test for PED rather than NPED. If Willie is hiding anything it's more than likely PED

2. This happened at the club after a training session. It's unlikely Willie would have had warning - unlike Benny who had people call him when testers were going to show (on a side note - did the club ever get rid of those people?)

3. ASADA have a pretty strict process. Naked from knee to nip and fingers to elbow. There's no way they would have allowed him to have a powerade in his hand or a fake penor. I also assume they make sure the player doesn't have any foreign fluid in their mouth.

4. There's some talk of the gap between being busted and being suspended - "why was he allowed to play?". The only relevance here is whether or not he did get seen pouring powerade into his sample. People need to stop the outrage at ASADA - they have a process. The fact that he played those two games is not really relevant.



A few things we're unclear on;

5. Is the whole sample Powerade, or part urine, part Powerade?

6. If you have a urine sample and it has say, a mouthful of powerade, does that compromise the test? Surely they can still detect the presence of PED? The impression I get from the media is the whole sample is Powerade.

7. When did the compromise happened - was it when he was providing the sample, or after ASADA had received the sample?

Kochie was talking to Tom Brown this morning and made the assumption that because Willie wasn't suspended straight away then he must not have been caught red handed. Tom Brown sort of agreed with him. This is in contradiction to most media reports.

8. What is ASADA's policy? If they see someone tampering do they pull them up and say, "hey, that's compromised. here's a new jar, piss into it again please". Or do they just shrug, take the sample and think, "that's what you submitted, we saw you tamper with it, we'll report that, and if the test backs that up we take appropriate action"



I think there's three most likely scenarios here:

1. Willie blatantly picked up a bottle of powerade, poured it into the sample jar and gave it to them. They might have strongly suggested he do it properly and he refused. What are they going to do? He may have claimed privacy issues or a cultural issue for not dropping his pants.

If this is the case, he has to be given a 4 year ban.

2. Willie accessed the sample after they had been taken, poured it out, topped it up with powerade and was busted.

If this is the case, he has to be given a 4 year ban. The ASADA official would need to be disciplined internally for allowing the process to be compromised

3. He, or someone else accessed the samples after they had been taken, found Willie's, poured it out, topped it up with powerade and ASADA only found out when it was tested.

If this is the case, and they can't prove Willie was the person who did the switcheroo, then the problem is ASADA's process and he must get off.


I strongly lean towards scenario 1 or a variation of scenario 1.

 

[Here2tellyouwhy]

It's like he was caught putting Gatorade in the second test cup while they were busy sealing up the first, but that would be sample B you would think.
Surely he wasn't allowed to hold a Gatorade while providing the first sample and surely he didn't just add some to it as a joke... surely.

 

[PaulSubetro]

I am no experet but not sure a clean B sample is proof the A sample was not tampered with.

No, but it will show Willie is not a drug cheat.

 

[WCErevival]

If he has done what they are suggesting that is completely bizarre. What was his plan when the test came back as purely an energy drink or whatever it was.

 

[GROTTO]

Four-time premiership player Jordan Lewis also cast doubt over the urine sample, saying from personal experience he couldn’t see how Rioli could tamper with it.

“I don’t know how it has happened,” Lewis told AFL 360.

“I’d say it’s impossible.”

 

[GROTTO]

1. ASADA test for PED rather than NPED. If Willie is hiding anything it's more than likely PED

2. This happened at the club after a training session. It's unlikely Willie would have had warning - unlike Benny who had people call him when testers were going to show (on a side note - did the club ever get rid of those people?)

3. ASADA have a pretty strict process. Naked from knee to nip and fingers to elbow. There's no way they would have allowed him to have a powerade in his hand or a fake penor. I also assume they make sure the player doesn't have any foreign fluid in their mouth.

4. There's some talk of the gap between being busted and being suspended - "why was he allowed to play?". The only relevance here is whether or not he did get seen pouring powerade into his sample. People need to stop the outrage at ASADA - they have a process. The fact that he played those two games is not really relevant.



A few things were unclear on;

5. Is the whole sample Powerade, or part urine, part Powerade?

6. If you have a urine sample and it has say, a mouthful of powerade, does that compromise the test? Surely they can still detect the pressence of PED? The impression I get from the media is the whole sample is Powerade.

7. When did the compromise happened - was it when he was providing the sample, or after ASADA had recieved the sample?

Kochie was talking to Tom Brown this morning and made the assumption that because Willie wasn't suspended straight away then he must not have been caught red handed. Tom Brown sort of agreed with him. This is in contradiction to most media reports.

8. What is ASADA's policy? If they see someone tampering do they pull them up and say, "hey, that's compromised. here's a new jar, piss into it again please". Or do they just shrug, take the sample and think, "that's what you submitted, we saw you tamper with it, we'll report that, and if the test backs that up we take appropriate action"



I think there's three most likely scenarios here:

1. Willie blatantly picked up a bottle of powerade, poured it into the sample jar and gave it to them. They might have strongly suggested he do it properly and he refused. What are they going to do? He may have claimed privacy issues or a cultural issue for not dropping his pants.

If this is the case, he has to be given a 4 year ban.

2. Willie accessed the sample after they had been taken, poured it out, topped it up with powerade and was busted.

If this is the case, he has to be given a 4 year ban. The ASADA official would need to be disciplined internally for allowing the process to be compromised

3. He, or someone else accessed the samples after they had been taken, found Willie's, poured it out, topped it up with powerade and ASADA only found out when it was tested.

If this is the case, and they can't prove Willie was the person who did the switcheroo, then the problem is ASADA's process and he must get off.


I strongly lean towards scenario 1 or a variation of scenario 1.

Good post.

So what you are essentially saying is that he didnt provide the sample in front of an ASADA official.

Would you agree if all the samples have been provided in front of ASADA, then something really dodgy has taken place?

 

[Eastcoasteagle]

Still don't understand how this could happen, due to the way the procedure plays out. They watch you very closely.
I can only think, that he did it blatantly.

 

[twce13]

Willie has had a mare. I mean evem if the tester doesnt notice, what did he think would happen when the test comes back.

Some media are saying now he panicked on the spot after using illicit drugs..

Rioli’s “state of panic” led to sample substitution

"There’s lots of theories going around that he’s put water in, he’s put Gatorade in there."

www.sen.com.au

 

[ghostbat12]

Since we are speculating and feel that we should know everything immediately and if not, to hell with waiting and the truth; could he have spat in it?

 

[pantskyle]

So dumb, illicit drugs is just a slap on the wrist and no one else knows (unless it was his third which might be the reason for the panic). Now he'll cop a long ban.

 

[Byron_Clanger]

Something not right here. ASADA don’t care about illicit drugs unless it’s match day is my understanding. They’re only looking for PED’s, aren’t they?

It's the fact he tampered with the sample, that's the main issue now.

 

[freofc1994]

Guys not here to wind anyone up but imo ASADA have a massive case to answer here.

The talk is that the sample provided was powerade. Whilst ASADA are viewing the player providing the sample they apparently give no instruction to the player other than to provide. If they witness the player providing a false sample (water/drink/other urine) then they simply seal it and send it as if its any other sample. For mine that' an absolute joke. If a player does that, then they shouud be provisionally suspended on the spot, its the same as refusing a breath test with the police.

However its been reported that he provided a second sample. Now when testing, the 1 sample is split into A & B. What is going to happen with the second sample he provided? Will they even test that?

 

[ziad]

Guys not here to wind anyone up but imo ASADA have a massive case to answer here.

The talk is that the sample provided was powerade. Whilst ASADA are viewing the player providing the sample they apparently give no instruction to the player other than to provide. If they witness the player providing a false sample (water/drink/other urine) then they simply seal it and send it as if its any other sample. For mine that' an absolute joke. If a player does that, then they shouud be provisionally suspended on the spot, its the same as refusing a breath test with the police.

However its been reported that he provided a second sample. Now when testing, the 1 sample is split into A & B. What is going to happen with the second sample he provided? Will they even test that?

But it is just talk. There are no facts available - yet.

 

[Max zero]

Guys not here to wind anyone up but imo ASADA have a massive case to answer here.

The talk is that the sample provided was powerade. Whilst ASADA are viewing the player providing the sample they apparently give no instruction to the player other than to provide. If they witness the player providing a false sample (water/drink/other urine) then they simply seal it and send it as if its any other sample. For mine that' an absolute joke. If a player does that, then they shouud be provisionally suspended on the spot, its the same as refusing a breath test with the police.

However its been reported that he provided a second sample. Now when testing, the 1 sample is split into A & B. What is going to happen with the second sample he provided? Will they even test that?

"Hmm sample A was Gatorade and sample B is Red Bull. We have a problem."

 

[Dark Sharks]

Lot of pressure on Simpson and the club tonight.

Lot of pressure. You gotta rise above it Vozzo, you gotta harness the good energy and block out the bad. Harness energy, block bad. Feel the flow, feel it, it’s circular. Its like a carousel. You pay the quarter, you get on the horse, and you go up and down and around…in a circular circle with the music, the flow, all good things.

 

[Ben88]

A. Rioli is an idiot
B. ASADA is incompetent

Pretty sure the answer is A

 

[PaulSubetro]

To the people thinking Rioli would be delisted is out of the mind. We don’t do that anymore.

Imagine after one strike we kicked out Ben cousins?

He would be of the rails faster and the blood would be on our hands.

We need to give him that glimmer of hope so they won’t fall in state of depression, sucidal etc cos footy is all they have.

One way or the other he will have a job to keep his mind off things similar to Ben cousin getting a job at footy club.

He'll most likely be delisted if this is a PED issue. The club will probably provide a level of ongoing support for a period before it's cut off.

Sure, there's immense pressure on AFL players to perform, get drafted onto a list, stay on a list etc, but clubs educate players about PED. The club only has a limited responsibility in such a circumstance.