John Anthony - Do We Sometimes Forget...

[Rustin Cohle]

...that the young man is only playing his second season of AFL football, and that this is his first full season in the team?

I know the Collingwood supporters realize his talent, but a lot of opposition supporters don't really rate him too highly. I'm not sure these people actually realize that he is only 21 years old and played a mere 37 games to date. For such a young player to score 50 goals in his first full season is actually quite the achievement.

Players such as Lance Franklin, Nick Riewoldt and Jonathon Brown all failed to reach such heights as early on in their careers. Now, I'm not suggesting Jack is as talented as these three men or that they played the exact same role in their respective teams at the time; however, I am simply using it as a basis to compare Jack's performance against three of the game's best players when they were at similar stages of their career.

Jack is still a young man with many years ahead to develop into a powerful forward and I can only see him getting better as time goes on. The fact that he has had a few quiet games throughout the year is sometimes blown out of proportion, in my opinion. He is only in his second year, after all.

Basically, my point in creating this thread is to firstly commend Jack on such a bright start to his career and also to point out that the best is very much yet to come with the young man.

 

[Torpy]

Agreed, a 2nd year player getting 50 goals a season is a great feat. Imagine him in a couple of years once he bulks up a bit more and gets more experience, he could easily get 70 - 80 odd goals a season.

 

[amer]

The bloke looks about 26, half the people going around wouldn't realise he's so young. He has struggled this finals series so far with 3 and 4 possessions respectively and his only goal in the semi came from a (very much there) free kick. That'll be the challenge for him, to find ways to respond to significant attention from defenders (as it is for all up and coming forwards ). At least over the next season or two you'll find out if he's a forward who can perform as the focal point in a forward structure.

He's an....interesting one though, always seems to trouble Rutten in body-on-body contests which is the thing Ben most excels at.

 

[The Norm]

Yeah, I think I definitely forget how young and inexperienced he is.

I think that's in part because when he actually gets the ball he has an influence on the game, which a lot of young players don't.

His overall "potential" as a key forward appears like it could be a bit limited due to his size and athleticism, but he's been playing some tough roles this year and will benefit greatly from the experience.

If we could structure our forwardline so he could get the ball 10-15 times a game instead of 5-10, then he could be a much more dangerous player.

He definitely has "it" though, and a lot of players don't.

 

[mdc]

Couple of thoughts:
- The whole "he doesn't get enough of the ball" thing is overblown. I personally think JA is a bit of a Daniel Bradshaw clone, and Anthony already gets 11 disposals per game. Bradshaw has only exceeded that number three times in his career, at the ages of 27, 28 and 30. His career-high is 12/game. Jack's getting 11/game at 21.

- One reason for his lack of involvement at times is due to our coaching staff. Where most full-forwards are allowed to play out of the square the entire game, Jack is often used as a decoy (1st half of last week's final for instance), or asked to provide pressure up the ground. So this cuts into his goals and/or disposals a bit.

- Despite all that, he needs just 5 goals through the next 2 rounds to tie Rocca for most goals in a season this decade.

- Strangely, there are still people who believe he's just a stop-gap and will eventually have to fight for a spot on the HBF. I personally think he's our best key forward prospect since Tarrant, and at 21 Jack has more competitiveness and mental fortitude than Tarrant will ever have.

So basically, the future is bright for JA.

 

[The Norm]

Couple of thoughts:
- The whole "he doesn't get enough of the ball" thing is overblown. I personally think JA is a bit of a Daniel Bradshaw clone, and Anthony already gets 11 disposals per game. Bradshaw has only exceeded that number three times in his career, at the ages of 27, 28 and 30. His career-high is 12/game. Jack's getting 11/game at 21.

Good comparison and interesting stats. To get JA roughly 4-8 shots at goal a game (as an aim) would make him and our forwardline seem much more potent.

How many shots at goal a game do you think he'd currently average?
Also what % of entries into the fwd50 is he the target?
Be interesting to see if somebody could find them.

 

[Zahki]

Jack has become one of my favorite players to watch this season, I think he's been pretty good. Bit disappointing that he hasn't gotten much of the ball in these last few games, when you have accuracy like he does you'd think you'd want him taking as many set shots as possible. Not entirely his fault of course, as mdc pointed out.

But yeah, early days yet, looking forward to seeing him grow into his new role even further. Who knows, in a few years he could be accepting the Coleman, I'd like to see that.

 

[Brent24]

Yeah, I think people tend to forget he's only 21 and this is his first full season. He's done very well to improve his overhead marking over the last year, so I have faith he will keep developing at a good rate.

 

[Ant85]

Good call on Jack.

Big test for him against Scarlett this weekend.

 

[captain peanut]

just as we forget that the likes of thomas and pendlebury are only 22 and 21 respectively and in their 4th years at the club. the fact that they are already key players sometimes diverts attention away from the fact that they are still young in footy terms with their best footy still in front of them. even cloke is only 22

just on sat before the game i actually had a bet with a carlscum supporter mate who reckoned pendlebury was at least 24. and i think that is the general perception in the footy world. just accentuates what a great job mick and his team of assistants have done over the last couple of years, and how much we have to look forward to in the next few years

 

[dutchy12]

Guys he's actually been on Collingwood's list for 4 years. Budy Franklin in his "4th" year on an AFL list won the Colemen Medal so any comparisons in this regard aren't really valid.

However you're right in that its only been his 2nd year "playing" in the AFL and there is great scope for improvement. Personally I can't stand him but isn't that a good sign that you have a great player on your hands?

 

[Alexander323bc]

To those who think he can not mark in a contest - he is able to mark on the lead at full pace something rocca was never able to master. He will do just fine. I am more worried about our other marking forwards the last few weeks.

 

[Cousin of Daicos]

People seem to forget 2 things:

a) He's only been playing for 1 and a half years after returning from a LIFE THREATENING neck injury

b) He's not a full forward. He was recruited as a full back to replace clement. Then when all our forwards got injured last year, they had to try someone at full forward. As it turned out, he ended up being one of the best kicks for goal in the league, so they've kept him there, and he now needs t learn how to play the position.

 

[Histrionics]

Anthony reminds me of Kent Kingsley.

Solid on the lead, but struggles to take a contested mark, and struggles when confronted by a quality backman.

That's one thing he doesn't struggle with. You obviously have based your opinion on the last three games.

 

[OniAu]

great topic, couldnt agree more

Hes shown glimpses this year hes going to have the ability to kick a bag, its about getting the forward line to work around him once he develops more.

I think early/mid season he was playing more of a decoy role at times since the most dangerous defender was always on him. By the end of the season he seemed to realise the role he was playing and play it well. Even on saturday night you couldnt expect him to beat rutten one out every time, will be the same case next week with scarlett.

Sounds pretty soft but if the efforts there ill never a bag player out, jack chases as hard as anyone if he doesnt have the ball and his attack on the ball is as good as any, has no fear for his safety considering the neck injury he did have.

Its obvious how highly rated he is with the way malthouse gives him sprays when he stuffs up, good move by MM so he doesnt turn into a big/hot head.

 

[Damon_3388]

I think a lot of opposition supporters and even the media don't quite realise how young our team is, particularly some of our key players. 70% of our list is under 24, meaning guys like Anthony, Pendlebury, Thomas, Cloke, O'Brien, Shaw and so on are still yet to truly hit their prime as footballers.

Even if we don't win the Premiership this year (and don't get me wrong, I'd obviously love for us to win it), we have a bright future ahead. I'm not saying youth is better than winning, but we've got a lot of players who have a lot of quality football left, so no matter what happens this weekend or (possibly) the next, things are looking good for 2010 and beyond at Collingwood IMO

Anyway, specifically on Anthony, if he keeps learning more about playing FF and improving at a steady rate, he should become an 80 goal-a-season forward by 2012

 

[Cousin of Daicos]

I think a lot of opposition supporters and even the media don't quite realise how young our team is, particularly some of our key players. 70% of our list is under 24, meaning guys like Anthony, Pendlebury, Thomas, Cloke, O'Brien, Shaw and so on are still yet to truly hit their prime as footballers.

Even if we don't win the Premiership this year (and don't get me wrong, I'd obviously love for us to win it), we have a bright future ahead. I'm not saying youth is better than winning, but we've got a lot of players who have a lot of quality football left, so no matter what happens this weekend or (possibly) the next, things are looking good for 2010 and beyond at Collingwood IMO

Anyway, specifically on Anthony, if he keeps learning more about playing FF and improving at a steady rate, he should become an 80 goal-a-season forward by 2012

If he can be a consistent 60 goal a year (H&A year, not incl. finals) FF who gets posessions and lays tackles, I'll be MORE than happy with him.

As St.Kilda are showing, you don't need an 80-100 goal FF to do wel/win flags.

As long as others contribute, you'll be fine.

If we could get 60 out of Jack and even 40 out of Cloke, that would be perfect. Because you throw in Davis, Didak, Medhurst, Lockyer, Dick and Thomas chipping in with anywhere from 15-30 each, and you have one hell of a forward line.

As it is now, Cloke is the lynch pin, and it seems he won't be capable of being the key. Fairly or unfairly.

 

[Damon_3388]

If he can be a consistent 60 goal a year (H&A year, not incl. finals) FF who gets posessions and lays tackles, I'll be MORE than happy with him.

As St.Kilda are showing, you don't need an 80-100 goal FF to do wel/win flags.

As long as others contribute, you'll be fine.

If we could get 60 out of Jack and even 40 out of Cloke, that would be perfect. Because you throw in Davis, Didak, Medhurst, Lockyer, Dick and Thomas chipping in with anywhere from 15-30 each, and you have one hell of a forward line.

As it is now, Cloke is the lynch pin, and it seems he won't be capable of being the key. Fairly or unfairly.

Oh yea if Jack becomes a consistent 60 goal guy, I'd be more than happy. 80 was probably stretching it a bit, as it seems only the best of the best forwards are reaching that mark these days. Even as soon as next year he could reach the 60 mark, as well as doing a little bit more possession and tackle wise.

 

[GolDSack]

I have so much respect for Jack maybe because my upbringing is identical to his, ppl need to realise he is still just a kid and his giving us 100% all the time, (his always the last to leave training). I cant get over how many people jumped on his back for his post match interview. Just shows how many idiots live amongst us.... Losers. It takes real heart to tear up after the match, and cmon how many ppl cried with him. (I know i did). Shows you just how much footy means to J.A. I have said this previously and ill say it again i wear the number 9 on my back out of respect for what this kid means and what he has given our black and white family in such a short period of time. I love this kid like he was my brother, and it feels like ive known him forever. Good on ya Jack!!!

 

[TheGreatGrundy]

I was impressed with Jack when he played on Playfair in a VFL final in his first year. He looked the goods in the backline. Cox was at CHB on Nathan Ablett, but he didn't appear as comfortable as Jack in a key position.

Robert Walls was saying on 1 last night that Jack was outnumbered 2 to 1 everytime he went for the ball against Adelaide. He also said that Jack never stopped fighting and struggling to get possession despite overwhelming odds. With our forward line flooded, Jack found himself at a big disadvantage, partricularly in the 1st half.

He is having a difficult run at the moment, but Medhurst would go before Jack if anyone is to be dropped. I loved his 'just a little bit' crying act at the end of the game. If I had been alone, I'd have cried with him, I was so happy for him, the team and, of course, myself. Then when he made the 'little bit' sign with his fingers as he was running across the ground, he won me totally. I am a sucker for emotion.

You are right. Jack is only 21 and can only get better. The same with all the other excellent recruits growing up in the VFL. I am looking forward to the year when all these tender buds burst into black and white blossom and sweep all the awards with their spectacular display.

 

[poulsman]

very true.
his tears were bloody beautiful!

 

[Invigoration]

Anthony reminds me of Kent Kingsley.

Solid on the lead, but struggles to take a contested mark, and struggles when confronted by a quality backman.

He is a better kick for goal than Kingsley ever was though, but he needs to be because he will need to take advantage of any chances he gets. He simply doesn't get enough of it to squander any chances.

I think in the future he be able do a job as a second (or preferably third) forward option, but I can't ever see him being the main man in a forwardline.

I am not trying to be disparaging about Anthony, because true Alpha-dog forwards are few and far between, and Kingsley was a valuable contributor to the Cats at times. But like Kingsley, I think Anthony will frustrate his supporters who will always be looking for him to do more.

Already streets ahead of Tom Hawkins though so I'm not to sure where that leaves the future of your forward line at.

Guys he's actually been on Collingwood's list for 4 years. Budy Franklin in his "4th" year on an AFL list won the Colemen Medal so any comparisons in this regard aren't really valid.

However you're right in that its only been his 2nd year "playing" in the AFL and there is great scope for improvement. Personally I can't stand him but isn't that a good sign that you have a great player on your hands?

Spent a year on the sidelines with a neck injury and the first year and a half developing solely as a defender. May have had an impact you think yeah?

You should spend your time disliking someone who deserves it, like Colin 'bash up my girlfriend' Slyvia.

 

[smiddaz123]

Guys he's actually been on Collingwood's list for 4 years. Budy Franklin in his "4th" year on an AFL list won the Colemen Medal so any comparisons in this regard aren't really valid.

However you're right in that its only been his 2nd year "playing" in the AFL and there is great scope for improvement. Personally I can't stand him but isn't that a good sign that you have a great player on your hands?

Was advised by Doctors to sit out the entire year after sustaining a neck injury in the pre-season. It'd be harsh to count that year.

Anyway, people generally under rated Anthony as a prospect. I was getting pretty shitty that Malthouse dropped him not long after his debut and wouldn't get him back in the senior side despite awesome VFL form. Definitely didn't come off as one of Malthouse's favourite players, but he made the spot his through pure hard work.

His work ethic and natural determination is top notch. He developed his own set shot routine didn't he (correct me if that's wrong), and the weaknesses in his game as a KP forward have been fixed very quickly, which I put down to his hard work.

He'll always get the best out of himself imo, and he can handle pressure.

MDC's comparison to Bradshaw is a pretty good one, I never thought of it before, but I can definitely see similarities.

 

[shawthing09]

Jack's development over the last 12 month has been astounding. He has learnt quickly and gone from a player who would have very little influence on the game other then getting a kick or 2 with most of them resulting in goals.

A player who lead to the wrong areas. Lead into fowards space. Only got the ball if he had burnt a defender on the lead and in general played more as an oppertunist then a key foward. To now being a number one foward who is a good contested mark. Hits the ball and the pack hard causes spillages and puts emmense defensive pressure on.

The thing I like most about Jack as a foward is he has that real will power and clutch that most great fowards have. You can see he wants the contest and wants to rise to the occasion. His not going to be a foward who goes missing when it counts or gives up when the chips are down which is important.

A foward who wants to take the burden on his shoulders and say kick it to me boys and let me get the job done and works to make sure he delivers on that attitude is extremely important.

 

[DaVe86]

It is so easy to forget.

Also, what makes it more astounding is the fact he was recruited as a defender. This means he has basically had to master a new position, whilst also trying to earn his spot in the senior side. He has done all this in the space of 2 years. A huge effort.