John Winston Howard - what is his legacy?

[Pie eyed]

The pathetic breathing corpse is still trying to have his criminality covered up.
Morrison complicit.
campaigners will be campaigners until the worms finally have them.

 

[Present Not Past]

Almost all the parliament wanted it. Climate action.

How the hell did we arrive here in our ‘democracy’

Just as Scott Morrison hid within different portfolios exercising his influence over them as Prime Minister, John Howard hid in Committees exercising his influence over the entire Parliament.

 

[CakeEater]

Excellent politician
Worst Treasurer ever
Did some good things in his term as PM but set us back as a nation

 

[ferball]

Everything wrong with Australia right now is the fault of Howard ultimately.

 

[Present Not Past]

Everything wrong with Australia right now is the fault of Howard ultimately.

Yeah, but how did we even get John Howard elected in the first place.
By Paul Keating backstabbing Bob Hawke and splitting the Labor Party,

 

[sataris]

Yeah, but how did we even get John Howard elected in the first place.
By Paul Keating backstabbing Bob Hawke and splitting the Labor Party,

I'd take PK back in a heartbeat.

 

[peetoo]

Yeah, but how did we even get John Howard elected in the first place.
By Paul Keating backstabbing Bob Hawke and splitting the Labor Party,

Howard peacock sir Joh. Backstabbing not confined to labor. Sorry didn’t even rate Bronwyn and downer, Hewson

 

[ferball]

Yeah, but how did we even get John Howard elected in the first place.
By Paul Keating backstabbing Bob Hawke and splitting the Labor Party,

It doesn't matter how we got him, its the shit decisions he made while in charge.

History will damn him as the guy who had so much to do and the resources available to do it but piked on it and gave everyone tax breaks and money for plasma screens instead.

 

[WireHawk]

A couple of months ago I was on the tram when at the Spring St. and Collins St. stop John Howard walked up the platform,
got on the tram then stood next to me. There wasn't many people on the tram, but a couple of people got a bit excited. One
guy said something nice to him and Howard nodded.

I've always loathed him. He was a suburban solicitor who lived with his parents until he was thirty then, eventually, became Prime Minister. He was terrible for the country. The children overboard disgrace was unforgivable, but he got away with it thanks to his mates in the media and an ignorant public. The bland,unimaginative 1950's were his utopia and he wanted Australia to return to this racist
dead zone. So here he was, standing next to me. His very presence disturbs me. What do I do? He was alone. He is also an 80 year old.

I got off at the next stop and waited for the next tram.

 

[peetoo]

A couple of months ago I was on the tram when at the Spring St. and Collins St. stop John Howard walked up the platform.
got on the tram then stood next to me. There wasn't many people on the tram, but a couple of people got a bit excited. One
guy said something nice to him and Howard nodded.

I've always loathed him. He was a suburban solicitor who lived with his parents until he was thirty then, eventually, became Prime Minister. He was terrible for the country. The children overboard disgrace was unforgivable, but he got away with it thanks to his mates in the media and an ignorant public. The bland,unimaginative 1950's were his utopia and he wanted Australia to return to this racist
dead zone. So here he was, standing next to me. His very presence disturbs me. What do I do? He was alone. He is also an 80 year old.

I got off at the next stop and waited for the next tram.

I have to take a point of difference all sides in the 50s looked forward and we’re more progressive than some of the stick in the muds running around today

 

[Gough]

Howard, Costello, Pell and Windschuttle.

Norway killer praised Australian conservatives

Accused Norwegian mass murderer Anders Behring Breivik praised four Australian conservative leaders - including former prime minister John Howard - in his 1,500-page manifesto. Breivik faced a closed court in Norway overnight accused of carrying out the attacks which police now say killed 76...

www.abc.net.au

 

[geoffjennings79]

Howard, Costello, Pell and Windschuttle.

Norway killer praised Australian conservatives

Accused Norwegian mass murderer Anders Behring Breivik praised four Australian conservative leaders - including former prime minister John Howard - in his 1,500-page manifesto. Breivik faced a closed court in Norway overnight accused of carrying out the attacks which police now say killed 76...

www.abc.net.au

Hard to find 4 less inspiring Australians.

Actually not that hard, 2 recent ex-PMs and a mining magnate and a bunch of conservative senators and members spring to mind!

Lowering the criteria from uninspiring to stupid brings Hanson, Roberts, Bernardi, etc into play.

Wow, I'm going down a rabbit hole even as I'm typing in real time!

 

[nut]

Almost all the parliament wanted it. Climate action.

How the hell did we arrive here in our ‘democracy’

Corporate owned media…
The mining lobby ….

There is a reason why Gina wanted to buy her own media…

 

[Gough]

Hard to find 4 less inspiring Australians.

Actually not that hard, 2 recent ex-PMs and a mining magnate and a bunch of conservative senators and members spring to mind!

Lowering the criteria from uninspiring to stupid brings Hanson, Roberts, Bernardi, etc into play.

Wow, I'm going down a rabbit hole even as I'm typing in real time!

Have a look at Ralph Babet's Twitter, most of it's so asinine that he struggles to find people to engage with it. Palmer should be watching fat Gina to learn a thing or two about buying influence, no way would she spend a $100 million on a dud real estate agent like that.

 

[Gethelred]

This is worse. Lobbied by polluters.

Sliding doors: cabinet papers reveal how close Coalition came to endorsing emissions trading in 2003

The Howard government drafted a statement declaring its support for an emissions trading scheme before abruptly changing course

www.theguardian.com

... worse than going to war under false pretenses on the basis of a presentation made by the PM to cabinet without intelligence support?

 

[Aristotle Pickett]

... worse than going to war under false pretenses on the basis of a presentation made by the PM to cabinet without intelligence support?

Yes it is. Climate change is an existential threat to humanity and the planet.

 

[Gethelred]

Yes it is. Climate change is an existential threat to humanity and the planet.

...

Tell you what: I want you to go to the houses of all the families who lost loved ones in that war on both sides that that lie was not worse than politicians being lobbied to kill a bill in a global economic backwater.

**** me.

 

[Aristotle Pickett]

...

Tell you what: I want you to go to the houses of all the families who lost loved ones in that war on both sides that that lie was not worse than politicians being lobbied to kill a bill in a global economic backwater.

* me.

Tell you what, explain to young children why they will inherit a living hell where millions of people die from heatwaves and war.

 

[peetoo]

Especially as the war was about controlling resources particularly oil.

 

[Gethelred]

Tell you what, explain to young children why they will inherit a living hell where millions of people die from heatwaves and war.

Wow.

At this point, the deaths from global warming are hypothetical; while it can be said that there are people who have been born who will or have died as a partial result of global warming, those deaths can by and large be equated to other things.

The entire war for Australia was predicated in part on John Howard's lies. He has a direct and personal responsibility for those deaths, as opposed to a collective burden borne by a political party in a single country voting down a measure to combat global warming via economics to prevent deaths that have not happened yet. The echoes of that lie still resonate through the history of the Middle East and our own country's immediate past; there are families without children, wives without husbands, husbands without wives and children without one parent in this country due to that lie in Australia, and there are whole families murdered under false pretenses as a consequence.

We have war criminals who would not exist had he not lied. We have a reduced standing in parts of the Islamic world and in parts of SE Asia due to that lie. We have a reputation as an American lapdog because of that lie.

That you are incapable of extending empathy to the victims of that choice is surprising to me. You possess complete tunnel vision towards the ideals you hold, damn the people who are burnt on the way to achieving them.

I am trying rather hard to keep from losing my temper at your inhumanity here, Aristotle Pickett. You've lost respect in my eyes for this.

 

[Aristotle Pickett]

Wow.

At this point, the deaths from global warming are hypothetical; while it can be said that there are people who have been born who will or have died as a partial result of global warming, those deaths can by and large be equated to other things.

The entire war for Australia was predicated in part on John Howard's lies. He has a direct and personal responsibility for those deaths, as opposed to a collective burden borne by a political party in a single country voting down a measure to combat global warming via economics to prevent deaths that have not happened yet. The echoes of that lie still resonate through the history of the Middle East and our own country's immediate past; there are families without children, wives without husbands, husbands without wives and children without one parent in this country due to that lie in Australia, and there are whole families murdered under false pretenses as a consequence.

We have war criminals who would not exist had he not lied. We have a reduced standing in parts of the Islamic world and in parts of SE Asia due to that lie. We have a reputation as an American lapdog because of that lie.

That you are incapable of extending empathy to the victims of that choice is surprising to me. You possess complete tunnel vision towards the ideals you hold, damn the people who are burnt on the way to achieving them.

I am trying rather hard to keep from losing my temper at your inhumanity here, Aristotle Pickett. You've lost respect in my eyes for this.

You're missing the big picture. We are not an insignificant back water. I'm not changing my mind on this and history will prove me right.

 

[Gethelred]

You're missing the big picture.

... I have two reactions to this.

The first one is, how dare you? You're rather dismissive of the very human cost that is directly the result of that lie. How dare you tell those people they don't matter, their grief doesn't matter, their families do not matter?

The second one is, I'm really not. You can advocate for an end to fossil fuels and agreement on man-made climate change without being so completely without empathy so much as to be a campaigner.

We are not an insignificant back water.

Could Australia alone in this single instant of governmental action affected by lobbying have solved climate change, or does it require a more holistic world wide effort to fix the problem (if it can indeed be fixed)?

Hence, we have a responsibility to solve climate change, but that responsibility is both less direct and less immediate than a) the responsibility of government towards its citizens and other countries in entering war and b) the responsibility of government not to be knowingly dishonest.

I'm not changing my mind on this and history will prove me right.

If history proves anything, it's that ignoring the very real human cost of an action in an effort to try and get there faster will both not work and cost lives.

Hope it's not my family on the pyres you're willing to build for your brave new world.

 

[Aristotle Pickett]

... I have two reactions to this.

The first one is, how dare you? You're rather missing the very human cost that is directly the result of that lie. How dare you tell those people they don't matter, their grief doesn't matter, their families do not matter?

The second one is, I'm really not. You can advocate for an end to fossil fuels and agreement on man-made climate change without being so completely without empathy so much as to be a campaigner.

Could Australia alone in this single instant of governmental action affected by lobbying have solved climate change, or does it require a more holistic world wide effort to fix the problem (if it can indeed be fixed)?

Hence, we have a responsibility to solve climate change, but that responsibility is both less direct and less immediate than a) the responsibility of government towards its citizens and other countries in entering war and b) the responsibility of government not to be knowingly dishonest.

If history proves anything, it's that ignoring the very real human cost of an action in an effort to try and get there faster will both not work and cost lives.

Hope it's not my family on the pyres you're willing to build for your brave new world.

Let's agree to disagree. I'm talking about billions of lives and trillions of animals and a habital planet.
You're not seeing my point. That decision not to implement emmissions trading inflienced other countries to do the same and put mega tonnes of more carbon in the atmosphere.

 

[Gethelred]

Let's agree to disagree. I'm talking about billions of lives and trillions of animals and a habital planet.
You're not seeing my point. That decision not to implement emmissions trading inflienced other countries to do the same and put mega tonnes of more carbon in the atmosphere.

You're desperately trying to backpedal from this.

Let it sink in: you're willing to completely overlook a war that cost millions of people their lives. You've decided that a bill failing to pass a house of government is worse than those deaths.

Don't own it. Look at it. This what you said, and what you've tried to back up.

 

[Aristotle Pickett]

You're desperately trying to backpedal from this.

Let it sink in: you're willing to completely overlook a war that cost millions of people their lives. You've decided that a bill failing to pass a house of government is worse than those deaths.

Don't own it. Look at it. This what you said, and what you've tried to back up.

No I'm not backpeddling at all. You're missing the point. It's millions of lives vs billions of lives.