Traded Jordan Clark and F4 traded to Fremantle for #22 and F3 (Carl)

[CatToTheFuture]

Will either turn out to be better than Cerra or a total bust.

What if Cerra turns into a bust?

 

[Polo342]

Jordan dawson is uncontracted though Clark isnt and that counts for a lot. If Clark wasnt contracted youdbe right but he is.

I mean do you think 27 is about right? He hasn't been playing and has been injured a lot hasn't he?

 

[FD2646]

Tim Kelly says Hi.....

Tim Kelly was playing regular AFL footy - could Clark trust Geelong to play him regularly in the 1st team in 2022?

 

[BigCat1]

Jordan dawson is uncontracted though Clark isnt and that counts for a lot. If Clark wasnt contracted youdbe right but he is.

Nobody rates Dawson as an early second round pick. It won’t happen for that. He’s uncontracted and Ade will threaten the PSD but Dawson is worth much more than that.

 

[geelong_crazy26]

Quite happy to let Geelong keep Clark if they are being too unreasonable.

Putting aside all bias you cannot expect to ask a high price for a player you deem not good enough for the firsts.

His original draft pick is largely irrelevant and is not Freo's problem. I really hope the club politely decline Geelongs demand for a high 2nd rounder/low first.

The way i see this at the moment is a glass half full versus glass half empty view point facing off.

Geelong drafted him with pick 15 in a super draft, he flashed onto the scene like a superstar his first year and looked a million bucks, has had some injury issues over the years and played here and there, showed huge upside pre season and got 3+ touches in a pre season game. The club sees him as highly talented and a matter of time as his only 21.

Glass half empty: he has not progressed as he should have, why isnt he a weekly starter?? Should be a regular best 22 by now or his not worth much. Has stagnated.

Obvious which view each club will take to tet and extract what they want. Only problem is given his contracted geelong hold the upper hand, and have shown in the past they dont bluff much like the tim kelly scenario.

Fremantle have two choices and it could go either way.

A) pay up the late first to early second and get him on board now.
B) wait until his out of contract, by this time he might have had a breakout season and established himself as a future star and even possibly re/signed or will cost a top ten pick. Or he stagnates still doesnt become best 22, and you get him for a third/fourth rounder.

There are pros paying up now, and a potential gamble waiting till end of next year.

Depends how fremantle see things.

 

[Moo]

It’s like standing on the tee and deciding between driver, 3 wood or an iron on a 275 metre par 4 when thinking of a come-back to a Freo fan whose trying to troll your club. Using anything will do the job.

C’mon that old line

 

[strauchnyy]

27 will get it done. Geelong will want a pick around 20 but we won't have it unless we trade. Jordan Dawson is valued at the back end of the first round or early second and he is a better player than Clark.

Clark is contracted, Dawson isn’t.

Geelong won’t take 27 for Clark. Why would we? Hold him to contract and actually play him on the hbf and it’s a win for us.

Geelong won’t trade Clark for a pick that’ll end up in the 30s on draft night. Laughable

 

[HFF]

Yes. It absolutely happened.

Then the club has bigger problems and issues at hand.

 

[CatToTheFuture]

Then the club has bigger problems and issues at hand.

Well if you check the news almost none of the 2021 coaching panel is with the club as of now so yeah, change is happening

 

[CatToTheFuture]

I mean do you think 27 is about right? He hasn't been playing and has been injured a lot hasn't he?

I mean if you take an external view of the basis of the player 27 is probably close enough. But if you look at the cats list age pick 27 is probably not a player in their next side to challenge. Too raw for the current group, statistically unlikely to be there for the next run. So losing a player contracted player for that pick likely adds no more value than a pick 70. So best to just try find ways to hold him to his contract

 

[raffrox]

Tim Kelly says Hi.....

So Clark is being compared to Kelly now?

Maybe Selwood can invite Clark around for a BBQ and spin another story about how important he is to the team and stuff?

 

[go_the_dockers]

I mean if you take an external view of the basis of the player 27 is probably close enough. But if you look at the cats list age pick 27 is probably not a player in their next side to challenge. Too raw for the current group, statistically unlikely to be there for the next run. So losing a player contracted player for that pick likely adds no more value than a pick 70. So best to just try find ways to hold him to his contract

So pick 70

 

[WaywardSonSon]

Educate yo'self.

How so, Suma?

 

[Warhorse]

Clark is contracted, Dawson isn’t.

Geelong won’t take 27 for Clark. Why would we? Hold him to contract and actually play him on the hbf and it’s a win for us.

Geelong won’t trade Clark for a pick that’ll end up in the 30s on draft night. Laughable

I think you are going to be disappointed

 

[rgauci]

I mean if you take an external view of the basis of the player 27 is probably close enough. But if you look at the cats list age pick 27 is probably not a player in their next side to challenge. Too raw for the current group, statistically unlikely to be there for the next run. So losing a player contracted player for that pick likely adds no more value than a pick 70. So best to just try find ways to hold him to his contract

I don’t understand this logic. You have to reset at some point. An early-to-mid 2nd rounder is a decent pick, most teams (aside from Gold Coast and perhaps GWS) value these picks. Currently it would be the first time Geelong enter the 2021 draft. Geelong will need to replace a large group of players quickly (10x 30 y.o.) in the next 3 drafts. I’m sure they’d prefer to do that with 1st and 2nd rounders and the odd free agent than 3rd and 4th rounders.

Ultimately the alternative perception from Geelong is Clark is a gun, and he’ll stay long term and perform from 2022.

 

[Pure_Ownage]

I don’t understand this logic. You have to reset at some point. An early-to-mid 2nd rounder is a decent pick, most teams (aside from Gold Coast and perhaps GWS) value these picks. Currently it would be the first time Geelong enter the 2021 draft. Geelong will need to replace a large group of players quickly (10x 30 y.o.) in the next 3 drafts. I’m sure they’d prefer to do that with 1st and 2nd rounders and the odd free agent than 3rd and 4th rounders.

Ultimately the alternative perception from Geelong is Clark is a gun, and he’ll stay long term and perform from 2022.

Thats true but that is negated by the fact that we have 3 R2s already (and are unlikely to want to use a lot of picks this year) so 27 isnt as valuable to us as it would be if we didnt have them. Plus Clark is probably the best player we have outside our current 22 (apart from stewart who was out injured obviously) so with an ageing list he may well play a lot of football next year and be useful in a flag push. Geelong may feel that extra 12 months contribution is worth enough to them to potentially risk getting less in a trade next year (this was essentially the call we made with TK 3 years ago) and/or they may feel that 12 months under a new defensive coach will convince him to stay long term and they may back themselves in to do that.

 

[Shadow89]

Quite happy to let Geelong keep Clark if they are being too unreasonable.

Putting aside all bias you cannot expect to ask a high price for a player you deem not good enough for the firsts.

His original draft pick is largely irrelevant and is not Freo's problem. I really hope the club politely decline Geelongs demand for a high 2nd rounder/low first.

Lol coming from the side who set a precedent of not letting Lachie Weller go - a player who would have been lucky to garner a pick in the first round from any other club -, unless GC gave up Pick 2 for him. You had that ability to do that, because he was contracted and because GC were desperate to get someone, anyone who would voluntarily come to their club and improve their culture.

We have that ability too. Asking for a higher pick than 27 (which is probably higher than his value) is not in the realm of unreasonable, when you compare it to what you guys did with Weller - who was taken 2 picks earlier than Clark at 13 in 2014, and was in a far weaker team where he was gifted games for 44 of his 47 games (played 22 games both seasons in 2016 and 2017 when Freo finished 16th and 14th - before he was traded).

That's what happens with contracted players though. You pay a premium to get them out. Ball's in your court, not ours.

 

[freo99]

The way i see this at the moment is a glass half full versus glass half empty view point facing off.

Geelong drafted him with pick 15 in a super draft, he flashed onto the scene like a superstar his first year and looked a million bucks, has had some injury issues over the years and played here and there, showed huge upside pre season and got 3+ touches in a pre season game. The club sees him as highly talented and a matter of time as his only 21.

Glass half empty: he has not progressed as he should have, why isnt he a weekly starter?? Should be a regular best 22 by now or his not worth much. Has stagnated.

Obvious which view each club will take to tet and extract what they want. Only problem is given his contracted geelong hold the upper hand, and have shown in the past they dont bluff much like the tim kelly scenario.

Fremantle have two choices and it could go either way.

A) pay up the late first to early second and get him on board now.
B) wait until his out of contract, by this time he might have had a breakout season and established himself as a future star and even possibly re/signed or will cost a top ten pick. Or he stagnates still doesnt become best 22, and you get him for a third/fourth rounder.

There are pros paying up now, and a potential gamble waiting till end of next year.

Depends how fremantle see things.

Not sure if this has been mentioned here, but the word is that that the deal has been struck.
Apparently the clubs have come to an agreement.

Hard to see what that could be.

 

[Scotland]

On what metric does Clark have a value better than pick 27? Form? Age? Draft position? 14 games in 2 years, 0 finals in his 3 years with the Cats.

Fogarty was traded under contract for peanuts. Clark is somehow too important to let go but not important enough to play. Whose spot is he going to take in 2022?

He might fit in at Freo, he would be wasted at WC as he is at Geelong.

 

[Shadow89]

On what metric does Clark have a value better than pick 27? Form? Age? Draft position? 14 games in 2 years, 0 finals in his 3 years with the Cats.

Fogarty was traded under contract for peanuts. Clark is somehow too important to let go but not important enough to play. Whose spot is he going to take in 2022?

He might fit in at Freo, he would be wasted at WC as he is at Geelong.

It's really quite simple - we didn't want to keep Fog, we want to keep Clark. That's all there is. If an offer is good enough to pry him out, then we let him go. If not, we'd rather have him for another 12 months than get a pick we don't think is relative to his immediate value to the team. My bet re: positioning is Henderson will retire, freeing up one backline spot, or Menegola plays more inside with Clark being moved to the wing.

I say this with the caveat that I think 27 is probably around his value, but the Cats are probably looking for something closer to the Caldwell trade, given the similarities in draft position, and double the games played in his first 2 years (also under contract too).

Who knows though, as Fyfe seems to think it's a 'done deal or close to it' already, so this could all be bluster too. I'm sure we'll know more by the end of next week anyway.

 

[CatToTheFuture]

I don’t understand this logic. You have to reset at some point. An early-to-mid 2nd rounder is a decent pick, most teams (aside from Gold Coast and perhaps GWS) value these picks. Currently it would be the first time Geelong enter the 2021 draft. Geelong will need to replace a large group of players quickly (10x 30 y.o.) in the next 3 drafts. I’m sure they’d prefer to do that with 1st and 2nd rounders and the odd free agent than 3rd and 4th rounders.

Ultimately the alternative perception from Geelong is Clark is a gun, and he’ll stay long term and perform from 2022.

Earlier picks better sure, but keeping him to his contract, having the coaching group turn over and reset the backline, and then keeping him long term is materially batter then any of the other outcomes.

Even if he asks for a trade the pick being pushed back a round would have been worth the punt.

 

[eastfreo75]

The way i see this at the moment is a glass half full versus glass half empty view point facing off.

Geelong drafted him with pick 15 in a super draft, he flashed onto the scene like a superstar his first year and looked a million bucks, has had some injury issues over the years and played here and there, showed huge upside pre season and got 3+ touches in a pre season game. The club sees him as highly talented and a matter of time as his only 21.

Glass half empty: he has not progressed as he should have, why isnt he a weekly starter?? Should be a regular best 22 by now or his not worth much. Has stagnated.

Obvious which view each club will take to tet and extract what they want. Only problem is given his contracted geelong hold the upper hand, and have shown in the past they dont bluff much like the tim kelly scenario.

Fremantle have two choices and it could go either way.

A) pay up the late first to early second and get him on board now.
B) wait until his out of contract, by this time he might have had a breakout season and established himself as a future star and even possibly re/signed or will cost a top ten pick. Or he stagnates still doesnt become best 22, and you get him for a third/fourth rounder.

There are pros paying up now, and a potential gamble waiting till end of next year.

Depends how fremantle see things.

The top 7 was super not the draft.

 

[BigCat1]

On what metric does Clark have a value better than pick 27? Form? Age? Draft position? 14 games in 2 years, 0 finals in his 3 years with the Cats.

Fogarty was traded under contract for peanuts. Clark is somehow too important to let go but not important enough to play. Whose spot is he going to take in 2022?

He might fit in at Freo, he would be wasted at WC as he is at Geelong.

And here they come. Where are the Rich and Haw fans?

Zero understanding about the player or the circumstances. If you can’t see the difference between Fogerty and Clark maybe take a spell on the Geelong trade threads this year.

Geelong don’t tend to muck around on these things. Contrary to what WCE fans think (it’s not our fault Kelly came back literally fat and content). If Geelong have said that 27 (#30) won’t cut it then I’m tipping Wells won’t change his mind.

 

[philthy05]

The way i see this at the moment is a glass half full versus glass half empty view point facing off.

Geelong drafted him with pick 15 in a super draft, he flashed onto the scene like a superstar his first year and looked a million bucks, has had some injury issues over the years and played here and there, showed huge upside pre season and got 3+ touches in a pre season game. The club sees him as highly talented and a matter of time as his only 21.

Glass half empty: he has not progressed as he should have, why isnt he a weekly starter?? Should be a regular best 22 by now or his not worth much. Has stagnated.

Obvious which view each club will take to tet and extract what they want. Only problem is given his contracted geelong hold the upper hand, and have shown in the past they dont bluff much like the tim kelly scenario.

Fremantle have two choices and it could go either way.

A) pay up the late first to early second and get him on board now.
B) wait until his out of contract, by this time he might have had a breakout season and established himself as a future star and even possibly re/signed or will cost a top ten pick. Or he stagnates still doesnt become best 22, and you get him for a third/fourth rounder.

There are pros paying up now, and a potential gamble waiting till end of next year.

Depends how fremantle see things.

You think his value is a late first / early second? For a player in your reserves? Jesus.

Also your opinion he could have a breakout year and be worth a top ten pick while out of contract is fanciful.

 

[new breed]

Take # 27 , don't think Freo will chase the trade like WCE did with Kelly .

 

[GoEaglesGoSGIO]

Take # 27 , don't think Freo will chase the trade like WCE did with Kelly .

I dont even think Freo will part with pick 27. They have waning interest at best. Clark approached Freo and not the other way around. Freo Id suggest will have probably walked away from negotiations as they stand given Geelongs wants