Josh Jenkins in the Media

[CrowBloke]

Your example of what is good about JJ is in fact everything that's wrong about JJ

(nice to see you being you, again)
Yeah but nah.
I had another good, long look (play/pause etc) at that goal and the buildup. Here's what happens.
http://www.afc.com.au/video/2017-09-07/highlights-qf-jenkins-gets-loose-as-crows-take-flight

The ball is mongrel-cleared by Greenwood to about 8-10 metres from SW corner of 50m square. Jenkins and GWS player (on his R) run towards it, shoulder to shoulder, Jenkins bumps another GWS player (on his L) who falls. Jenkins keeps his feet, ball bobbles, Jenkins waits until Haynes takes possession, tackles him. Haynes drops ball. Lynch takes tough possession, rolls, nice handball to Knight who handballs slick/quickly to McGovern.
Meanwhile, as soon as Jenkins sees that Lynch has taken possession and handballed to Knight, he's off. So is Eddie. You can't coach that. Eddie has that instinct to run forward and does it often. Both Eddie and JJ don't wait to see what's going to happen. They run!

When McGovern kicks the ball Eddie is 15m ahead (N) of Jenkins and about 8m W. GWS player after Eddie is about 17m behind (S) him. GWS player behind Jenkins is about 8m behind (S) JJ, but both have started their chase half-a-second late.
There's some error-of-parallax (camera-height/angle) involved but it looks to me like both Crows are well-clear. Eddie and JJ are running towards goal at slightly different angles.

I think it's super-petty of you to suggest that Jenkins should have run across diagonally to shepherd the bloke chasing Eddie, who was well-clear. With Eddie and JJ keeping (running) their lines to goal it creates two options and after all, neither knows which way the ball will bounce. It actually bounced slightly left. McGovern was smart enough to kick the ball well forward so that either one could run onto it. JJ has a bigger stride and gains ground on Eddie, who has a choice
--- take running shot for goal from angle, or
--- handball to JJ who is overlapping him and will end up straight in front. Eddie does the team thing.
If anything, Eddie's handball slows JJ down a bit, but his GWS pursuer is too far back.
It's a classic, beautiful Crows-of-2017 goal.

I'm not saying that JJ never seagulls a goal, but not that time.

 

[John Who]

Untrue. My popularity skyrocketed

There were security coming for me from everywhere

Sanders, I much like it when you make some witty comments, rather than being a negative troll police.

 

[John Who]

Your example of what is good about JJ is in fact everything that's wrong about JJ

He should have been trying to protect the ball carrier not hoping to seagull from him

Classic glass half empty mentality.
It's like Eddie gets a goal from a left kick 60m torp on an acute angle. Whole crowd goes bonkers!
Standing ovation! Then few minutes later everyone sits down.
1 person still stands and says "Eddie you idiot! you should have passed it to Jenkins who was all by himself 10m out from goal!"

 

[BACCS]

Why are people feeding Sanders? He thrives off any discussion on JJ, he's never going to concede.

 

[Vhaluus]

(nice to see you being you, again)
Yeah but nah.
I had another good, long look (play/pause etc) at that goal and the buildup. Here's what happens.
http://www.afc.com.au/video/2017-09-07/highlights-qf-jenkins-gets-loose-as-crows-take-flight

The ball is mongrel-cleared by Greenwood to about 8-10 metres from SW corner of 50m square. Jenkins and GWS player (on his R) run towards it, shoulder to shoulder, Jenkins bumps another GWS player (on his L) who falls. Jenkins keeps his feet, ball bobbles, Jenkins waits until Haynes takes possession, tackles him. Haynes drops ball. Lynch takes tough possession, rolls, nice handball to Knight who handballs slick/quickly to McGovern.
Meanwhile, as soon as Jenkins sees that Lynch has taken possession and handballed to Knight, he's off. So is Eddie. You can't coach that. Eddie has that instinct to run forward and does it often. Both Eddie and JJ don't wait to see what's going to happen. They run!

When McGovern kicks the ball Eddie is 15m ahead (N) of Jenkins and about 8m W. GWS player after Eddie is about 17m behind (S) him. GWS player behind Jenkins is about 8m behind (S) JJ, but both have started their chase half-a-second late.
There's some error-of-parallax (camera-height/angle) involved but it looks to me like both Crows are well-clear. Eddie and JJ are running towards goal at slightly different angles.

I think it's super-petty of you to suggest that Jenkins should have run across diagonally to shepherd the bloke chasing Eddie, who was well-clear. With Eddie and JJ keeping (running) their lines to goal it creates two options and after all, neither knows which way the ball will bounce. It actually bounced slightly left. McGovern was smart enough to kick the ball well forward so that either one could run onto it. JJ has a bigger stride and gains ground on Eddie, who has a choice
--- take running shot for goal from angle, or
--- handball to JJ who is overlapping him and will end up straight in front. Eddie does the team thing.
If anything, Eddie's handball slows JJ down a bit, but his GWS pursuer is too far back.
It's a classic, beautiful Crows-of-2017 goal.

I'm not saying that JJ never seagulls a goal, but not that time.

I'm no JJ fan but this is 100% what happened.

 

[CrowBloke]

I'm no JJ fan but this is 100% what happened.

I studied that clip for about 15 minutes. Thanks for validating the description upon which the Colonel is quiet. So far.
There was nothing seagull-like about that goal. It was terrific running and clever thinking combined. Lovely goal.
I'd like to see JJ work harder as well. He could up his output and participation for sure and I want to see much more of that anti-Geelong mongrel.

I hope they all bring it on Friday week!

 

[Jars458]

Very pleased with the ignore button

 

[Sanders]

(nice to see you being you, again)
Yeah but nah.
I had another good, long look (play/pause etc) at that goal and the buildup. Here's what happens.
http://www.afc.com.au/video/2017-09-07/highlights-qf-jenkins-gets-loose-as-crows-take-flight

The ball is mongrel-cleared by Greenwood to about 8-10 metres from SW corner of 50m square. Jenkins and GWS player (on his R) run towards it, shoulder to shoulder, Jenkins bumps another GWS player (on his L) who falls. Jenkins keeps his feet, ball bobbles, Jenkins waits until Haynes takes possession, tackles him. Haynes drops ball. Lynch takes tough possession, rolls, nice handball to Knight who handballs slick/quickly to McGovern.
Meanwhile, as soon as Jenkins sees that Lynch has taken possession and handballed to Knight, he's off. So is Eddie. You can't coach that. Eddie has that instinct to run forward and does it often. Both Eddie and JJ don't wait to see what's going to happen. They run!

When McGovern kicks the ball Eddie is 15m ahead (N) of Jenkins and about 8m W. GWS player after Eddie is about 17m behind (S) him. GWS player behind Jenkins is about 8m behind (S) JJ, but both have started their chase half-a-second late.
There's some error-of-parallax (camera-height/angle) involved but it looks to me like both Crows are well-clear. Eddie and JJ are running towards goal at slightly different angles.

I think it's super-petty of you to suggest that Jenkins should have run across diagonally to shepherd the bloke chasing Eddie, who was well-clear. With Eddie and JJ keeping (running) their lines to goal it creates two options and after all, neither knows which way the ball will bounce. It actually bounced slightly left. McGovern was smart enough to kick the ball well forward so that either one could run onto it. JJ has a bigger stride and gains ground on Eddie, who has a choice
--- take running shot for goal from angle, or
--- handball to JJ who is overlapping him and will end up straight in front. Eddie does the team thing.
If anything, Eddie's handball slows JJ down a bit, but his GWS pursuer is too far back.
It's a classic, beautiful Crows-of-2017 goal.

I'm not saying that JJ never seagulls a goal, but not that time.

You can waffle on with as much syntax free word salad as you like, but that is not accurate no matter how times you spin it or logon as John Who

He makes a fairly average flap attempt at tackle that dispossessed the player who barely has it. Ball spills

And JJ runs his tram line to seagull a goal

It's insane to say that it wasn't a seagull.

The goal was going to be kicked anyway, he added nothing. It is the quintessential seagull

Team first was to block for the ball carrier

 

[gothecrows]

The goal was going to be kicked anyway, he added nothing. It is the quintessential seagull

So it should have been Eddie's goal then... but how did he contribute to it more than Jenkins? He made no effort at all to win the ball, and just got on the end of McGovern's kick. Fact is, when Eddie turned after receiving the ball, Jenkins was in a better position than him, so he passed it to him - if the roles had been reversed Jenkins would have done the same (and has plenty of times in other games).

 

[Sanders]

So it should have been Eddie's goal then... but how did he contribute to it more than Jenkins? He made no effort at all to win the ball, and just got on the end of McGovern's kick. Fact is, when Eddie turned after receiving the ball, Jenkins was in a better position than him, so he passed it to him - if the roles had been reversed Jenkins would have done the same (and has plenty of times in other games).

It would've been Eddies 4th goal and not his only contribution for the night.

Eddie is a small forward he's allowed to seagull plus he's one of the hardest working defensive forwards in the league so no one is going to be pointing to that to seagull to make up for his lack of contribution

And who knows, if Eddie kicked 1 more he might have gotten more than a measly 8 coaches votes for his game

Pretty stupid to be comparing the 2 don't you think? The only reason there is any discussion of that goal is that it is an example of the meaningless stat padding that Joe Goose does and it because he was, yet again, completely anonymous in a big game and some are pointing to that goal as a positive contribution

Meh

 

[John Who]

It seems there is a consensus building on him being a middling role player, or that the really good ones might cost too much.

That seems a long way from the claims earlier that he was the best player of his kind in the league.

The former I agree with, the latter is laughable

Sanders, how many times do I need to tell you that Crowbloke and I are quite distinct. Crowbloke talks nonsense in essays. I just write nonsense, fullstop!

And who is claiming Jenkins is the best fullforward in the league? Are you taking one too many Red Bull?

 

[CrowBloke]

Why are people feeding Sanders?

Good question.
I used to think he was relentlessly negative and only came out to play when he could shoot someone down, or try to. Lately, he's supplied a few lengthier analyses of his own. He's even made some positive comments!
Facts can't be argued or disputed, but interpretations of them can be far apart eg his complaint that the JJ goal was a seagull. To my eye, it was not, and the discussion can be interesting.
Bottom line: he's a Crows supporter. Can't be all bad.

EDIT: am rethinking the bottom line.

 

[CrowBloke]

Let's add sufficient to the words you don't understand

*yawns*
Back to the thread: JJ has shown enough to be re-signed for 5 years, shown he deserves his place in the team or at least sufficient to be selected again and again, shown furthermore that he has a soh in his media releases.
I back 100% what he said about Dangerfield, especially this: "... if he marches into town with his Geelong teammates, there’d be nothing better than beating him and reminding him that perhaps he should have stuck around with us and he could be a Brownlow Medallist and a premiership player".
If we don't win the 2017 Flag, I'll be cheered if Geelong beat Sydney and we belt them at AO on Friday week, in which case please Ch. 7, please show many close-ups of Danger's misery in the midst of his ex-teammates joy.

 

[douglyzia]

Well we better win the flag now after Josh's mouth-flapping.

 

[mistylake]

(nice to see you being you, again)
Yeah but nah.
I had another good, long look (play/pause etc) at that goal and the buildup. Here's what happens.
http://www.afc.com.au/video/2017-09-07/highlights-qf-jenkins-gets-loose-as-crows-take-flight

The ball is mongrel-cleared by Greenwood to about 8-10 metres from SW corner of 50m square. Jenkins and GWS player (on his R) run towards it, shoulder to shoulder, Jenkins bumps another GWS player (on his L) who falls. Jenkins keeps his feet, ball bobbles, Jenkins waits until Haynes takes possession, tackles him. Haynes drops ball. Lynch takes tough possession, rolls, nice handball to Knight who handballs slick/quickly to McGovern.
Meanwhile, as soon as Jenkins sees that Lynch has taken possession and handballed to Knight, he's off. So is Eddie. You can't coach that. Eddie has that instinct to run forward and does it often. Both Eddie and JJ don't wait to see what's going to happen. They run!

When McGovern kicks the ball Eddie is 15m ahead (N) of Jenkins and about 8m W. GWS player after Eddie is about 17m behind (S) him. GWS player behind Jenkins is about 8m behind (S) JJ, but both have started their chase half-a-second late.
There's some error-of-parallax (camera-height/angle) involved but it looks to me like both Crows are well-clear. Eddie and JJ are running towards goal at slightly different angles.

I think it's super-petty of you to suggest that Jenkins should have run across diagonally to shepherd the bloke chasing Eddie, who was well-clear. With Eddie and JJ keeping (running) their lines to goal it creates two options and after all, neither knows which way the ball will bounce. It actually bounced slightly left. McGovern was smart enough to kick the ball well forward so that either one could run onto it. JJ has a bigger stride and gains ground on Eddie, who has a choice
--- take running shot for goal from angle, or
--- handball to JJ who is overlapping him and will end up straight in front. Eddie does the team thing.
If anything, Eddie's handball slows JJ down a bit, but his GWS pursuer is too far back.
It's a classic, beautiful Crows-of-2017 goal.

I'm not saying that JJ never seagulls a goal, but not that time.

I recon this is 100% coached. JJ knows he's quick and as soon as we're in possession he's generally off for Joe the Goose. Might start calling him Joe Joe.

 

[CrowBloke]

I recon this is 100% coached. JJ knows he's quick and as soon as we're in possession he's generally off for Joe the Goose.

You're probably right. It's good forward play, isn't it?
I was talking also about awareness and willingness to run* for teammates eg compare GWS' midfield lack of run when we took possession, described on Chs 9/7 and in another thread. JJ's not the only Crows forward who gets easy goals running into open goal or a near-deserted forward line --- that's definitely coached and part of our game plan.
* above --- Eddie has those qualities instinctively, enhanced by his experience and elusive nous. I didn't notice Jenkins (it all happens quickly near the 50m square) until after the McGovern kick in the longshot, but in replay close-up I was surprised/happy to see JJ take off as soon as Lynch's handball goes out to Knight, away from Jenkins. Instead of standing flat-footed to watch what happens, he provides an option. JJ runs at least 70m, hard, for the handball receive and that kind of anticipation and gut-running deserves the goal, from another Betts-assist. We had some luck as well. McGovern's kick could have bounced high, or backwards, or towards Jenkins, but it actually favoured Betts.

 

[Linekers Ears]

Very pleased with the ignore button

Although it makes it hard to follow the conversation at times - and if you do it on one platform, it doesn't follow through to others

 

[CrowBloke]

P.S. at end of Minor Round:
JJ 41 goals @ 66% accuracy, 17th place, which was third for accuracy in the League Top 20.
Tbh, I don't care how many of those are so-called "seagulls" and I'll bet Pyke doesn't either. (CC 23 goals from 22 games @ 48.9%, McGovern 20 goals from 13 games @ 54%)

 

[Jars458]

Although it makes it hard to follow the conversation at times - and if you do it on one platform, it doesn't follow through to others

Some conversations are not worth following. Doing its job. Luckily don't have issues elsewhere.

 

[Sanders]

I recon this is 100% coached. JJ knows he's quick and as soon as we're in possession he's generally off for Joe the Goose. Might start calling him Joe Joe.

Could be. But if it were coached you'd expect him to get more credit from them wouldn't you?

 

[Sanders]

Tbh, I don't care how many of those are so-called "seagulls" and I'll bet Pyke doesn't either.

Well sure, you could bet that Pyke doesn't care but I'd suggest making it a small wager seeing as the evidence says you are dead wrong

Josh Jenkins in the Media

 

[fairfooty]

Why are people feeding Sanders? He thrives off any discussion on JJ, he's never going to concede.

Because its sport and he's sooo predictable it makes for an easy shot

 

[Sanders]

Because its sport and he's sooo predictable it makes for an easy shot

Nothing more predictible than being right

The surprise is always the flaccid arguments made by the lower ranks!

 

[CrowBloke]

I promise, I wasn't going to respond until I read this. It's one of his least humble or sensible posts, among many such:

Nothing more predictible* than being right
The surprise is always the flaccid arguments made by the lower ranks!

Wow. Don't be fooled by the wink. For him, it's about his being right, and our being wrong if we disagree. *Predictable, really.
It comes on top of this:

Well sure, you could bet that Pyke doesn't care but I'd suggest making it a small wager seeing as the evidence says you are dead wrong

Yeah, but nah, yet again. The thread is about JJ in the media and we've both digressed a fair bit in discussing the JJ goal on this page (11). Apologies to OP, Mods and BACCS.
Sanders thinks that JJ did little to earn that goal:

He makes a fairly average flap attempt at tackle that dispossessed the player who barely has it. Ball spills. And JJ runs his tram line to seagull a goal. It's insane to say that it wasn't a seagull.

I concluded from my long post on Wednesday (5.11p.m.) that JJ's goal was a top Crows-of-2017 goal, on the end of a third effort by JJ:
Effort 1) shoulder-jostled by a GWS player on his R, JJ bumps another GWS player on his L to the ground.
Effort 2) the tackle that he described as "a fairly average flap attempt" was actually JJ being careful not to be pinged for holding-the-man, because as soon as Haynes feels JJ he drops the ball (very common tactic, btw) which spills to Lynch etc etc.
Effort 3) he sprints at least 70m to receive the ball, outsprinting his GWS pursuer and Eddie on his L. Please keep in mind, neither Eddie nor JJ know which way McGovern's kick is going to bounce. They are off and running to create an opportunity.

Triple effort. JJ's bump, then careful tackle, then long sprint are really good footy. Definitely team first.
JJ can say in the media whatever he likes to and about his mates, as long as he keeps playing like that.

I've explained myself at length without saying that sanders is wrong, dead wrong, or insane. There is no such disparaging conclusion to be made.
I disagree. Strongly, but that's all.

 

[Sanders]

I promise, I wasn't going to respond until I read this. It's one of his least humble or sensible posts, among many such:

Wow. Don't be fooled by the wink. For him, it's about his being right, and our being wrong if we disagree. *Predictable, really.
It comes on top of this:

Yeah, but nah, yet again. The thread is about JJ in the media and we've both digressed a fair bit in discussing the JJ goal on this page (11). Apologies to OP, Mods and BACCS.
Sanders thinks that JJ did little to earn that goal:

I concluded from my long post on Wednesday (5.11p.m.) that JJ's goal was a top Crows-of-2017 goal, on the end of a third effort by JJ:
Effort 1) shoulder-jostled by a GWS player on his R, JJ bumps another GWS player on his L to the ground.
Effort 2) the tackle that he described as "a fairly average flap attempt" was actually JJ being careful not to be pinged for holding-the-man, because as soon as Haynes feels JJ he drops the ball (very common tactic, btw) which spills to Lynch etc etc.
Effort 3) he sprints at least 70m to receive the ball, outsprinting his GWS pursuer and Eddie on his L. Please keep in mind, neither Eddie nor JJ know which way McGovern's kick is going to bounce. They are off and running to create an opportunity.

Triple effort. JJ's bump, then careful tackle, then long sprint are really good footy. Definitely team first.
JJ can say in the media whatever he likes to and about his mates, as long as he keeps playing like that.

I've explained myself at length without saying that sanders is wrong, dead wrong, or insane. There is no such disparaging conclusion to be made.
I disagree. Strongly, but that's all.

Was this coherent in your head before it came out wrong, or was it always intended to be jumbled word salad in a random order?