Mega Thread Josh Kennedy Hindsight Thread aka 'We sold Manhattan for a bunch of trinkets and a blunt hatchet'

[Mitchell Madness]

Re: Josh Kennedy Hindsight Thread aka 'We sold Manhattan for a bunch of trinkets and a blunt hatchet

My post was in response to a poster who brought up the fact that HFC was a business - I merely pointed out as this was the case there was zero chance any club official will be put on notice 3 yrs down the track and made accountable for the decision (sorry if that is a shock to you but it won't happen).

Therefore the suggestion really is simply ridiculous.


Oh grow up - nobody is suggesting that members & supporters don't have the right to discuss past trades etc (though in Kennedy's case he did leave of his own accord for a higher offer).

And other members also have the right to provide alternative views regarding the clubs decision making - thats why we are all posting on this forum.

But what really irks me in this case, three years after the event, is the suggestion that club officials have done something wrong by allowing kennedy to leave, should have realised it and so should now be sanctioned.

Spot on

Truth of the matter is, Kennedy was overweight, and had a superiority complex (from the words of a mate who played at sandy & bhh with him)
Supposedly, he wasn't willing to put in the hard yards in training to get to afl standard

As paul Roos said last yr, Kennedy got a massive kick up the ass when he got to sydney

 

[Rioli2Gunstall]

Re: Josh Kennedy Hindsight Thread aka 'We sold Manhattan for a bunch of trinkets and a blunt hatchet

http://www.bigfooty.com/forum/showthread.php?t=592755

Just voted for Kennedy.

Also,

good to see the heat is finally off murphy

called that one a few years early lol.

 

[J0NNY B]

Re: Josh Kennedy Hindsight Thread aka 'We sold Manhattan for a bunch of trinkets and a blunt hatchet

You obviously know nothing about business - if you did you would realise there is ZERO chance of anybody being put on notice or being, made accountable .

BTW nobody did anything wrong and the offer to kennedy was made in accordance with club processes, rules and standards.

As a result the suggestion, three years down the track, is probably about the dumbest thing I have ever read on this or any forum.

This is very harsh BB. No doubt Rowie6 just blowing off some steam. After your post I read through his posts over the last three years. He has a good eye for talent. If it was up to him we would have Gary Rohan and Jk3 in the midfield mix.

 

[Brown Blood]

Re: Josh Kennedy Hindsight Thread aka 'We sold Manhattan for a bunch of trinkets and a blunt hatchet

This is very harsh BB. No doubt Rowie6 just blowing off some steam. After your post I read through his posts over the last three years. He has a good eye for talent. If it was up to him we would have Gary Rohan and Jk3 in the midfield mix.

Yep you are probably right Johnny, I probably was a bit harsh because I think this post may have been motivated by some others though I do think the suggestion club officials deserve sanctions because of this decision really a bit rich.

The club makes decisions like this very carefully - especially in the situation concerning probably the most famous name at Hawthorn.

Anybody that thinks they don't is very foolish.

And we don't have all the information but as I have previously posted I find it quite rich insinuating by some, and I am not saying by Rowie, that club officials have totally stuffed up and so, even though it is 3 yrs later, should be sanctioned.

I think given the circumstances we would do the same thing again & every time - we had other players ahead of kennedy, including young players like tuck (see the links to relevant threads at the time) - there really was no justification at the time to pay up to the extent required to keep him here.

He did have the choice to take a 1 yr contract & prove himself but chose to go to to sydney because he realised he would have more opportunity (and get more money) there.

I also think that whether it was the fact he made the move, he had further time to develop or sydney brought out the best in him but he is quite a different player now to the one that left the club 3 yrs ago.

 

[borgo]

Re: On the Couch discussion: Josh Kennedy (Syd)

This is the last post I will make on Kennedy and the HFC. Letting go of kennedy will go down in history as one of the worst decisions the HFC made - period. I didn't realise till recently that we decided to keep Tuck over Kennedy - FFS!!

We let kennedy go for nix yet to this today we continue to persist with a player whose body simply CANNOT stand up to the rigours of footaball - ellis. I know, you know, the whole football world knows that his body is stuffed and has been post 08 grand final. What did we do last year - offer him a two year extension!!!!

On the other hand kennedy keeps getting better and better - now he's pinch hitting as a KPP and taking contested marks!!

I'm f...ing over it - done...

Noel Gallagher
Manchester

What I love most in the 2009 thread about Kennedy was this post by Noel Gallagher

"you gotta be kidding me!! JK has shown absolutely ZERO to suggest that he will make it at AFL level. For a midfielder he wins bugger all of his own ball and when he does he usually coughs it up with his poor disposal.

He is too slow in todays game and just not up to it. While I'm at it you can put his other father son mate in the same bracket -Travis Tuck. Poor disposal and too ineffective".

Seems that the Hawk football department thought along similar lines. Oh well, you can't win them all.

 

[Adelaide Hawk]

Re: Josh Kennedy Hindsight Thread aka 'We sold Manhattan for a bunch of trinkets and a blunt hatchet

I just can't see how life can go on at Hawthorn. We let Josh Kennedy go to Sydney!!!! Maybe we should nail boards across the doors of the club and find something else to do.

 

[beta_condition]

Re: On the Couch discussion: Josh Kennedy (Syd)

Seems that the Hawk football department thought along similar lines. Oh well, you can't win them all.

Nope certainly can't but trade like these Jonathan Hay for pick 18 and Nathan for pick , all but balance it out.

 

[play2win]

Re: On the Couch discussion: Josh Kennedy (Syd)

this is what borgo was referring to, back in 2009, Noel said this......

you gotta be kidding me!! JK has shown absolutely ZERO to suggest that he will make it at AFL level. For a midfielder he wins bugger all ofhis own ball and when he does he usually coughs it up with his poor disposal.

He is too slow in todays game and just not up to it. While I'm at it you can put his other father son mate in the same bracket -Travis Tuck. Poor disposal and and too ineffective.

but times have changed and now......

This is the last post I will make on Kennedy and the HFC. Letting go of kennedy will go down in history as one of the worst decisions the HFC made - period. I didn't realise till recently that we decided to keep Tuck over Kennedy - FFS!!

We let kennedy go for nix yet to this today we continue to persist with a player whose body simply CANNOT stand up to the rigours of footaball - ellis. I know, you know, the whole football world knows that his body is stuffed and has been post 08 grand final. What did we do last year - offer him a two year extension!!!!

On the other hand kennedy keeps getting better and better - now he's pinch hitting as a KPP and taking contested marks!!

I'm f...ing over it - done. Sick of all the rhetoric, justifications, whingeing about draws etc when we simply can't recruit for squat or keep good players, and keep persisting with bloody hacks. No more memberships (been a member for 16yrs), no more going to games, no more posting,finito kaput!

P.S Thank god my beloved Manchester City are on roll....

goodluck you guys, over and out,

Noel Gallagher
Manchester

 

[smithy_9]

Re: Josh Kennedy Hindsight Thread aka 'We sold Manhattan for a bunch of trinkets and a blunt hatchet

Can the blunt hatchet play KPD and do the trinkets have midfield pace?

 

[eldorado]

Re: Josh Kennedy Hindsight Thread aka 'We sold Manhattan for a bunch of trinkets and a blunt hatchet

I wasn't sure to believe you guys regarding Noel Gallagher's post, so I did a search...

Yep, honest to God

My goodness me

 

[QuietB]

Re: Josh Kennedy Hindsight Thread aka 'We sold Manhattan for a bunch of trinkets and a blunt hatchet

Spot on

Truth of the matter is, Kennedy was overweight, and had a superiority complex (from the words of a mate who played at sandy & bhh with him)
Supposedly, he wasn't willing to put in the hard yards in training to get to afl standard

As paul Roos said last yr, Kennedy got a massive kick up the ass when he got to sydney

If this is true I would be pretty disappointed. It is the coaches job to sort that stuff out.

 

[EightyNineChamps]

Re: Josh Kennedy Hindsight Thread aka 'We sold Manhattan for a bunch of trinkets and a blunt hatchet

here's a couple of threads from 2009 that show the sentiment towards kennedy at the time for anyone interested.

http://www.bigfooty.com/forum/showthread.php?t=600058

http://www.bigfooty.com/forum/showthread.php?t=592755

Interesting to read some of the past comments, I didn't post to those threads but I would have said we should give him time as I saw him as an emerging talent. Having said that I would have also said that Dowler be given some more time to come into his own. I think I would have been proven wrong on this one. I just don't see the point to the ongoing nature of this thread, done to death, given our time again we know what would have been done etc etc etc.. nuff said!

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

Re: Josh Kennedy Hindsight Thread aka 'We sold Manhattan for a bunch of trinkets and a blunt hatchet

I wasn't sure to believe you guys regarding Noel Gallagher's post, so I did a search...

Yep, honest to God

My goodness me

A beautiful example if self-ownership, if ever I've seen one.

 

[Adelaide Hawk]

Re: Josh Kennedy Hindsight Thread aka 'We sold Manhattan for a bunch of trinkets and a blunt hatchet

Interesting to read some of the past comments, I didn't post to those threads but I would have said we should give him time as I saw him as an emerging talent. Having said that I would have also said that Dowler be given some more time to come into his own. I think I would have been proven wrong on this one. I just don't see the point to the ongoing nature of this thread, done to death, given our time again we know what would have been done etc etc etc.. nuff said!

This is the whole point. In drafting, trading, etc, you win some, you lose some. No amount of retrospective thinking will change that. It's all very well for armchair experts to look around 3-4 years later and say a mistake has been made.

We've all made errors in evaluating a player's ability or potential value, I know I certainly have, so far be it for me to criticise those entrusted wit hthe capacity to recruit and trade. I didn't care less at the time that we traded Kennedy .. I still don't. He plays for Sydney now, time to move on.

 

[mustang]

Wouldn't it be good if clubs could loan players to other clubs for a time like in soccer overseas. 3,6 or a season.

 

[pgregory999]

Re: Josh Kennedy Hindsight Thread aka 'We sold Manhattan for a bunch of trinkets and a blunt hatchet

One other thing - if Kennedy had stayed at Hawthorn he wouldn't be the player he is today, so the argument that we should have kept him so that we had the current model Kennedy in our 2012 side is nonsense. Instead of developing his game playing AFL he would have been slogging it out most weeks at Box Hill. And it seems that Sydney are really able to get the best out of a lot of their players, so he's probably come on further than he would have even playing in our first team.

 

[FancyNancy]

Re: Josh Kennedy Hindsight Thread aka 'We sold Manhattan for a bunch of trinkets and a blunt hatchet

I feel sick everytime I think of the trade.
No foresight.
Incorrectly assessing the players potential and ability.
Son of a Hawthorn legend, grandson of a Hawthorn legend.
In his second year away from the club he is considered by most pundits as the best midfielder in the country
What a ****up

 

[Davo23]

Re: Josh Kennedy Hindsight Thread aka 'We sold Manhattan for a bunch of trinkets and a blunt hatchet

I feel sick everytime I think of the trade.
No foresight.
Incorrectly assessing the players potential and ability.
Son of a Hawthorn legend, grandson of a Hawthorn legend.
In his second year away from the club he is considered by most pundits as the best midfielder in the country
What a ****up

Perhaps the club didn't get your email at the time?


.

 

[L_J_T]

Re: Josh Kennedy Hindsight Thread aka 'We sold Manhattan for a bunch of trinkets and a blunt hatchet

Mistakes happen guys, you just have to move on. I as a Richmond supporter have seen some absolute shockers in my 20+ years and eventually you just have to realise that these things happen. It was obvious that Kennedy was on the outskirts of your midfield back then and Sydney have a way of making recycled players into quality.

 

[Brown Blood]

Re: Josh Kennedy Hindsight Thread aka 'We sold Manhattan for a bunch of trinkets and a blunt hatchet

It was obvious that Kennedy was on the outskirts of your midfield back then and Sydney have a way of making recycled players into quality.

Yep - and being able to pay over twice his value for three years to do it.

 

[Oneiros]

Re: Josh Kennedy Hindsight Thread aka 'We sold Manhattan for a bunch of trinkets and a blunt hatchet

Hope you gents will forgive the intrusion - just wanted to say, as a former New Yorker, love the thread title on this one, classy work

 

[eldorado]

Re: Josh Kennedy Hindsight Thread aka 'We sold Manhattan for a bunch of trinkets and a blunt hatchet

In his second year away from the club he is considered by most pundits as the best midfielder in the country
What a ****up

Third year.

 

[HawkNation]

Re: Josh Kennedy Hindsight Thread aka 'We sold Manhattan for a bunch of trinkets and a blunt hatchet

The real issue here is Sydney.

They have extra salary cap room, and therefore poach players like Kennedy and Mumford whilst out of contract knowing a three year contract and extra $$$.

Clearly doing this to higher profile players doesn't happen as offering Luke Hodge (as an example) an extra $100,000 per year isn't as significant as it would be a pay packet of $700,000 increasing to $800,000. A 14% pay increase, whilst large, it doesn't have the same magnitude when Hawthorn offer $250,000 to Josh Kennedy and Sydney come in with $350,000 we see a 40% increase. The reason they can, and will continue to do this to good teams is they have the extra room to do so.

Not fair.

 

[Davo23]

Re: Josh Kennedy Hindsight Thread aka 'We sold Manhattan for a bunch of trinkets and a blunt hatchet

Shane Tuck > Josh Kennedy !



Go Tigers!
.

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

Re: Josh Kennedy Hindsight Thread aka 'We sold Manhattan for a bunch of trinkets and a blunt hatchet

The real issue here is Sydney.

They have extra salary cap room, and therefore poach players like Kennedy and Mumford whilst out of contract knowing a three year contract and extra $$$.

Clearly doing this to higher profile players doesn't happen as offering Luke Hodge (as an example) an extra $100,000 per year isn't as significant as it would be a pay packet of $700,000 increasing to $800,000. A 14% pay increase, whilst large, it doesn't have the same magnitude when Hawthorn offer $250,000 to Josh Kennedy and Sydney come in with $350,000 we see a 40% increase. The reason they can, and will continue to do this to good teams is they have the extra room to do so.

Not fair.

The money offer is overstated.

Clarkson didn't rate Joey. That's the real issue.