Mega Thread Josh Kennedy Hindsight Thread aka 'We sold Manhattan for a bunch of trinkets and a blunt hatchet'

[Brown Blood]

Re: On the Couch discussion: Josh Kennedy (Syd)

We can certainly all move on, as long as we accept and acknowledge that it was a bad decision and mistake, and don't try and search for cheap justifications.

Refer to his topic last week, i had a certain internet keyboard warrior by the initials B B try and and attack me personally with irrelevant dribble, for stating the bleedingly obvious....further, he was still claiming the trade was "mutually beneficial" for both clubs....just don't question that term though as your educational credentials, amongst other things, might be placed under the so-called microscope. I am a man with a big heart, and i forgive BB, if he requires a hug let me know and I'm sure something can be arranged.

You really are such a dullard!

I can almost see you quietly supporting the swans last sunday as if that proves you right - though really he could win the brownlow for the next 5 years and it really proves nothing!

As has been stated many times (& I saw dunstall most recently) - we couldn't match the swans offer - we couldn't match a three yr offer and $300K py to a player who had only played 13 patchy games over three yrs on our list.

And as I have stated many times "he was worth more to the swans & they had a higher ability to pay than us" as they had plenty of room under their larger salary cap.

Unsurprisingly these points seem totally lost to you.

 

[Messenger]

Re: On the Couch discussion: Josh Kennedy (Syd)

Interesting when they were talking about 'that' trade and hindsight...

I think it was Gerard who asked hyperthetically if Kennedy wanted to come back what would the Swans accept from Hawks as a trade...

Mike Sheehan & Roosy both confidently said Franklin or possible Rioli as a straight swap!!

According to them, Kennedy is ahead of every other player on our list!!

Jesus Wept. That's just taking the piss.

 

[Messenger]

Re: Josh Kennedy Hindsight Thread aka 'We sold Manhattan for a bunch of trinkets'

I'm merely being dramatic, possibly ironic.

It's like rain on your wedding day.

 

[A Diakos]

Re: On the Couch discussion: Josh Kennedy (Syd)

You really are such a dullard!

I can almost see you quietly supporting the swans last sunday as if that proves you right - though really he could win the brownlow for the next 5 years and it really proves nothing!

As has been stated many times (& I saw dunstall most recently) - we couldn't match the swans offer - we couldn't match a three yr offer and $300K py to a player who had only played 13 patchy games over three yrs on our list.

And as I have stated many times "he was worth more to the swans & they had a higher ability to pay than us" as they had plenty of room under their larger salary cap.

Unsurprisingly these points seem totally lost to you.

U can't "see" me do anything as you have never met or know me.

Kennedy's performances in 2009, particularly v cats and the last few games of the season, were anything but "patchy"

As i have stated to you previously, many other players could have been traded in 2009 (when they had currency) to free up some salary space and receive the same late draft picks. Possible examples then were Ellis Bateman Young Osbourne etc....quite simply you are searching for cheap excuses, justifications/reasonings rather than accepting the decision made was wrong

God help us if your conversing with Dunstall re hawthorn matters as u imply...i need to be unleashed down there, and i'd make a contribution, for starters we won't sugarcoat and massage egos, pretending everything the club does is faultless.

 

[TheFourPillars]

Re: On the Couch discussion: Josh Kennedy (Syd)

U can't "see" me do anything as you have never met or know me.

Kennedy's performances in 2009, particularly v cats and the last few games of the season, were anything but "patchy"

As i have stated to you previously, many other players could have been traded in 2009 (when they had currency) to free up some salary space and receive the same late draft picks. Possible examples then were Ellis Bateman Young Osbourne etc....quite simply you are searching for cheap excuses, justifications/reasonings rather than accepting the decision made was wrong

God help us if your conversing with Dunstall re hawthorn matters as u imply...i need to be unleashed down there, and i'd make a contribution, for starters we won't sugarcoat and massage egos, pretending everything the club does is faultless.

Seriously Ellis, Young and Bateman to be traded after their 2008 season seriously mate at 2009?. You are looking back now and making those decision no one in their right mind would have done that at that time

 

[Brown Blood]

Re: On the Couch discussion: Josh Kennedy (Syd)

U can't "see" me do anything as you have never met or know me.

I posted "I can almost see you...."

That doesn't mean I can!

Kennedy's performances in 2009, particularly v cats and the last few games of the season, were anything but "patchy"

5 kicks and a rating of 61 against the cats and the other games were patchy, nothing more - hardly worthy of 3 yr & almost $1M contract.

As i have stated to you previously, many other players could have been traded in 2009 (when they had currency) to free up some salary space and receive the same late draft picks. Possible examples then were Ellis Bateman Young Osbourne etc....quite simply you are searching for cheap excuses, justifications/reasonings rather than accepting the decision made was wrong

Problem with this reasoning is kennedy wanted to go and we couldn't match the swans offer.

Other players had their own contract situation, played different roles anyway and may have not wanted to go.

God help us if your conversing with Dunstall re hawthorn matters as u imply...i need to be unleashed down there, and i'd make a contribution, for starters we won't sugarcoat and massage egos, pretending everything the club does is faultless.

You do have a problem with comprehension.

I posted ..."As has been stated many times (and I saw dunstall most recently)...

This doesn't mean I was talking to dunstall as you think I imply - it means I saw him on TV state this!

And the mere fact you think this is an important three years after the event shows you really offer nothing.

The club really has far more important issues and challenges.

 

[Harper_Hawk]

Re: On the Couch discussion: Josh Kennedy (Syd)

U can't "see" me do anything as you have never met or know me.

Kennedy's performances in 2009, particularly v cats and the last few games of the season, were anything but "patchy"

As i have stated to you previously, many other players could have been traded in 2009 (when they had currency) to free up some salary space and receive the same late draft picks. Possible examples then were Ellis Bateman Young Osbourne etc....quite simply you are searching for cheap excuses, justifications/reasonings rather than accepting the decision made was wrong

God help us if your conversing with Dunstall re hawthorn matters as u imply...i need to be unleashed down there, and i'd make a contribution, for starters we won't sugarcoat and massage egos, pretending everything the club does is faultless.

Kennedy was patchy without a doubt. I remember watching him play. thinking. This guys decision making is terrible. We couldn't match what Sydney were offering. We thought at the time our midfield was strong enought to take us to another premiership tilt. C'mon and the club is nowhere near faultless. Every organisation makes mistakes. We move on and beat the next team before us.

 

[Agent Smith]

Re: Josh Kennedy Hindsight Thread aka 'We sold Manhattan for a bunch of trinkets and a blunt hatchet

The only logic I get from this was that Kennedy was seen as a successful father-son recruit and therefore didn't fit in with the current team philosophy.

Similarly, Tom Curran at 195cm(?) could be a gun, so we baulked at even picking him up.

I think it's all Ablett's fault, with how Jnr is running around at the moment. The envy it has caused has put our recruiters in denial. I wonder how Sigmond Freud would analyse all this?

 

[Adelaide Hawk]

Re: Josh Kennedy Hindsight Thread aka 'We sold Manhattan for a bunch of trinkets and a blunt hatchet

Pretty sad that all we can find to talk about on this forum is a former player. There would be less talk about this player on the Sydney board than there is in here.

 

[JustKickIt]

Re: Josh Kennedy Hindsight Thread aka 'We sold Manhattan for a bunch of trinkets and a blunt hatchet

The envy it has caused has put our recruiters in denial. I wonder how Sigmond Freud would analyse all this?

I reckon Freud would have had a field day in the Hawthorn threads this week. Years of material!

 

[crazywildhorse]

Re: Josh Kennedy Hindsight Thread aka 'We sold Manhattan for a bunch of trinkets and a blunt hatchet

The father son thing hasn't worked well for Hawthorn. We kept Travis and offloaded Shane, now obviously offloaded Kennedy and all wonder what could have been.
Anyway, just to encourage you all on the Manhattan thing, there are times when the Dutch still sit around wonder what could have been if they had kept New Amsterdam (New York) rather then accept Suriname.

 

[A Diakos]

Re: Josh Kennedy Hindsight Thread aka 'We sold Manhattan for a bunch of trinkets and a blunt hatchet

Brown Blood...rather than wasting everyone's time rebutting your rebuttals to myself (which i can very easily do), u can meet me at or after a game and i will begrudgingly invest 10 minutes of my life and break it down for you in person, we can also determine if indeed i do have any "trouble comprehending".

In essence, i state that Hawthorn should not have traded Kennedy, and could have kept him here, if there was a true desire to do so...you state otherwise, we shall agree to disagree.

 

[dixyland]

Re: Josh Kennedy Hindsight Thread aka 'We sold Manhattan for a bunch of trinkets and a blunt hatchet

We all know he WANTED to go because he would never get the opportunity as a Hawk. Let it go already.

 

[Brown Blood]

Re: Josh Kennedy Hindsight Thread aka 'We sold Manhattan for a bunch of trinkets and a blunt hatchet

Brown Blood...rather than wasting everyone's time rebutting your rebuttals to myself (which i can very easily do), u can meet me at or after a game and i will begrudgingly invest 10 minutes of my life and break it down for you in person, we can also determine if indeed i do have any "trouble comprehending".

Why would I want to meet you?

So, obvious you do have a problem comprehending.

In essence, i state that Hawthorn should not have traded Kennedy, and could have kept him here, if there was a true desire to do so...you state otherwise, we shall agree to disagree.

Whatever - but good to see you are now accepting there are differences of opinion about what the club could have done to keep him and what his worth was 3 years ago.

 

[hawkerjules]

Re: Josh Kennedy Hindsight Thread aka 'We sold Manhattan for a bunch of trinkets and a blunt hatchet

Personally, I like Josh Kennedy.
Some stated that he wanted to leave.
I beg to differ. At the end of season 2009 I spoke with him at the B&F and he said growing up all he ever wanted was to play for the hawks.

He was told that he would only be a fringe midfielder as there are many in front of him and that he may only get the odd game but not considered as a future regular at that point in time.

He was on a low base and the powers that be did not see the value of keeping him. He said if he goes it would be to a place that could see him playing regular games, something he aspired too as most players would.

He did not leave for money as he's a hawk man.

Josh said his heart will always be with the hawks so one wonders what the future may hold.

I'd love to see him come back to the hawks, remember how many including myself were upset when Croady went to Freo.
He was traded back.
Hope Kennedy comes back - maybe when his current contract is up, who knows.

Going to Waverley and seeing the statue of his famous grandad as well as his dad being a premiership player, is a sad state of affairs to say the least.

Hawks could have easily kept Josh but did not elect to let go of players that they could have and now are paying the price.

 

[hawkstars]

Re: On the Couch discussion: Josh Kennedy (Syd)

Coulda, woulda, blah, blah, blah........................cry........cry.......

Same crap different thread.

Can we move on?

Second that

 

[xellis]

Re: Josh Kennedy Hindsight Thread aka 'We sold Manhattan for a bunch of trinkets and a blunt hatchet

Nah, I reckon we keep talking about it.

Was Pelchen still in charge of list management when this trade was made?

 

[grizzlym]

Re: Josh Kennedy Hindsight Thread aka 'We sold Manhattan for a bunch of trinkets and a blunt hatchet

Talk all you like about JK3 in this thread. That's what it's for.

 

[Beandip]

Re: Josh Kennedy Hindsight Thread aka 'We sold Manhattan for a bunch of trinkets and a blunt hatchet

I wonder if he would actually contemplate coming back if we offered him appropriate money and midfielder status when his contract comes up as renewal? God knows we could use the skill and prestige, and more importantly he is still young, just coming into his prime.

Or I wonder if he bears Hawthorn a bit of ill-will, and considers that he has moved on 'body and soul'? Hard to know without speaking to him since he moved... anyone have any insight? I hope his heart is still just as brown and gold as it is red and white

 

[A Diakos]

Re: Josh Kennedy Hindsight Thread aka 'We sold Manhattan for a bunch of trinkets and a blunt hatchet

Personally, I like Josh Kennedy.
Some stated that he wanted to leave.
I beg to differ. At the end of season 2009 I spoke with him at the B&F and he said growing up all he ever wanted was to play for the hawks.

He was told that he would only be a fringe midfielder as there are many in front of him and that he may only get the odd game but not considered as a future regular at that point in time.

He was on a low base and the powers that be did not see the value of keeping him. He said if he goes it would be to a place that could see him playing regular games, something he aspired too as most players would.

He did not leave for money as he's a hawk man.

Josh said his heart will always be with the hawks so one wonders what the future may hold.

I'd love to see him come back to the hawks, remember how many including myself were upset when Croady went to Freo.
He was traded back.
Hope Kennedy comes back - maybe when his current contract is up, who knows.

Going to Waverley and seeing the statue of his famous grandad as well as his dad being a premiership player, is a sad state of affairs to say the least.

Hawks could have easily kept Josh but did not elect to let go of players that they could have and now are paying the price.

Thank you hawkerjules, very well said....you take on the matter is obvious...well at least for some it's obvious...

Just as a further note refer to the paul roos' article in the saturday sun re Kennedy a few weeks back...it actually had the average possessions and clearances he had as a hawk player compared to him as a swan player...anything but "patchy" numbers whilst a hawk, as some revisionist apologists and facilitators of mediocrity are claiming.

As a final note, i am confident he would never close the door on considering coming back to the hawks...his contract is up this year.

 

[Brown Blood]

Re: Josh Kennedy Hindsight Thread aka 'We sold Manhattan for a bunch of trinkets and a blunt hatchet

Personally, I like Josh Kennedy.
Some stated that he wanted to leave.
I beg to differ. At the end of season 2009 I spoke with him at the B&F and he said growing up all he ever wanted was to play for the hawks.

And you spoke to ossie as well 2 years later - and all in 15 posts.

He was told that he would only be a fringe midfielder as there are many in front of him and that he may only get the odd game but not considered as a future regular at that point in time.

He was on a low base and the powers that be did not see the value of keeping him. He said if he goes it would be to a place that could see him playing regular games, something he aspired too as most players would.

Nothing we don't know - though with a certain amount of cream (though surprised he told you).

He did not leave for money as he's a hawk man.

If he didn't leave for money why did he go? And why did the swans offer over the odds if all they had to offer was game time?

And if he thought he could win a regular place in the team he would have stayed.

Josh said his heart will always be with the hawks so one wonders what the future may hold.

I'd love to see him come back to the hawks, remember how many including myself were upset when Croady went to Freo.
He was traded back.
Hope Kennedy comes back - maybe when his current contract is up, who knows.

Going to Waverley and seeing the statue of his famous grandad as well as his dad being a premiership player, is a sad state of affairs to say the least.

Ah yes & such a similar situation!

Hawks could have easily kept Josh but did not elect to let go of players that they could have and now are paying the price.

Gee almost word for word what diakos said .

Yes we could have easily kept him and are now paying the price because we didn't.

BTW how much did we beat the swans by in that final just 7 games ago - 36 pts!

Things change very quickly - even posts like this.

 

[hawkerjules]

Re: Josh Kennedy Hindsight Thread aka 'We sold Manhattan for a bunch of trinkets and a blunt hatchet

So yeah I've only done 15 posts on here as I mainly use the other hawk forum.
Been a passionate member since 1976.
That's all I'll disclose as the above post made me feel like a fly by night hawk person.
I have my ways of gaining information throughout many years since Glenferrie was the hawks home and did much volunteering when hawks membership was well under 20k.
Enough said for now.
Perhaps I will just read the posts and keep my thoughts to myself if you prefer, yes leos like Ossie & me born on the same day share the gift of sarcasm...)

 

[macdaddio]

Re: Josh Kennedy Hindsight Thread aka 'We sold Manhattan for a bunch of trinkets and a blunt hatchet

We all know he WANTED to go because he would never get the opportunity as a Hawk. Let it go already.

Yes i am sick of hearing his name now...
Its not like we threw J.Kennedy out, he walked out of the Club along with Ben Mglyn for better opportunity and more game time, its been done to death now...

 

[Messenger]

Re: Josh Kennedy Hindsight Thread aka 'We sold Manhattan for a bunch of trinkets and a blunt hatchet

So yeah I've only done 15 posts on here as I mainly use the other hawk forum.

There's another Hawk forum? I call bullshit.....

 

[Brown Blood]

Re: Josh Kennedy Hindsight Thread aka 'We sold Manhattan for a bunch of trinkets and a blunt hatchet

So yeah I've only done 15 posts on here as I mainly use the other hawk forum.
Been a passionate member since 1976.
That's all I'll disclose as the above post made me feel like a fly by night hawk person.
I have my ways of gaining information throughout many years since Glenferrie was the hawks home and did much volunteering when hawks membership was well under 20k.

Very theatrical.

We all love the hawks & don't need to prove it to justify a post.

I do notice though you haven't addressed one comment I made about kennedy.

Enough said for now.
Perhaps I will just read the posts and keep my thoughts to myself if you prefer, yes leos like Ossie & me born on the same day share the gift of sarcasm...)

No, I am interested why did the swans offer kennedy such an incredible deal if he didn't leave for the money?

Surely if this was the case they could have matched our offer but just guaranteed him the game time that we weren't in the position to do?