Coach Justin Longmuir Pt 2

[Freomaniac]

Honest to goodness we don't want Ratten.

It's time to reiterate the stat, after Fagan won yesterday he is now the 19th individual premiership coach in the past thirty years since we entered the comp. He is the 18th of those 19 to have made at least one prelim in their first five years as a coach.

With our bloke reaching 100 games this year, he is now only the 7th coach in thirty years to have survived to coach at least 100 games without making a prelim. Ratten is one of the others. In that illustrious company wih them are Voss, Dew, Judge, Richardson and yes, Hardwick. That's it for the last 30 years.

Ratten is no upgrade, we may as well stick with what we have. And people always rabbiting on about Hardwick need to take note, he's a massive outlier, it's more likely we have a Ratten or Judge on our hands .

fair enough...

You got Confidence with a fully fit playing Squad and Justin Longmuir as coach, the dockers can and make finals in 2025?

 

[The Feeder Club]

fair enough...

You got Confidence with a fully fit playing Squad and Justin Longmuir as coach, the dockers can and make finals in 2025?

Yes but I share the viiew of wakojako as espoused above (and others). Making finals next year s insufficient evidence to me that he's a premiership coach. That's all I care about really. I know you have said you'd be satisfied with a run of 2-3 years of making finals, but I am not sure how many agree with that as the ultimate ambition

 

[Freomaniac]

Yes but I share the viiew of wakojako as espoused above (and others). Making finals next year s insufficient evidence to me that he's a premiership coach. That's all I care about really. I know you have said you'd be satisfied with a run of 2-3 years of making finals, but I am not sure how many agree with that as the ultimate ambition

the reason why I am happy with this club making finals for 2 or 3 years in a row is because we have only done that once in our 30 year history.

We should of made back to back finals in 2005-6 under chris connolly and back to back finals under Justin Longmuir in 2021-22. Hell even a bag average and injury riddled carlton made back to back finals in 2023-4. Carlton had a soft draw and all the umpires help in 2024 as well.

Sick and tired of the tease. PLay decent footy for some parts of the season. But not make finals.


We are not going to spend 3 or 4 years in a row outside the top 8 then snag a flag after that.

Decent sides that win flags have sustained finals runs and win finals before getting that flag.

Brisbanes side of 2019 to 2024 proves that.

Funny how Brisbane had a finals run of 1999 to 2004 as well.

 

[The Feeder Club]

the reason why I am happy with this club making finals for 2 or 3 years in a row is because we have only done that once in our 30 year history.

We should of made back to back finals in 2005-6 under chris connolly and back to back finals under Justin Longmuir in 2021-22. Hell even a bag average and injury riddled carlton made back to back finals in 2023-4. Carlton had a soft draw and all the umpires help in 2024 as well.

Sick and tired of the tease. PLay decent footy for some parts of the season. But not make finals.


We are not going to spend 3 or 4 years in a row outside the top 8 then snag a flag after that.

Decent sides that win flags have sustained finals runs and win finals before getting that flag.

Brisbanes side of 2019 to 2024 proves that.

Funny how Brisbane had a finals run of 1999 to 2004 as well.

I must have misunderstood your prior posts. I thought you meant playing finals for 2-3 years was the destination. What you're describing here is it being part of the journey to get to the destination. I'd imagine everyone would agree with that

 

[Freomaniac]

I must have misunderstood your prior posts. I thought you meant playing finals for 2-3 years was the destination. What you're describing here is it being part of the journey to get to the destination. I'd imagine everyone would agree with that

In a way Playing finals for 2 or 3 or 4 years in a row is a destination for me.

But if we have another finals run like we did in 2012 to 2015, You expect one or actual shots to win the flag.

 

[trenton wave]

Cox to west coast. Longmuir to Sydney and Longmire to Fremantle. Sydney and Fremantle only have to change one vowel on the stationery and many fans wouldn’t know the difference (PS I have no strong views that Longmuir should be sacked, but the Sydney board thread puts things in perspective) And sorry Port fans, Ken stays there because we enjoy your ranting about how he is the pure evil, incompetent - but at same time corrupt - monster walking planet earth to annoy Port fans and destroy their good reputation.

 

[WilloTree]

It's also dumb to say our percentage indicates we deserved to play finals.

It's 'a load of crap' lol


Our percentage looks ok because we had big wins against bottom-of-the-ladder teams, thats all it shows. Our performance against other potential finalists tells the real story.


Saying the Dockers are a middling team is being generous.

It's so difficult to know exactly where we're at after this year, especially after we've now watched the finals.

Are we bottom 4? No, but we have forwards who wouldn't get a game anywhere else, so that's an issue.

Are we genuine Premiership contenders? No. Age and Games Played profile just doesn't fit. Nor, does the cattle of our forward half or "Scores For'.

Are we top 4 worthy? Possibly, but we'd have to change how we score. The top 3 teams this year were the 3 highest scoring teams, and none of them were in the top 4 "Scores Against". That's a big shift.


Our performance against the other teams around us include:
Bris W 23 pts
Carl L 10 pts
Port L 3 pts
WB W 20 pts
Col Draw
Haw L 13 pts
Ess L 1 pt
Geel L 11 pts
GWS 9 pts
Pt A 20 pts

Our two big losses were V Eagles and Western Bulldogs.

It's such an even competition now I'm genuinely surprised there are still people who think losing Treacy, Darcy and Pearce didn't cost us top 8.

 

[arsesmart]

It's so difficult to know exactly where we're at after this year, especially after we've now watched the finals.

Are we bottom 4? No, but we have forwards who wouldn't get a game anywhere else, so that's an issue.

Are we genuine Premiership contenders? No. Age and Games Played profile just doesn't fit. Nor, does the cattle of our forward half or "Scores For'.

Are we top 4 worthy? Possibly, but we'd have to change how we score. The top 3 teams this year were the 3 highest scoring teams, and none of them were in the top 4 "Scores Against". That's a big shift.


Our performance against the other teams around us include:
Bris W 23 pts
Carl L 10 pts
Port L 3 pts
WB W 20 pts
Col Draw
Haw L 13 pts
Ess L 1 pt
Geel L 11 pts
GWS 9 pts
Pt A 20 pts

Our two big losses were V Eagles and Western Bulldogs.

It's such an even competition now I'm genuinely surprised there are still people who think losing Treacy, Darcy and Pearce didn't cost us top 8.

What this year told me really reinforced the huge part luck can play in a premiership.

Brisvegas is one of the least intimidating premier's for some time. Barely got to the GF by the skin of their teeth with lots of fortune needed to get out of the holes other teams had put them in. Also got to have a preview game at the MCG the week before, whereas Sydney needed to Google maps their way there.

 

[MadMac]

It shows he hasn’t been able to curate a style of football that holds up against the better teams in the competition, and even if we were to make finals we’d probably be bundled out in week 1 anyway. We play a style of football that’s susceptible to pressure, whilst not pressuring enough ourselves. That’s not gonna cut it in the high intensity, high octane environment of finals footy.

This is hard to argue with. I don’t think it’s a case of “slight adjustment” in the off season, this is a fundamental issue. Even if we have the greatest trade period ever it won’t guarantee anything except maybe a better home and away season performance.
Time will tell

 

[Wigarus]

It's so difficult to know exactly where we're at after this year, especially after we've now watched the finals.

Are we bottom 4? No, but we have forwards who wouldn't get a game anywhere else, so that's an issue.

Are we genuine Premiership contenders? No. Age and Games Played profile just doesn't fit. Nor, does the cattle of our forward half or "Scores For'.

Are we top 4 worthy? Possibly, but we'd have to change how we score. The top 3 teams this year were the 3 highest scoring teams, and none of them were in the top 4 "Scores Against". That's a big shift.


Our performance against the other teams around us include:
Bris W 23 pts
Carl L 10 pts
Port L 3 pts
WB W 20 pts
Col Draw
Haw L 13 pts
Ess L 1 pt
Geel L 11 pts
GWS 9 pts
Pt A 20 pts

Our two big losses were V Eagles and Western Bulldogs.

It's such an even competition now I'm genuinely surprised there are still people who think losing Treacy, Darcy and Pearce didn't cost us top 8.

It might be difficult for you because you are so invested in the franchise. But it's not difficult. It's beyond obvious at this stage. Freo only makes football headlines when they are doing well so why would any drums be beating for him?



I mean even look at the most recent West Coast appointment compared to Longmuir and you can tell that they did more due diligence, they canvassed the marketplace, they brought in outside people to make a decision. Compared to Jlo being interviewed by ex-teammates, a builder, and his lackey.

He played in consecutive Grand finals (under Ross, so that's a win for me already ), compared with Longmuir who never played finals 2 years in a row.

Adam Simpson left on much better terms, they acknowledged the rebuild and now the new coach is not under finals pressure from day one as opposed to JLo who has been a failure from season 1 in many supporters' eyes because 'supposedly' Ross was fired cos he didn't make finals. The reality is, we beat 3 top 4 teams in 2019 (a feat JLo hasn't been able to accomplish), and if he was being measured against the same yardstick as Ross would have been long gone by now.

 

[Van_Dyke]

they brought in outside people to make a decision

the west coast coaching panel featured 2 board members, the CEO, GM of footy and someone else who is already on staff part time in Taylor, that description feels like a stretch. the panel that appointed JL featured 3 board members, GM of footy + McPharlin and was led by an 'independent facilitator' Damien Eves. From the outside it feels close to impossible to say which one was more independent really

 

[WilloTree]

What this year told me really reinforced the huge part luck can play in a premiership.

Brisvegas is one of the least intimidating premier's for some time. Barely got to the GF by the skin of their teeth with lots of fortune needed to get out of the holes other teams had put them in. Also got to have a preview game at the MCG the week before, whereas Sydney needed to Google maps their way there.

Google maps.. ha... nice one Centurion, Like it, like it.

 

[Wigarus]

the west coast coaching panel featured 2 board members, the CEO, GM of footy and someone else who is already on staff part time in Taylor, that description feels like a stretch. the panel that appointed JL featured 3 board members, GM of footy + McPharlin and was led by an 'independent facilitator' Damien Eves. From the outside it feels close to impossible to say which one was more independent really

You can spin it whichever way you want. Yeah they probably used all of the same positions at the football club, they all have the same titles but you are deceiving yourself if you think the quality of the people in those positions are the same. You also conveniently ignore the obvious conflict of interest in Bell being the GM of football and an ex-teammate of JLO so why add ANOTHER ex-teammate if they wanted to be impartial? edit - and our CEO was? resigned over the sacking of Ross. edit edit - and Damian Eves was an Alcock employee - hardly independent.

It's not that difficult. What unique insights does this board member bring to the table concerning winning an AFL premiership?

I'm convinced the team they put together to hire JLO was put together to hire JLO, not to find the best coach available. I mean there are 5 years of repeated arguments in this thread alone so it's not worth arguing, I'm not trying to convince anyone. I'm convinced. That's all I'm saying.

 

[The Feeder Club]

the west coast coaching panel featured 2 board members, the CEO, GM of footy and someone else who is already on staff part time in Taylor, that description feels like a stretch. the panel that appointed JL featured 3 board members, GM of footy + McPharlin and was led by an 'independent facilitator' Damien Eves. From the outside it feels close to impossible to say which one was more independent really

One of our board members didn't even bother showing up for one of the interviews though, that's how much of an open process it really was

 

[Van_Dyke]

One of our board members didn't even bother showing up for one of the interviews though, that's how much of an open process it really was

ok i'll be honest, i don't remember that

 

[WilloTree]

It might be difficult for you because you are so invested in the franchise. But it's not difficult. It's beyond obvious at this stage. Freo only makes football headlines when they are doing well so why would any drums be beating for him?



I mean even look at the most recent West Coast appointment compared to Longmuir and you can tell that they did more due diligence, they canvassed the marketplace, they brought in outside people to make a decision. Compared to Jlo being interviewed by ex-teammates, a builder, and his lackey.

He played in consecutive Grand finals (under Ross, so that's a win for me already ), compared with Longmuir who never played finals 2 years in a row.

Adam Simpson left on much better terms, they acknowledged the rebuild and now the new coach is not under finals pressure from day one as opposed to JLo who has been a failure from season 1 in many supporters' eyes because 'supposedly' Ross was fired cos he didn't make finals. The reality is, we beat 3 top 4 teams in 2019 (a feat JLo hasn't been able to accomplish), and if he was being measured against the same yardstick as Ross would have been long gone by now.

I think you may have misunderstood. I was replying to the evenness of the competition. But in response if you don't think there was significant media regarding JL this year I really don't know what to tell you. If the drums were any louder we'd all have tinnitus.

Cornes and Healy disagree on Longmuir’s surprising contract extension

The Dockers opted to extend their coach despite mounting media pressure.

www.sen.com.au

‘PR stunt gone wrong’: Dockers blasted over ‘farcical’ new coach deal that ‘doesn’t do anything’

‘PR stunt gone wrong’: Dockers blasted over ‘farcical’ new coach deal that ‘doesn’t do anything’

www.foxsports.com.au

 

[Wigarus]

I think you may have misunderstood. I was replying to the evenness of the competition. But in response if you don't think there was significant media regarding JL this year I really don't know what to tell you. If the drums were any louder we'd all have tinnitus.

Cornes and Healy disagree on Longmuir’s surprising contract extension

The Dockers opted to extend their coach despite mounting media pressure.

www.sen.com.au

‘PR stunt gone wrong’: Dockers blasted over ‘farcical’ new coach deal that ‘doesn’t do anything’

‘PR stunt gone wrong’: Dockers blasted over ‘farcical’ new coach deal that ‘doesn’t do anything’

www.foxsports.com.au

I didn't misunderstand. You incorrectly think the competition is even, I get it. But the top 8 doesn't change a huge amount from year to year so clearly the teams that are 'just a little bit better' are consistently 'just a little bit better'. JLO has lost more than he's won against the top teams every year so he's consistently 'a little bit worse'. You argue that the losing margins aren't great so it's almost as good as a win. You're wrong.


About the media, you are again wrong. The articles you presented (Vic media from before the season started) are proof positive that you are wrong. Every single time Harley Reid is on the back page of the West for nothing proves you are wrong.

 

[The Lobbster]

I didn't misunderstand. You incorrectly think the competition is even, I get it. But the top 8 doesn't change a huge amount from year to year so clearly the teams that are 'just a little bit better' are consistently 'just a little bit better'. JLO has lost more than he's won against the top teams every year so he's consistently 'a little bit worse'. You argue that the losing margins aren't great so it's almost as good as a win. You're wrong.


About the media, you are again wrong. The articles you presented (Vic media from before the season started) are proof positive that you are wrong. Every single time Harley Reid is on the back page of the West for nothing proves you are wrong.

In general there are 2-3 changes within the top 8 year upon year. This year, the dogs, cats and hawks all played finals despite not playing them in 2023. Considering there are only 8 spots, 2-3 changes is a significant amount

The Harley Reid thing isn’t a particularly strong point. The fact that HR is on the back page is not evidence that JL didn’t face media pressure. It’s proof that the West values selling papers and is targeting their largest market.

 

[Wigarus]

In general there are 2-3 changes within the top 8 year upon year. This year, the dogs, cats and hawks all played finals despite not playing them in 2023. Considering there are only 8 spots, 2-3 changes is a significant amount

The Harley Reid thing isn’t a particularly strong point. The fact that HR is on the back page is not evidence that JL didn’t face media pressure. It’s proof that the West values selling papers and is targeting their largest market.

Ah yes, the dogs, cats and hawks. Statistical outliers that never seem to make the finals. well you've certainly made a fool out of me good sir.

You can convince yourself it's even if you want but 2-3 teams changing each year is not even I mean honestly, imagine picking those three teams to try and prove the competition is even lol

Even would be Gold Coast making finals half the years they've existed (or even the dockers lol)


edit - really felt even when we had to play a final in Geelong for the only time in a century and gee I love how even it feels when we go to Launceston each year

 

[DocT]

Interesting article. a lot there to agree/disagree with but the central point Roos makes, that you have to make 'difficult/brutal' decisions to win a GF, is an important perspective for where we are at as a club wrt coaches and players. If we are going to get to the top, no doubt we have a lot of difficult decisions in the coming years.

'You have to leave': Paul Roos urges Swans to make brutal calls on any players dealing with grand final scarring

The man who led Sydney to a drought-breaking premiership win in 2005 has called on the club to get more ruthless as it reels from a second grand final thumping in three seasons.

www.abc.net.au

 

[Dockeroo]

Interesting article. a lot there to agree/disagree with but the central point Roos makes, that you have to make 'difficult/brutal' decisions to win a GF, is an important perspective for where we are at as a club wrt coaches and players. If we are going to get to the top, no doubt we have a lot of difficult decisions in the coming years.

'You have to leave': Paul Roos urges Swans to make brutal calls on any players dealing with grand final scarring

The man who led Sydney to a drought-breaking premiership win in 2005 has called on the club to get more ruthless as it reels from a second grand final thumping in three seasons.

www.abc.net.au

Interesting piece.

It’s the manner of the defeats that scar Sydney so much.
There is a huge difference between how the lions lost last year when they played mostly superb football but were just pipped, and the two defeats the swans have suffered.

There was a massive systems failure with many of the same players two finals in a row, and the changes required will be dramatic to avoid it happening again.

You could not trust the majority of those swans players in a grand final now.

 

[deputy]

Jlo is a great assistant coach,He hasn't got the demeanour nor character to lead a group of men into battle.Game day he lacks the mettle to inspire the extra 5 percent that the players need continuously.Nail biting every game does my head in.
Lovely country guy but we need a different front man who has the respect of the whole football team.
I know it's not going to happen and we Freo supporters will get more of the same as usual.We missed the last 2 finals campaigns and that is not going forward,He's out of his depth as the Front man.
Will we have to put up with West Coast beating us to the finals before anyone of this board wakes up.JLO would never have got West Coast coaching gig, Why wouldn't we look at Simpson who got them to a G/F in their second year.They were ready to go over the cliff like they have done with that ageing list in his last few years.Simpson Jlo combo is fine .

 

[Purpleheart_56]

Simpson would never win premiership if Sam Mitchel did not come to WC...

 

[WilloTree]

I didn't misunderstand. You incorrectly think the competition is even, I get it. But the top 8 doesn't change a huge amount from year to year so clearly the teams that are 'just a little bit better' are consistently 'just a little bit better'. JLO has lost more than he's won against the top teams every year so he's consistently 'a little bit worse'. You argue that the losing margins aren't great so it's almost as good as a win. You're wrong.


About the media, you are again wrong. The articles you presented (Vic media from before the season started) are proof positive that you are wrong. Every single time Harley Reid is on the back page of the West for nothing proves you are wrong.

OK. You don't think the competition is relatively even. I think we can respectfully disagree on that and move on.

There has defiantly been a misunderstanding though. My point was at no time that losing margins are as good as a win. I honestly have no idea where you got that from. I also never even mentioned Harley Reid and can't see how it's at all relevant to JL's scrutiny.

I'm not trying to be a smart-arse, but are you sure you're replying to the right poster?

 

[ignoramus]

the west coast coaching panel featured 2 board members, the CEO, GM of footy and someone else who is already on staff part time in Taylor, that description feels like a stretch. the panel that appointed JL featured 3 board members, GM of footy + McPharlin and was led by an 'independent facilitator' Damien Eves. From the outside it feels close to impossible to say which one was more independent really

Wait — Taylor was on the WC coach selection panel?!