Coach Justin Longmuir Pt 2

[dropbear101]

Come on what do you expect Caleb and Andy to say?
They are always going to say the right cliches in a post game interview. I’m not saying anything they said is wrong but those kind of club-sponsored puff pieces aren’t much evidence of anything.

For instance I heard Andy saying tonight “I’m happy to go to the flanks when we need it to let Switta loose in the midfield”. That particular comment was interesting because I recently happened to sit beside an immediate family member of Andy at the north Melbourne game and a few times andy was on the wing at centre bounces during that match. This person said to me “I hate seeing him positioned out there. He should be in the centre square it’s where he is best, thats where he wants to be too”

Now of course he does. What elite midfielder wants to be relegated to the wing or HFF when a game is on the line in the final quarter? Of course Andy is far too well coached by the media to ever hint at that in an interview with Duck and Oz of all people.

For what it’s worth I thought it was a great move by JL to bring Switta into the middle late on tonight and he’s far more impactful as a small midfielder than as a small forward. It was Swittas best game of a pretty average season for him so far.

he won't be there forever. fyfe only has a year or 2 left.

 

[dropbear101]

His results so far are a pass, but he's definitely building something imo.
If you changed coaches, you'd just go back to square one imo

agreed

 

[ubiquitous226]

His results so far are a pass, but he's definitely building something imo.
If you changed coaches, you'd just go back to square one imo

I get some of the angst, we're impatient for success and regressing always feels worse than just steady linear progress.

JLo still has to prove he can consistently get the best out of the group, the age profile of the list and COVID impacts are all factors in how that has worked.

There are enough signs the foundations are there, and also enough uncertainties for reasonable doubts.

Changing coaches now would be a bad decision in my view, but if we stagnate again this year and start of next then we're in a position to pull the pin and try something new with what should be a very good list.
Preferably JLo proves the positive signs are real and he continues on.

 

[freoextra]

I’m tipping a Sonny rebound in Alice this weekend
Reckon he will embrace the occasion

I can’t see him being dropped , more likely Emmet

I agree Sonny won’t be dropped (Emmett far more likely). However, I am not as optimistic about Sonny embracing the occasion this week, why would it be more important to him than the last two weeks?

I hope to see some more Sonny brilliance but there is no denying the cliff is coming quickly. Sonny needs some decent breaks to have any chance of playing well in the second half of the year.

 

[oldgoat]

Come on what do you expect Caleb and Andy to say?
They are always going to say the right cliches in a post game interview. I’m not saying anything they said is wrong but those kind of club-sponsored puff pieces aren’t much evidence of anything.

For instance I heard Andy saying tonight “I’m happy to go to the flanks when we need it to let Switta loose in the midfield”. That particular comment was interesting because I recently happened to sit beside an immediate family member of Andy at the north Melbourne game and a few times andy was on the wing at centre bounces during that match. This person said to me “I hate seeing him positioned out there. He should be in the centre square it’s where he is best, thats where he wants to be too”

Now of course he does. What elite midfielder wants to be relegated to the wing or HFF when a game is on the line in the final quarter? Of course Andy is far too well coached by the media to ever hint at that in an interview with Duck and Oz of all people.

For what it’s worth I thought it was a great move by JL to bring Switta into the middle late on tonight and he’s far more impactful as a small midfielder than as a small forward. It was Swittas best game of a pretty average season for him so far.

Ok I went and watched PR...I heard it differently.

I am very familiar with players and coaches talking in cliches, commentators do it a lot too.
Sometimes its about keeping secrets, very often it comes from seeing things in simple, shallow (?) terms.
Other times its about managing anxiety and not feeling comfortable with the mic and camera.
What I heard from Caleb and Andy was two young leaders very engaged in the development of the team and game day tactics. They are clearly empowered to speak frankly and openly . JL models this himself.
I took Andy at his word when he said he was happy to step back for Switta, which doesnt negate him feeling hes at his best on the inside.
As for the great move by JL this was a rehearsed play which the team understood and had prepared for.
Similarly bringing Pearce into attack was a prepared option, which players had some control over, Ryan and Pearce deciding which of them would go forward.
It is also clear that the timing of the "W mode" was critical as it could not be sustained!I am very very impressed...I have seen the future!
Yokai!

 

[james haish]

Hardwick made finals in his 4th, 5th and 6th year before missing in his 7th (2016). However he played three finals in those years before 2016 and lost all 3 of them. In two of those games, his team was the higher team on the ladder (5th plays 8th). If we make finals this year, JL will have played the same amount of finals as Hardwick with one less year. Even if we don’t make finals this year, we’ve already won more finals under JL than Hardwick did in his first 7 years

My point was Hardwick was an outlier. Most coaches achieve consistency and success much earlier. McCrae won a premiership in his second year, Beveridge in his second year, Roos in his third year, Clarkson in his fourth, Simpson and Goodwin in their fifth (after making it much deeper in prior years than Longmuir has)

Why is Longmuir taking so long?

 

[CaseySibosadoHOF]

I agree Sonny won’t be dropped (Emmett far more likely). However, I am not as optimistic about Sonny embracing the occasion this week, why would it be more important to him than the last two weeks?

I hope to see some more Sonny brilliance but there is no denying the cliff is coming quickly. Sonny needs some decent breaks to have any chance of playing well in the second half of the year.

I'd want to know how much of it with Sonny is the hand, and whether it's a "you can play through it until it gets better" situation, a "you need rest for it to get better", or a "you need surgery to heal it". He got a hand injury in early 2022, and that hampered his performances then as well.

There's no doubt that a big part of it is him physically being past it. But there's way too many fumbles for someone with usually clean hands and moments of unskilled play for someone usually extremely skilled. And in those moments, I find the physical drop off to be an unsatisfactory explanation.

 

[The Lobbster]

My point was Hardwick was an outlier. Most coaches achieve consistency and success much earlier. McCrae won a premiership in his second year, Beveridge in his second year, Roos in his third year, Clarkson in his fourth, Simpson and Goodwin in their fifth (after making it much deeper in prior years than Longmuir has)

Why is Longmuir taking so long?

Age, experience, losing players every year, us not committing to a full rebuild properly, any number of other factors.

I’m not trying to argue JL is perfect. Who knows where he really sits but coaching doesn’t happen in a vacuum. Some legendary coaches may have been blessed with stacked teams. Other “failure” coaches may have been a victim of lack of talent.

For me, I don’t see any actually gettable alternatives coaches that would improve the team. As such, every time we lose a game, screaming “sack the coach” just doesn’t seem very useful to me

 

[WilloTree]

My point was Hardwick was an outlier. Most coaches achieve consistency and success much earlier. McCrae won a premiership in his second year, Beveridge in his second year, Roos in his third year, Clarkson in his fourth, Simpson and Goodwin in their fifth (after making it much deeper in prior years than Longmuir has)

Why is Longmuir taking so long?

From a membership POV, sacking Longmuir now and re-starting the rebuild would be an unmitigated disaster.

The club won't do it.

 

[blue shark]

Age, experience, losing players every year, us not committing to a full rebuild properly, any number of other factors.

I’m not trying to argue JL is perfect. Who knows where he really sits but coaching doesn’t happen in a vacuum. Some legendary coaches may have been blessed with stacked teams. Other “failure” coaches may have been a victim of lack of talent.

For me, I don’t see any actually gettable alternatives coaches that would improve the team. As such, every time we lose a game, screaming “sack the coach” just doesn’t seem very useful to me

JLo’s team off the field is a Freo issue.
Always has been an issue. We lack diversity, experience, and quality to create the best system in the AFL.
There is a reason why WC has won 2 flags since we joined, and it’s got nothing to do with just drafts and trades.
Yes they are crucial, but so is development and a gameplan that is one step ahead.
Not one of our assistants will ever be a senior coach IMO. Doesn’t mean they are
useless, more P Sumich types.
Other clubs have done the succession route, and inhouse, closest we have been
was with Harvey.
So it’s JLo or as you say or start again.
As for alternatives I’d take Cox or Carr in any capacity, or throw the kitchen sink at
C Scott in a few years.
List is tracking well, but I don’t see a premiership without fixing the flaws.
Until we emulate the Cats, Swans or surround the coach like the Tigers we will always be just a flash in the pan.

 

[Dockeroo]

Let’s look forward to what is probably a realistic outcome in 2024. We finish 10th.
We beat a few of the teams around/beneath us like Richmond, west coast, suns etc.
we miss out on finals by maybe one game.
We fail to beat any contenders like Sydney, GWS, Carlton, pies.

What does the board do at the end of the year. Extend JL? Wait till next year? He’s out of contract end of 2025.

I don’t have the answers but it’s going to be an interesting off season if they don’t sign him long term. The extension he got a couple of months ago will already be up for renewal/decision again in about 12 weeks time. Have the board seen enough to extend him long term?

 

[Spirit Level]

The constant overuse has to stop, it's ****ing hard to watch.

First 2 centre clearances in the 3rd quarter, we should've taken long kicks into the fwd line from the centre but over used it. They got the first 2 goals then had the momentum that we couldn't get back.

 

[mattis117]

Let’s look forward to what is probably a realistic outcome in 2024. We finish 10th.
We beat a few of the teams around/beneath us like Richmond, west coast, suns etc.
we miss out on finals by maybe one game.
We fail to beat any contenders like Sydney, GWS, Carlton, pies.

What does the board do at the end of the year. Extend JL? Wait till next year? He’s out of contract end of 2025.

I don’t have the answers but it’s going to be an interesting off season if they don’t sign him long term. The extension he got a couple of months ago will already be up for renewal/decision again in about 12 weeks time. Have the board seen enough to extend him long term?

Pointless speculation. How about just waiting to see what happens first?

I seriously believe there are a few posters in here that want Freo to fail this year just to say, see I knew JL wasn't good enough.

We're 1.5 games off second on the ladder! Get a grip.

I think we'll defeat both Melbourne and Geelong and make finals.

 

[Raz]

watching a number of other teams the use of handball is increasing in many teams. it looks like it is the future of AFL for the coming years.

 

[Dockeroo]

Pointless speculation. How about just waiting to see what happens first?

I seriously believe there are a few posters in here that want Freo to fail this year just to say, see I knew JL wasn't good enough.

We're 1.5 games off second on the ladder! Get a grip.

I think we'll defeat both Melbourne and Geelong and make finals.

“Pointless speculation”
Isn’t that the main reason Big footy was invented?

 

[lint]

watching a number of other teams the use of handball is increasing in many teams. it looks like it is the future of AFL for the coming years.

It only works against the lessor teams who don't bring significant pressure.

Against the top teams, who properly pressure the ball carrier, you're inviting turnovers with over-use of the handball.

You can see it pretty clearly in our results this year. Was good to hear J-Lo admit after the game they need to kick it to the forwards, trust them, and give them a more of a chance. Personally I think a major contributory factor is the fact half our team don't want to kick it due to a lack of confidence in their individual footskills and decision making.

 

[james haish]

watching a number of other teams the use of handball is increasing in many teams. it looks like it is the future of AFL for the coming years.

IMO our high handball game will be a potent weapon in around 18 months as the team uses it to draw in the opposition midfield and create overlap run. We just need more physical maturity in the middle.

My main issue is one of team selection and the dysfunction of the connection between the middle and forward line, as well as lack of true forward craft.

 

[Raz]

It only works against the lessor teams who don't bring significant pressure.

Against the top teams, who properly pressure the ball carrier, you're inviting turnovers with over-use of the handball.

You can see it pretty clearly in our results this year. Was good to hear J-Lo admit after the game they need to kick it to the forwards, trust them, and give them a more of a chance. Personally I think a major contributory factor is the fact half our team don't want to kick it due to a lack of confidence in their individual footskills and decision making.

I think as with Gerald NEesham who brought in a whole new style of footy that was laughed at when he used it. The biggest issue is not the STYLE it is the Ability of the Players to implement it

Handballs quick and fast through the middle when the opposition are pressing is great if your handballs hit a target. not to the ground, not to the opposition. not to a pack of players.

Bombing it long in hope by kicking is something juniors are taught to do as junior coaches. and it is rubbish. Possession football is the key to winning games. Keep the ball off the opposition and you will win more games than you lose.

But you need to hit targets, by hand and by foot. Possession football is exciting when it is played well. Especially against "Pressure" sides who will get frustrated when the ball is moved around their better players.

 

[Dockeroo]

I think as with Gerald NEesham who brought in a whole new style of footy that was laughed at when he used it. The biggest issue is not the STYLE it is the Ability of the Players to implement it

Handballs quick and fast through the middle when the opposition are pressing is great if your handballs hit a target. not to the ground, not to the opposition. not to a pack of players.

Bombing it long in hope by kicking is something juniors are taught to do as junior coaches. and it is rubbish. Possession football is the key to winning games. Keep the ball off the opposition and you will win more games than you lose.

But you need to hit targets, by hand and by foot. Possession football is exciting when it is played well. Especially against "Pressure" sides who will get frustrated when the ball is moved around their better players.

That’s well and good if we had 6 Caleb Serongs in the middle of the park that never fumble.
But we don’t. And we won’t.

 

[Raz]

That’s well and good if we had 6 Caleb Serongs in the middle of the park that never fumble.
But we don’t. And we won’t.

Sadly Serong fumbles too.

But going back to BOMBING the ball to a pack of players just plays into the hands of key defenders. We will never win a premiership being that kind of team.

We need to improve our skills . work better as a team. and we will win more games. even with the players we have now.

 

[raffrox]

My point was Hardwick was an outlier. Most coaches achieve consistency and success much earlier. McCrae won a premiership in his second year, Beveridge in his second year, Roos in his third year, Clarkson in his fourth, Simpson and Goodwin in their fifth (after making it much deeper in prior years than Longmuir has)

Why is Longmuir taking so long?

For starters the club let Ross run us into the ground before JLo got here. Our culture was shot and the internal review showed this.

Goodwin for example had the benefit of the Roos rebuild and got a list and team culture on a platter. The jury is out on Goodwin to be honest.

Look at the Nuggets in the NBA last year. Kept the faith and they got their title as a small market team. We can't afford to make massive changes and do stupid things because we are impatient hoping that we'll have Darcy Moore and two Dacios brothers or a series of UFA's walking through the door wallpaping over the cracks.

Sacking JLo now would he be destabilising and deadset stupid. Have you noticed how many Freo players have re-signed long term?

 

[Raz]

PErsonally i dont see the issue as a Coach problem. It is still and has been for life of the CLUB the players. They are very young. need more time. Sadly after getting the time. they get better offers in other clubs so we have to recruit. rebuild retrain again

It is a vicious circle for 30 yrs. we can just hope our current group stays together long enough to gain the skills they need. learn the game plan and then bond with ech other as a team. WE will win premierships when that happens.

IF we lose any of our youngsters in the next 3-5 yrs we will still be a struggling mid range club.

 

[Joao]

PErsonally i dont see the issue as a Coach problem. It is still and has been for life of the CLUB the players. They are very young. need more time. Sadly after getting the time. they get better offers in other clubs so we have to recruit. rebuild retrain again

It is a vicious circle for 30 yrs. we can just hope our current group stays together long enough to gain the skills they need. learn the game plan and then bond with ech other as a team. WE will win premierships when that happens.

IF we lose any of our youngsters in the next 3-5 yrs we will still be a struggling mid range club.

We've broken the cycle now I think. Just need to give a few of them 15-40 more games and we're cooking.

 

[fnerd]

Personally I think a major contributory factor is the fact half our team don't want to kick it due to a lack of confidence in their individual footskills and decision making.

This is without a doubt the single biggest factor

In which case if jlo truly is against our constant over handballing (it’s still clearly a game plan instruction to some degree considering he always Brings it up as some sort of flex whenever discussing our attacking intent), then it’s up to him to empower his players to overcome this

 

[lint]

Sadly Serong fumbles too.

But going back to BOMBING the ball to a pack of players just plays into the hands of key defenders. We will never win a premiership being that kind of team.

We need to improve our skills . work better as a team. and we will win more games. even with the players we have now.

Yeah, it's not a binary though.

It's not bomb it long OR handball heavy. There's lowering the eyes, there's kicking to advantage, there is biting off the short diagonal kick into the corridor, there is switching to the fat side, there is kicking to space or down the line for territory and a reset. Empowering your players to make decisions and take responsibility. Handball to advantage is one thing, but we have definitely erred on players handballing under pressure to avoid taking on the kick we needed this season. The issue with over handball is it's not to advantage, you can end up kicking under pressure with a dump kick, which is no better than a long bomb.

It's about getting the balance right. We have the highest handball to kick ratio in the comp (hint: it's often to a player under the same or more pressure). We don't have the ratio right at the moment, and J-lo admitted that after the game on Friday.

I think a good tell re: our team footskills is Schultz. He looks not on the same level of the rest of the Collingwood team when it comes to footskills, yet at freo he was average to fine. To me Young, Clarke, Ryan and Chapman are our standouts, and until we get better kicks in the side, handball and pressure seems to be what we are banking on to win.

It doesn't cut it against the top teams. I don't think a ruck and midfield of Darcy, Fyfe, Brayshaw, Serong, Johnson have the footskills to consistently kick to a forwards advantage. I think it may be time to free up Young to play a more attacking role, and swing Brayshaw or Johnson into the defensive mid role. And I'm starting to think if Fyfe can't kick, he might be cooked.