Coach Justin Longmuir

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blue shark said:
Genuine AFL names, the club is a minnow in the eyes of the football world.
Lions were a joke until Mathew’s hard nosed approach.
Malthouse at the eagles.
Blight at the crows, all at their second club.
We have no one with that experience. Even a mentor role would be welcome
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Buckley as a true mentor role? Move over and be part of the club not just a look in here and there
 
Johnny Dalmas said:
I do mate. I might miss 1 or 2 home games season. And let me tell you we have been an uninspired rabble out there most games this year.

There are many games when we look devoid of structure forward of the ball. Games where we attempt the same method of transitioning the ball from backs to forwards even thought it is obvious that the oppo are setting up behind the ball for exactly how/where we intend to move it.

Many games where our midfield group fail to set up to defend the stoppage time and time again as the oppo midfield waltzes out of the centre ...

... then to see the same players line up in the middle again because the coaches refuse to apply any form of accountability or consequence on the players mid-game when they don't defend.

I have seen many games where we have been physically monstered in the middle and the coaching response has been to go smaller and younger by using guys like Switta and Aish, or Erasmus and Johnson as their plan B.

Our talented but young team need all the help they can get from the coaches to bridge the gap between us and harder, stronger, more experienced teams.

At the moment the coaches are letting the players down.

As a club we worked hard over many years to set ourselves up for success. And the footy department as a whole seems intent on self sabotage.
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Talented team needs all the help it can get to bridge the gap to bigger and more experiences players... Hmm, maybe they just need the time to become big experienced players.

It's an out there theory I know, and I'm definitely out of place here not dumping on JL like this thread is clearly for, but yeah, could just be young fellas needing time.
 
mattis117 said:
Talented team needs all the help it can get to bridge the gap to bigger and more experiences players... Hmm, maybe they just need the time to become big experienced players.

It's an out there theory I know, and I'm definitely out of place here not dumping on JL like this thread is clearly for, but yeah, could just be young fellas needing time.
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Brayshaw has been playing inside mid for almost 5 years. Serong 4. Are you sure time is the answer. Don't we need a contingency plan.
 

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apuchar said:
Brayshaw has been playing inside mid for almost 5 years. Serong 4. Are you sure time is the answer. Don't we need a contingency plan.
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We need to get to the point where Brayshaw isn't playing inside mid because we've got Johnson and Ras doing that.
 
mattis117 said:
Talented team needs all the help it can get to bridge the gap to bigger and more experiences players... Hmm, maybe they just need the time to become big experienced players.

It's an out there theory I know, and I'm definitely out of place here not dumping on JL like this thread is clearly for, but yeah, could just be young fellas needing time.
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This thread? Go back to the start and get some perspective.

At the start of the season where did you have us finishing? Honestly? I was laughed at here as I said we would finish as low as 12th.

Do you think we have underachieved this season?

If so, then people should be held accountable, and there are ideas being presented, even in the last few pages that do not include sacking him. That is no where near dumping on the guy.
 
poshman said:
This thread? Go back to the start and get some perspective.

At the start of the season where did you have us finishing? Honestly? I was laughed at here as I said we would finish as low as 12th.

Do you think we have underachieved this season?

If so, then people should be held accountable, and there are ideas being presented, even in the last few pages that do not include sacking him. That is no where near dumping on the guy.
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I think I've obviously overrated the team on paper as to where we are at but we still should be winning around half our games, getting knocked off by North at home and thrashed by Cartlon is just totally unacceptable.
 
poshman said:
This thread? Go back to the start and get some perspective.

At the start of the season where did you have us finishing? Honestly? I was laughed at here as I said we would finish as low as 12th.

Do you think we have underachieved this season?

If so, then people should be held accountable, and there are ideas being presented, even in the last few pages that do not include sacking him. That is no where near dumping on the guy.
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Hindsight is dumb sight. There's no right and wrong and it's pathetic if anyone thinks they were 'right' if they predicted we'd finish low and we did. It's probability, sometimes things go right and sometimes they go wrong. There is no value in someone saying they were right about their prediction. What we need to do is understand what happened and why. Are there genuine and identifiable reasons that the result didn't meet expectations? Yes.

1. We underestimated the impact of the departures. We also didn't take notice that our list got younger till it was evident on game day.
2. We assumed we'd get decent seasons from Fyfe and Taberner.
3. We assumed progress was linear and we'd at least match last season.
4. Our fixture was much kinder to us last year, we got teams on their bad weeks. This season it's like we've run into every team at their best.
5. We underestimated the loss of Josh Carr (maybe).
6. Pearce wasn't the right call on captain.
7. Players unexpectedly lost form, Brodie, O'Driscoll for example, and we lost Chapman for basically the whole year.

I would be all on the dump JLO bandwagon if we had a premiership list profile, but we do not. We have tonnes of talent, but not a premiership list. Yet.

Impatient people make mistakes. Trying to force things to happen often has the opposite effect to what was intended.

JLO gets another year and the calls to dump him now is nothing more than venting, in my opinion.
 
WilloTree said:
JL has been very clear on this. Please listen to his pressers. If you wander down to training you will see this is what we work on the most.

The same? What the actual *? You must be new around here.

Neale, Weller, Langdon, Hill, Acres, Brayshaw, Fyfe, NOD, Hughes, Serong, Aish, O'Meara, Jackson, Darcy, Walters, Meek, Tucker, Johnson, Erasmus, Blakely, Mundy, Jackson.

.. yeah - it's the same people again.

You just couldn't be more wrong if you tried.


You just outlined three problems with the list and then wrote "the coaches"

I hope you can see where you went wrong.

I can.

We all can.

It's painful that I keep having to point this out.
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Wow! It's like you have mis-read or mis-represented everything I said in those couple of posts.

Surely that can't all be by accident ... I smell some bad faith.

I'll finish with this for you... just thinking that our team is young but on the right track and everything will simply get better with a few more preasons and a bit more experience ...

Well that is Gold Coast Sun's thinking.
 
mattis117 said:
Hindsight is dumb sight. There's no right and wrong and it's pathetic if anyone thinks they were 'right' if they predicted we'd finish low and we did. It's probability, sometimes things go right and sometimes they go wrong. There is no value in someone saying they were right about their prediction. What we need to do is understand what happened and why. Are there genuine and identifiable reasons that the result didn't meet expectations? Yes.

1. We underestimated the impact of the departures. We also didn't take notice that our list got younger till it was evident on game day.
2. We assumed we'd get decent seasons from Fyfe and Taberner.
3. We assumed progress was linear and we'd at least match last season.
4. Our fixture was much kinder to us last year, we got teams on their bad weeks. This season it's like we've run into every team at their best.
5. We underestimated the loss of Josh Carr (maybe).
6. Pearce wasn't the right call on captain.
7. Players unexpectedly lost form, Brodie, O'Driscoll for example, and we lost Chapman for basically the whole year.

I would be all on the dump JLO bandwagon if we had a premiership list profile, but we do not. We have tonnes of talent, but not a premiership list. Yet.

Impatient people make mistakes. Trying to force things to happen often has the opposite effect to what was intended.

JLO gets another year and the calls to dump him now is nothing more than venting, in my opinion.
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There is no value in someone saying they were right about their prediction.
Lotto numbers?
 

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Everyone is right and everyone is wrong IMO. The list is not perfect but the core is there. Jackson, Brayshaw, Serong, Amiss, Cox (made the squad last year so it’s there), Darcy, Ryan and Young are AA calibre players. We also have the first Brownlow medallist wingman in 20 years coming through. There is a dearth of strength in the middle and class up front which needs addressing with only two genuine natural goal kickers in Amiss and Walters with Walters on his last legs. That’s an issue

The list needs games but I’m sorry, it’s not a bottom 4 list (even at it’s general age) and trying to wipe away all our issues this year on age is dumb. The guys are completely unable to transition from defense to a score, generally confused, not playing on instinct and severely underperforming not through lack of work ethic from what I can tell but lack of cohesion. These things and whatever the **** is happening in the first quarters are coaching issues.

I don’t think JL is a dud but I’d be ok pushing him out for a Hardwick level pick-up. They have clearly missed Carr a shit load and he’s a big loss. I’m ok giving a preseason to fix things but at the minimum, winning a final next year is required and we’d want to be in a damn strong position at the bye next year
 
mattis117 said:
Hindsight is dumb sight. There's no right and wrong and it's pathetic if anyone thinks they were 'right' if they predicted we'd finish low and we did. It's probability, sometimes things go right and sometimes they go wrong. There is no value in someone saying they were right about their prediction. What we need to do is understand what happened and why. Are there genuine and identifiable reasons that the result didn't meet expectations? Yes.

1. We underestimated the impact of the departures. We also didn't take notice that our list got younger till it was evident on game day.
2. We assumed we'd get decent seasons from Fyfe and Taberner.
3. We assumed progress was linear and we'd at least match last season.
4. Our fixture was much kinder to us last year, we got teams on their bad weeks. This season it's like we've run into every team at their best.
5. We underestimated the loss of Josh Carr (maybe).
6. Pearce wasn't the right call on captain.
7. Players unexpectedly lost form, Brodie, O'Driscoll for example, and we lost Chapman for basically the whole year.

I would be all on the dump JLO bandwagon if we had a premiership list profile, but we do not. We have tonnes of talent, but not a premiership list. Yet.

Impatient people make mistakes. Trying to force things to happen often has the opposite effect to what was intended.

JLO gets another year and the calls to dump him now is nothing more than venting, in my opinion.
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I agree with most of this, but I'm not sure calls to dump him are just venting.

As you've alluded to, our age profile and the probable availability of our experienced players means its pretty hard to set fair expectation next year.

If JLos out of contract end of 24, there's a probability if we don't start the year well it could turn into a write off pretty quickly? There's got to be a judgement internally whether he's the right person to take the group forward.
 
mattis117 said:
Hindsight is dumb sight. There's no right and wrong and it's pathetic if anyone thinks they were 'right' if they predicted we'd finish low and we did. It's probability, sometimes things go right and sometimes they go wrong. There is no value in someone saying they were right about their prediction. What we need to do is understand what happened and why. Are there genuine and identifiable reasons that the result didn't meet expectations? Yes.

1. We underestimated the impact of the departures. We also didn't take notice that our list got younger till it was evident on game day.
2. We assumed we'd get decent seasons from Fyfe and Taberner.
3. We assumed progress was linear and we'd at least match last season.
4. Our fixture was much kinder to us last year, we got teams on their bad weeks. This season it's like we've run into every team at their best.
5. We underestimated the loss of Josh Carr (maybe).
6. Pearce wasn't the right call on captain.
7. Players unexpectedly lost form, Brodie, O'Driscoll for example, and we lost Chapman for basically the whole year.

I would be all on the dump JLO bandwagon if we had a premiership list profile, but we do not. We have tonnes of talent, but not a premiership list. Yet.

Impatient people make mistakes. Trying to force things to happen often has the opposite effect to what was intended.

JLO gets another year and the calls to dump him now is nothing more than venting, in my opinion.
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I like your points 1-7 and agree that JLo should have our FULL support for another year. That doesn't mean we don't make negative observations and ask tough questions WRT his future as coach. But it is bizarre that we can be so happy with him in 2022 and pissed off in 2023 - he's the same guy. There are many reasons for our sh*t season. Let's hope we don't have much of a list turnover and our boys can make full use of another year's development and an easier draw in 2024. If they can't deliver then yes, time for a new coach. On the other hand I don't think we can give Pearce another year as captain. I don't think he's got enough fire and his on-field performance and presence have deteriorated in 2023.
 
mattis117 said:
Hindsight is dumb sight. There's no right and wrong and it's pathetic if anyone thinks they were 'right' if they predicted we'd finish low and we did. It's probability, sometimes things go right and sometimes they go wrong. There is no value in someone saying they were right about their prediction. What we need to do is understand what happened and why. Are there genuine and identifiable reasons that the result didn't meet expectations? Yes.

1. We underestimated the impact of the departures. We also didn't take notice that our list got younger till it was evident on game day.
2. We assumed we'd get decent seasons from Fyfe and Taberner.
3. We assumed progress was linear and we'd at least match last season.
4. Our fixture was much kinder to us last year, we got teams on their bad weeks. This season it's like we've run into every team at their best.
5. We underestimated the loss of Josh Carr (maybe).
6. Pearce wasn't the right call on captain.
7. Players unexpectedly lost form, Brodie, O'Driscoll for example, and we lost Chapman for basically the whole year.

I would be all on the dump JLO bandwagon if we had a premiership list profile, but we do not. We have tonnes of talent, but not a premiership list. Yet.

Impatient people make mistakes. Trying to force things to happen often has the opposite effect to what was intended.

JLO gets another year and the calls to dump him now is nothing more than venting, in my opinion.
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So you think a coach that sees Hughes as a wingman at the start of the year has geat football nous? No need to say anymore
 
Snuffaluphagus said:
Everyone is right and everyone is wrong IMO. The list is not perfect but the core is there. Jackson, Brayshaw, Serong, Amiss, Cox (made the squad last year so it’s there), Darcy, Ryan and Young are AA calibre players. We also have the first Brownlow medallist wingman in 20 years coming through. There is a dearth of strength in the middle and class up front which needs addressing with only two genuine natural goal kickers in Amiss and Walters with Walters on his last legs. That’s an issue

The list needs games but I’m sorry, it’s not a bottom 4 list (even at it’s general age) and trying to wipe away all our issues this year on age is dumb. The guys are completely unable to transition from defense to a score, generally confused, not playing on instinct and severely underperforming not through lack of work ethic from what I can tell but lack of cohesion. These things and whatever the * is happening in the first quarters are coaching issues.

I don’t think JL is a dud but I’d be ok pushing him out for a Hardwick level pick-up. They have clearly missed Carr a s**t load and he’s a big loss. I’m ok giving a preseason to fix things but at the minimum, winning a final next year is required and we’d want to be in a damn strong position at the bye next year
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You're right though Snuff, all things being equal we're not a bottom 4 list. Unfortunately, things are horrendously unequal. We take part in the most compromised competition in the world (AFAIK). Geography and fixture have a massive impact.

I look forward to having the fixture of a bottom 4 team next year.
 
mattis117 said:
Cmon, please don't come at me with hypotheticals. They tried it, it failed, they moved on.
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Ok another example brings on kids with pace like Worner and Stanley when games are shot but leaves a plodder like Hughes on to play 4 quarters
Hughes has no pace, poor kicking skills and lost most of his one on one contests on Saturday night
 
ROGS said:
Ok another example brings on kids with pace like Worner and Stanley when games are shot but leaves a plodder like Hughes on to play 4 quarters
Hughes has no pace, poor kicking skills and lost most of his one on one contests on Saturday night
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Hughes is ranked top 10 in one on one contests, conceding only 13% before this game. You can criticize his rebound and decision making, but his contested work is pretty good. He’s the best defender one on one at Fremantle statistically.
 
ROGS said:
So you think a coach that sees Hughes as a wingman at the start of the year has geat football nous? No need to say anymore
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This is a very valid critciism and speaks to the conservatism of JLo that many of us find frustrating.

He obviously recognised the defensive work Acres did and tried to replace that like-for-like, but even without the benefit of hindsight most of us could have predicted that Hughes would be a poor wingman and was not suited for that position in the modern attacking game.

I would have much preferred JLo be more adventurous and pivot to a more attacking set up by using a different option from the list.

ROGS said:
Ok another example brings on kids with pace like Worner and Stanley when games are shot but leaves a plodder like Hughes on to play 4 quarters
Hughes has no pace, poor kicking skills and lost most of his one on one contests on Saturday night
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But this just comes across as blinkered Hughes hate. He's a perfectly acceptable depth replacement in the backline. Worner and especially Stanley were brought in to play as wingers, not as subs to play the same role as Hughes.
 
poshman said:
This thread? Go back to the start and get some perspective.

At the start of the season where did you have us finishing? Honestly? I was laughed at here as I said we would finish as low as 12th.

Do you think we have underachieved this season?

If so, then people should be held accountable, and there are ideas being presented, even in the last few pages that do not include sacking him. That is no where near dumping on the guy.
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Actually think the list achieved its purpose.
It’s a rebuilding list disguised by management as being top 4.
Let’s not kid ourselves.

Amiss, Jackson, Treacy as our forward line- not even 100 games between them in their careers.

Erasmus and Johnson have come in. Effectively on one pre season. Replacing Mundy, Fyfe and Brodie.

Henry on the wing. NOD has had a poor pre season and season of development.

Defence has no depth. No flexibility. No Chapman and no Walker means it’s up to Wagner and Hughes. Not going to be positive going forward.

No ruck depth. Darcy goes down. Jackson is ruck with Treacy. Reidy isn’t ready.

So yes the list actually achieved its job as a rebuilding team.
 
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