Traded Jye Caldwell [traded with #44 and #74 to Essendon for #29 and 2021 R2]

[Heaps of fun]

Gee, the future is bright at North with those two stars coming through

Yeah, they looked ok. Got a lot of work to do.

 

[Heaps of fun]

I just think you are wrong by your implication that The Saints have mortgaged their future by topping up and/or that this year's semi final is the ceiling for thIs group.

Yeah, you seem like a nuffy though.

 

[Elmer_Hauser]

Yeah, you seem like a nuffy though.

 

[diddley1984]

I think your biggest issue is that you topped up just to get to a semi. Two years out of drafts for a bunch of role players is going to come back and bite you hard.

I think you are looking at it the wrong way. We may have dumped a few draft picks, but even the players we got were youthful (with the exception of Ryder) so they were more like drafting mature aged picks.
In the past, we have seen teams offload picks to grab players to keep the premiership window open, this has been the opposite of that. In fact, the trades made will only help open the window.
Last year the talk was about us having holes in all parts of our list, now it is just about upgrading the mids and refining other areas. No different to any other top 8 list. And we are still young with more natural progression to come.
Caldwell fits in perfectly with all of this. Youthful and a mid.

 

[Giant Pete]

Yeah right.

We had the least experienced 22 of any of the sides in the top 10 or 11 teams in the comp.

We hit the draft hard for 3 years prior to last year's trade period.

Think we times that pretty well actually and we have plenty of good youth coming through.

Clearly we aren't finished with the list yet but we are at least headed in the right track.

4 best 22 players will walk back into that side as well.

Out of curiosity, what was the avg age of your 22 last week when you were closest to full strength?

 

[Stan_Darsh72]

Out of curiosity, what was the avg age of your 22 last week when you were closest to full strength?

25 years and 7 months old average.

 

[Ducky Tie]

This was posted a few weeks ago by Ron The Bear

Average age of the 22 selected over the year. Shows how young the Saints team has been.

Geel 27.14**
Haw 26.90**
W.C. 26.40
P.A. 26.22**
Coll 26.13**
Carl 26.02*
GWS 25.91*
Rich 25.83*
N.M. 25.77
Melb 25.36*
Bris 25.33*
Ess 25.19*
Adel 25.07*
Frem 24.92**
W.B. 24.91**
St.K 24.88
Syd 24.40**
G.C. 24.00**

 

[Ron The Bear]

This was posted a few weeks ago by Ron The Bear

Average age of the 22 selected over the year. Shows how young the Saints team has been.
...

Final H&A numbers

Club	Avg Age	Avg Age - Avg of other 17 clubs	Avg Age Diff on Matchday	Avg Gms	Gms Rank
Geel	27.20	+1.72	+1.69	130.3	1st
Haw	26.90	+1.39	+1.27	122.9	2nd
W.C.	26.40	+0.87	+0.99	116.8	3rd
P.A.	26.23	+0.68	+0.64	113.6	4th
Coll	26.15	+0.60	+0.62	100.4	7th
Carl	26.02	+0.47	+0.37	106.5	5th
GWS	25.91	+0.34	+0.23	103.4	6th
Rich	25.83	+0.26	+0.34	98.0	8th
N.M.	25.77	+0.20	+0.12	94.1	10th
Melb	25.36	-0.23	-0.40	88.2	11th
Bris	25.33	-0.26	-0.20	95.9	9th
Ess	25.19	-0.42	-0.27	80.4	15th
Adel	25.07	-0.55	-0.53	82.3	12th
W.B.	24.93	-0.70	-0.68	82.1	13th
Frem	24.91	-0.71	-0.59	81.0	14th
St.K	24.88	-0.75	-0.60	79.3	16th
Syd	24.41	-1.24	-1.31	76.1	17th
G.C.	24.01	-1.67	-1.68	70.7	18th

Finals

26.36 P.A. -2.02
28.38 Geel +2.02

26.00 Bris -0.79
26.79 Rich +0.79

25.56 St.K +0.34
25.22 W.B. -0.34

26.64 W.C. -0.15
26.79 Coll +0.15

27.08 Rich +1.86
25.22 St.K -1.86

28.28 Geel +1.47
26.81 Coll -1.47

On average the older team wins X% of games where X = 49.68 + (7.85 x age difference in years). (No, it doesn't show a profit at level stakes.)

When St.Kilda beat Richmond in Round 4 the difference was -2.16, Hardwick's biggest losing age difference. Richmond has won 30 of 32 games under Hardwick at +1.00 or better.

 

[Giant Pete]

Final H&A numbers

Club	Avg Age	Avg Age - Avg of other 17 clubs	Avg Age Diff on Matchday
Geel	27.20	+1.72	+1.69
Haw	26.90	+1.39	+1.27
W.C.	26.40	+0.87	+0.990
P.A.	26.23	+0.68	+0.64
Coll	26.15	+0.60	+0.62
Carl	26.02	+0.47	+0.37
GWS	25.91	+0.34	+0.23
Rich	25.83	+0.26	+0.34
N.M.	25.77	+0.20	+0.12
Melb	25.36	-0.23	-0.40
Bris	25.33	-0.26	-0.20
Ess	25.19	-0.42	-0.27
Adel	25.07	-0.55	-0.53
W.B.	24.93	-0.70	-0.68
Frem	24.91	-0.71	-0.59
St.K	24.88	-0.75	-0.60
Syd	24.41	-1.24	-1.31
G.C.	24.01	-1.67	-1.68

Finals

26.36 P.A. -2.02
28.38 Geel +2.02

26.00 Bris -0.79
26.79 Rich +0.79

25.56 St.K +0.34
25.22 W.B. -0.34

26.64 W.C. -0.15
26.79 Coll +0.15

27.08 Rich +1.86
25.22 St.K -1.86

28.28 Geel +1.47
26.81 Coll -1.47

On average the older team wins X% of games where X = 49.68 + (7.85 x age difference in years). (No, it doesn't show a profit at level stakes.)

When St.Kilda beat Richmond in Round 4 the difference was -2.16, Hardwick's biggest losing age difference. Richmond has won 30 of 32 games under Hardwick at +1.00 or better.

Be interesting to see ours next year minus mummy and shaw.

 

[Ron The Bear]

Be interesting to see ours next year minus mummy and shaw.

This is the first year GWS has been behind the clock.

Year	Avg Age	Age Rank	Ladder	Diff
2012	21.91	18th	18th	-
2013	21.64	18th	18th	-
2014	22.36	18th	16th	+2
2015	23.24	18th	11th	+7
2016	24.84	11th	4th	+7
2017	25.08	10th	4th	+6
2018	25.21	10th	6th	+4
2019	25.59	7th	2nd	+5
2020	25.91	7th	10th	-3

Nothing really to worry about at this stage, window well and truly open. (Thought Mumford was playing on?)

 

[Great8]

Why? the hell, would this kid contemplate Essendon fc, as a destination. Surely he goes to the Saints or stays at GWS.

Agree we are a rabble but believe it or not for various reasons some players will still want to come to us.

 

[CarnTheSAINTERS]

Agree we are a rabble but believe it or not for various reasons some players will still want to come to us.

Like Shiel when he though you were a premiership chance?

 

[Longmembrey]

I think your biggest issue is that you topped up just to get to a semi. Two years out of drafts for a bunch of role players is going to come back and bite you hard.

Two years? The only 1st rounder we have traded recently was last year and it enabled us to bring in Hill, Jones, Ryder, Howard, Butler. All of whom are young enough (except Ryder)

 

[Longmembrey]

Has nothing to do with North Melbourne. I don't think it'll prove successful for the Saints though.

We've won 1 flag in over 100 years. We are a 99% chance to fail anyway. May as well go all in and have a crack rather than just accepting our usual mediocrity.

 

[Ceanag]

Agree we are a rabble but believe it or not for various reasons some players will still want to come to us.

That's true,for a lot of footy players it is a short lived job in their overall working career ... a few hundred K and a reasonable contract will find you quite a few players.

 

[Great8]

Like Shiel when he though you were a premiership chance?

I think Shiel came for the interests outside of football. Has set himself up very nicely.
People go to rubbish clubs for all manor of reasons.

 

[Falchoon]

Howard should be taking the third best fwd, so there's Carlisle and who else? Aiden Corr would slot straight in here. I don't see who Caldwell tips out of the midfield.

??? our midfield is below average and short 1 or 2 in the rotations.

Rotation at the moment is Steele/Jones/Gresham/Ross/Hannebery. That's it. 1 A grader in Steele, Jones a solid B grader, the rest lucky to be C graders.

Backline of Howard/Carlisle/Wilkie/Coffield/Paton/Long coming along nicely - hopefully Hunter Clark graduates to the midfield. Carlisle the only one of those over the age of 24.

 

[Benaly28]

Lots of hype around him.Would suit anyone but wants midfield time.Saints/Bombers.


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[LuckyBounce!]

Final H&A numbers

Club	Avg Age	Avg Age - Avg of other 17 clubs	Avg Age Diff on Matchday	Avg Gms	Gms Rank
Geel	27.20	+1.72	+1.69	130.3	1st
Haw	26.90	+1.39	+1.27	122.9	2nd
W.C.	26.40	+0.87	+0.99	116.8	3rd
P.A.	26.23	+0.68	+0.64	113.6	4th
Coll	26.15	+0.60	+0.62	100.4	7th
Carl	26.02	+0.47	+0.37	106.5	5th
GWS	25.91	+0.34	+0.23	103.4	6th
Rich	25.83	+0.26	+0.34	98.0	8th
N.M.	25.77	+0.20	+0.12	94.1	10th
Melb	25.36	-0.23	-0.40	88.2	11th
Bris	25.33	-0.26	-0.20	95.9	9th
Ess	25.19	-0.42	-0.27	80.4	15th
Adel	25.07	-0.55	-0.53	82.3	12th
W.B.	24.93	-0.70	-0.68	82.1	13th
Frem	24.91	-0.71	-0.59	81.0	14th
St.K	24.88	-0.75	-0.60	79.3	16th
Syd	24.41	-1.24	-1.31	76.1	17th
G.C.	24.01	-1.67	-1.68	70.7	18th

Finals

26.36 P.A. -2.02
28.38 Geel +2.02

26.00 Bris -0.79
26.79 Rich +0.79

25.56 St.K +0.34
25.22 W.B. -0.34

26.64 W.C. -0.15
26.79 Coll +0.15

27.08 Rich +1.86
25.22 St.K -1.86

28.28 Geel +1.47
26.81 Coll -1.47

On average the older team wins X% of games where X = 49.68 + (7.85 x age difference in years). (No, it doesn't show a profit at level stakes.)

When St.Kilda beat Richmond in Round 4 the difference was -2.16, Hardwick's biggest losing age difference. Richmond has won 30 of 32 games under Hardwick at +1.00 or better.

So all of this constant talk about Carlton been a young inexperienced list as an excuse for being no good is just BS? They are the 6th oldest with the 5th most experience.
St. Kilda is the 3rd youngest and the 3rd least experienced so making a semi was a great effort. Geez even Richmond and Brisbane who have made preliminary finals this year are younger and have less experience than Carlton?

 

[Ron The Bear]

So all of this constant talk about Carlton been a young inexperienced list as an excuse for being no good is just BS? They are the 6th oldest with the 5th most experience.

It's an interesting subject. Carlton supporters are quick to point to outliers boosting the numbers like Simpson and Betts, which does have an influence. But I think they still depend heavily on the veterans - Curnow holds the midfield together, Murphy still contributes, Jones is a very decent but ageing tall defender, Casboult plugs holes at either end. Weitering and Walsh look like being top shelf but I'm not sure at this stage whether they've had enough recent draft "hits" to continue to progress to the top. Will be interesting to see their b&f results.

They also have a high number of players from other clubs (16) which carries its own risks, and are in the process of acquiring Williams and Saad. They seem readily able to sell the club to prospective recruits, but I'm not a fan of importing lots of senior players before a club/list has established its own culture/brand.

They're improving - probably slower than they would like - but the jury is well and truly out on whether they are cooking anything edible.

 

[JasRulz63]

Final H&A numbers

Club	Avg Age	Avg Age - Avg of other 17 clubs	Avg Age Diff on Matchday	Avg Gms	Gms Rank
Geel	27.20	+1.72	+1.69	130.3	1st
Haw	26.90	+1.39	+1.27	122.9	2nd
W.C.	26.40	+0.87	+0.99	116.8	3rd
P.A.	26.23	+0.68	+0.64	113.6	4th
Coll	26.15	+0.60	+0.62	100.4	7th
Carl	26.02	+0.47	+0.37	106.5	5th
GWS	25.91	+0.34	+0.23	103.4	6th
Rich	25.83	+0.26	+0.34	98.0	8th
N.M.	25.77	+0.20	+0.12	94.1	10th
Melb	25.36	-0.23	-0.40	88.2	11th
Bris	25.33	-0.26	-0.20	95.9	9th
Ess	25.19	-0.42	-0.27	80.4	15th
Adel	25.07	-0.55	-0.53	82.3	12th
W.B.	24.93	-0.70	-0.68	82.1	13th
Frem	24.91	-0.71	-0.59	81.0	14th
St.K	24.88	-0.75	-0.60	79.3	16th
Syd	24.41	-1.24	-1.31	76.1	17th
G.C.	24.01	-1.67	-1.68	70.7	18th

Finals

26.36 P.A. -2.02
28.38 Geel +2.02

26.00 Bris -0.79
26.79 Rich +0.79

25.56 St.K +0.34
25.22 W.B. -0.34

26.64 W.C. -0.15
26.79 Coll +0.15

27.08 Rich +1.86
25.22 St.K -1.86

28.28 Geel +1.47
26.81 Coll -1.47

On average the older team wins X% of games where X = 49.68 + (7.85 x age difference in years). (No, it doesn't show a profit at level stakes.)

When St.Kilda beat Richmond in Round 4 the difference was -2.16, Hardwick's biggest losing age difference. Richmond has won 30 of 32 games under Hardwick at +1.00 or better.

Interesting (and also makes sense), that there's not much variation between the age and games rank. Only variation greater than one rank are Collingwood (5th age, 7th games), Brisbane (11th age, 9th games) and Essendon (12th age, 15th games). I assume the Essendon one could be partly explained by the fact that four of their current players missed a whole season due to the supplements saga.

 

[Ron The Bear]

I assume the Essendon one could be partly explained by the fact that four of their current players missed a whole season due to the supplements saga.

That would be part of it. They have journeymen who skew the figures a little - McKernan 30yo/87, Phillips 29/46, Ambrose 29/87, Townsend 27/60, even Stewart 26/55. Their most experienced player, Zaharakis, is #48 in the AFL for games played.

It's quite a well-balanced list, age-wise, but they couldn't get the pieces to fit and now it's falling apart at the seams. Not irredeemable like Hawthorn's or North's, but it's going to take some magic to get it back on track.

 

[stfan]

Saints need defenders more than this kid.

No it is just that we have turned our backline over to a very young unit. So we just need to get games into them, and they will get stronger. Carlisle is the only old hand now with Geary playing as a defensive forward this year and may be not best 22 next season.

So our backline should just get better from now on. Eventually Carlisle will need replacing but the midfield is the more urgent need.

We have gone from:

Geary Brown Webster
Roberton Carlisle Savage

to

Paton Howard Wilkie
Coffield Carlisle Clark/Long

Battle can also play CHB as he showed last year, but ultimately floating HF will probably be his role.

Just look how Long 45, Coffield 36 , Clark 47 and Paton 35 games all improved this year. With more games they will just get better.

Yes Wilkie on 41 games started from game 1 like a veteran but that is rare and he was 23 when he debuted with a solid SANFL record. So in effect he had good experience against men even if not at AFL level.

Battle at 40 games is looking better and better.

Ryder showed he is better than we thought he would be and so should be good in 2021, and so we do not need to hunt for a good ruckman to support Marshall this trade period.

We are ok in most position, but lack quality in the inside midfield. So I fully expect the Saints to focus on that this trade/draft period.

 

[Giant Pete]

This is the first year GWS has been behind the clock.

Year	Avg Age	Age Rank	Ladder	Diff
2012	21.91	18th	18th	-
2013	21.64	18th	18th	-
2014	22.36	18th	16th	+2
2015	23.24	18th	11th	+7
2016	24.84	11th	4th	+7
2017	25.08	10th	4th	+6
2018	25.21	10th	6th	+4
2019	25.59	7th	2nd	+5
2020	25.91	7th	10th	-3

Nothing really to worry about at this stage, window well and truly open. (Thought Mumford was playing on?)

Yeah he is but we are looking at another mature ruck eg Preuss, and we have Flynn who is about 24 yrs old and Briggs who is 21.
Mummy will be genuine backup and I reckon part time coach.

 

[camcam]

Your a bloody nuffie if you dont think going from 14th to 6th and winning a final and being the 3rd youngest team hasn't shown their trading was successful you must be blind. They were on the bottom for tears and couldn't get any decent players into their team , Clark and coffield were top 10 picks aswas King so their is plenty of your growing within the club

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