Kangaroos List V BuLLDogs List

[Roonaldo!]

Another example of good input from the Roo's.

Gee they breed them intelligently down at Arden St.

Why don't you just stick with soccer?

Show me a decent player from your Bulldogs and i'll shut up on the issue.

 

[Roonaldo!]

Thanks for your input. Maybe you can start a thread comparing your list to the Bombers and you can suck 16 of them.

Are we?

No, so shut up.

 

[The_Flying_Egg]

Show me a decent player from your Bulldogs and i'll shut up on the issue.

In 2004 Scott West came 3rd in the Brownlow, made the AA team and won his 6th B and F. He's also in our Team of the Century and the best ballwinner in the league. I think that qualifies him as decent.

Umm...Brent Harvey was injured this year and way out of form....so considering ths.....57 aint that much....

I know Harvey was down this year. Thats why I said what I did. The post I was replying too said you couldn't compare Smith to Grant, Harvey or Simpson, which considering the dissapointing year Harvey had is ridiculous. I like Harvey, I personally think at his best he's your best player and I think at his best he's better than Smith. But too say Smith can't be compared to him and is finished is ridiculous.

Whatever way you look at it 20 touches a game off the HBF, when you have Smith's disposal is a pretty good effort

 

[Lidge]

forget the newbies and veterans and concentrate on the players with 50->100 games to their name. These are the players that will decide the success of the clubs over the next 2 years.

For the doggies, these players are:

Patrick Bowden
Daniel Cross
Daniel Giansiracusa
Mitch Hahn
Ryan Hargreave
Brian Harris
Rober Murphy
Sam Power
Jordan MacMahon

Theres a bit of talent there, I hope it is just waiting to be harnessed effectively to become realized. But there is only 1 true tall in that list (Harris) and 2 mediums (Hargreave and Bowden). The rest are midfielders and flankers.

Dunno what the equivialnt north list looks like, but its probably more balanced.

Here's the North equivalent:

Leigh Harding - 54 games
Corey Jones - 58 games
Drew Petrie - 63 games
Brady Rawlings - 91 games
Shannon Watt - 69 games

Others who are just outside of the 50-100 game bracket include:

John Baird - 42 games
Daniel Harris - 47 games
Daniel Motlop - 44 games
Daniel Wells - 40 games
Troy Makepeace - 104 games
Leigh Brown - 106 games

Concur with Stefoid, that Norths bunch of players in this category is more balanced with a good blend of talls, medium sized & small players.

Call me biased, but I also believe that these North players collectively are bigger, stronger and more skillful with several of them capable of being match winners. Don't see a 'match winner' amongst the Dogs list of 50-100 gamers.

 

[Z_K]

Don't see a 'match winner' amongst the Dogs list of 50-100 gamers.

I do.

Rob Murphy is a star. Harris will be a a very good FB. Hahn is a very good player. The rest I could take or leave.

 

[Lidge]

I do.

Rob Murphy is a star. Harris will be a a very good FB. Hahn is a very good player. The rest I could take or leave.

As a match winner, I meant the ability to win a game off your own boot. No doubt Murphy is a top line player, or no doubt over the ability of Harris or Hahn.

But I don't watch many Footscray games.

No denying the X Factor of a few of our boys though. Now that Croft has left - what other explosive excitement machines do they have?

 

[Ipaidmy200in89]

The reality is most of us love our teams and players and very few people can objectively review their own lists.

Lidge's comments in his/her last post outline that view. (x factor....and no denying it!!!)

I personally will defend the Bulldog list and often mis represent my own thoughts to do that. Just the way it is as a Bulldog supporter.

As the end of the day the best list will win games against the other. Probably the only true indicator. Last year we were lucky to win both, this year is another story and I am sure we all await the first encounter between our teams in 2005.

Good luck in 2005.

 

[Dog Town]

North finished on top of us by quite a margin so you would have to go with them for the moment.I dont take to much out of the fact that we beat them twice last year because we always seem to pull out this crisp,precise running game against them and have done since probably 97.I dont think they can match our pace.The fact remains that North were pretty unlucky to miss the finals again last year and we were a cellar dweller.I feel for Laidley.I think the guy can coach but he has come to North at the wrong time and he had no choice but to try to look after himself by recruiting Thompson this year.I think if it was a new coach then there is no way those draft picks would have been traded.

Having said all that I think our list has far greater scope for improvement.The group of youngsters we took in 2000 and 2001 haven't really kicked on but we deliberately recruited lightly framed players and they are just starting to get to a size where they will be capable of being consistent league players.Gilbee,Birss and Cross were all in white hot form by the end of the season and would have averaged 20 plus touches a game for the last 5 rounds.Guys like Mcmahon (who I know you dont rate North Bhoy) ,Power,Hahn and Harris are starting to kick on a bit but Power is probably my biggest concern.All those guys I mentioned still have a heap of improvement in them and so do the established guys like Guido (torched North in round 6) and Rob Murphy.

Outside that group we then have our newest batch of youngsters that we were able to get with the first batch of high draft picks that we have had for a long time.Cooney,Ray,Griffen,Faulkner,Minson,Williams,Walsh and B.Murphy.Thats almost a whole side of young talent.Some might not live up to there potential but I think the potential of that group is considerably greater than that of Norths youngsters.I suppose its just a matter of opinion.You tend to see the best in players when you watch them every week and most of our young midfielders have had multiple 20 plus possesion games which is probably why we overhype them.They need to do it consistently.

 

[Shagga#6]

Some interesting comments Dogtown.

Do you think that Rhode was trying to save his bacon with the Veale deal that secured Rawlings? And do you feel that pick 6 and the player (Alvey?) was too much for Rawlings?

I will be interested to compare the form of Rawlings to Thompson this year, givne that we were keen on Rawlings which is why we got in early to get Thompson.

Back to the topic, I'd have to say I favour the Roos as well. Most of the Dogs emerging talent all seems to be in the smaller brigade, and many of those seem to be very light on. Love Mitch Hahn and there are certainly some other classy types in the midfield, but I can't see too many talls pushing through.

You've certainly done North for pace and used your small fowards to expose us in the past. I always fear the Dogs games as North seems to unestimate the Dogs, roll up and think they shoudl win, and often lose as a result of not being switch on (Canberra game, grrr.)

My tip for 2005 in the dogs will get better, but only by a few more wins (2-4), and the Roos will also imporve, maybe 1-4 wins better, sneaking us into the 8.

Some cracking battles between the two teams though.

 

[windsock]

Thanks for your input. Maybe you can start a thread comparing your list to the Bombers and you can suck 16 of them.

Does it not embarrass you that you are using the success of another team to insult another? Just serves to highlight your own club's lack of success I would have thought!

On the topic, I think each are evenly matched. As has been said, the Roos' talls are probably more promising, but the Dogs have a nice batch of midfielders coming through (heard great things about Griffen). But as a Roo, of course I'm going to plum for the Kangas, but only just.

The Dogs have been massive underachievers over the past couple of years.
A club that has, over the past 24 months, had players the calibre of Johnson, West, Darcy, Brown, Grant and Smith, as well as a promising batch of youngsters, should be absolutely embarrassed to have finished at or near the bottom both years.

Their supporters should feel ripped off big time and will be really disappointed some of their club legends will probably be declining as some of these kids should be hitting their straps. I reckon Rocket will be a great boon for the Club, but you'd think he has a bit of work to do to build a winning culture at the kennel.

 

[SCRAY72]

Of those picks (ie, the ones we haven't had because we have finished higher) who gives you the edge in your opinion?

We have had one, so lets say Wells cancels out Cooney.

Ray...? Dave Trotter would have played games with you guys last year.

Griffen? Haven't seen him, but is he HEAPS better than Jesse Smith (again, haven't seen either)..?

Walsh I have seen, and you stuffed it right up.

Very, very risky pick in Williams. Personally, this would have ********ed me off.

I gather you think Williams is a risk because of his very limited AFL background. Plenty of players, whether they are top 10 or top 100 are a risk.
I am happy to wait and see. Tom Williams has played little AFL but shows enormous potential and is developing rapidly. Former top 10 draftees with plenty of AFL junior experience for example Angwin,McAllister,Vance,Pettifer,Roach,Molan to name a few have not made it.

 

[SCRAY72]

Does it not embarrass you that you are using the success of another team to insult another? Just serves to highlight your own club's lack of success I would have thought!

On the topic, I think each are evenly matched. As has been said, the Roos' talls are probably more promising, but the Dogs have a nice batch of midfielders coming through (heard great things about Griffen). But as a Roo, of course I'm going to plum for the Kangas, but only just.

The Dogs have been massive underachievers over the past couple of years.
A club that has, over the past 24 months, had players the calibre of Johnson, West, Darcy, Brown, Grant and Smith, as well as a promising batch of youngsters, should be absolutely embarrassed to have finished at or near the bottom both years.

Their supporters should feel ripped off big time and will be really disappointed some of their club legends will probably be declining as some of these kids should be hitting their straps. I reckon Rocket will be a great boon for the Club, but you'd think he has a bit of work to do to build a winning culture at the kennel.

Not really.

 

[stefoid]

As a match winner, I meant the ability to win a game off your own boot. No doubt Murphy is a top line player, or no doubt over the ability of Harris or Hahn.

But I don't watch many Footscray games.

No denying the X Factor of a few of our boys though. Now that Croft has left - what other explosive excitement machines do they have?

doggies X factor players:

Murph
Darce
Cooney
Macmahon (consistancy issues holding him back)

not a huge list

 

[Ipaidmy200in89]

doggies X factor players:

Murph
Darce
Cooney
Macmahon (consistancy issues holding him back)

not a huge list

is x factor relating to one's ability to win a game of one's own boot? If so, there is only about 6 or 7 in the entire comp. We don't have anyone.......
although Cooney might be one!!!! (that is a big call after what I believe to be only 1 stand out game in his career. Albeit short so far)

 

[OldSchool]

The reality is most of us love our teams and players and very few people can objectively review their own lists.

Lidge's comments in his/her last post outline that view. (x factor....and no denying it!!!)

I personally will defend the Bulldog list and often mis represent my own thoughts to do that. Just the way it is as a Bulldog supporter.

As the end of the day the best list will win games against the other. Probably the only true indicator. Last year we were lucky to win both, this year is another story and I am sure we all await the first encounter between our teams in 2005.

Good luck in 2005.

Couldn't agree more. I actually rate the Roo's list but of course I see ours as potentially better. Happy to discuss it with any Kangaroo supporter.

 

[Dog Town]

Some interesting comments Dogtown.

Do you think that Rhode was trying to save his bacon with the Veale deal that secured Rawlings? And do you feel that pick 6 and the player (Alvey?) was too much for Rawlings?

.

Of course he was.It is the nature of the job.I often wonder whether some of the so called super coaches are really that good.You need to be given a good list to start with.Very few clubs are going to sit back and allow a first time coach to build a list from scratch although I think we might see more patience from clubs now after seeing the Stkilda and Geelong rebuild with youth.

I will be interested to compare the form of Rawlings to Thompson this year, givne that we were keen on Rawlings which is why we got in early to get Thompson.

.

I thought Rawlings did the job that we got him in for but his body didn't let him perform to the levels he was early in the season.That was always going to make or break the trade.We were probably in a position where we could afford to look at an established star because we already had two top 5 picks.I would think Thompson will have a similar year to Rawlings.

Back to the topic, I'd have to say I favour the Roos as well. Most of the Dogs emerging talent all seems to be in the smaller brigade, and many of those seem to be very light on. Love Mitch Hahn and there are certainly some other classy types in the midfield, but I can't see too many talls pushing through.

Yeah it is definetly the weakness in our list.Outside Bowden and Harris we dont have any real proven young talls.There are 3 or 4 who I am pretty confident will come through.I did like the way North drafted more for needs than we did in taking Petrie,Hale,Mcintosh,Jones and the like but the proof will be in the pudding because none of those guys has shown they will be exceptional talls yet.Petrie should be in the elite but theres no guarantees with talls.With slightly lower than normal young midfield stocks you will need to be very strong down the spine.Dylan Smiths failure to come through probably hurt you in that regard.Harris is a find but he needs more support and some quality running options.

 

[Z_K]

With slightly lower than normal young midfield stocks you will need to be very strong down the spine.

Disagree with that.

Harris and Wells are starting midfielders or will be this year. Rawlings is 23 and just won the B+F. Grima will be an excellent footballer. Trotter start back but move into the middle. Motlop will play on a wing/on the ball if he finally shakes his injury issues. Ash Watson is extremely talented but still very light.

Always looking for more depth of course, but I am confident all of those guys will be good players (maybe not Watson) if they are not already.

 

[Dog Town]

Disagree with that.

Harris and Wells are starting midfielders or will be this year. Rawlings is 23 and just won the B+F. Grima will be an excellent footballer. Trotter start back but move into the middle. Motlop will play on a wing/on the ball if he finally shakes his injury issues. Ash Watson is extremely talented but still very light.

Always looking for more depth of course, but I am confident all of those guys will be good players (maybe not Watson) if they are not already.

You would have seen more of those guys than me but there is still question marks over them.Laidley needs to play them even if it means you slip down a few rungs for a season.

 

[Cuneyt]

Bulldogs have better talent.

 

[stefoid]

is x factor relating to one's ability to win a game of one's own boot? If so, there is only about 6 or 7 in the entire comp. We don't have anyone.......
although Cooney might be one!!!! (that is a big call after what I believe to be only 1 stand out game in his career. Albeit short so far)

My definition of X factor is the ability to do something e(X)traordinary such as:

kick a freakish snap goal
burst or weave out of heavy traffic and deliver the ball
take a contested speccy
kick a loooong goal
rove a pack at full tilt
win a contest and waltz away with the ball

X factor is great to have for footys sake, but you can have a star player who doesnt have it who is just as important to the team. like a West or Dunstal for example.

by that definition, I should add rohan smith to the doggies X players. regularly breaks lines , delivers the ball and kicks the odd looong goal playing from half back.