Keeping Tippett an uphill battle: Crows

[Crow-mo]

The pick we'd get for Tippett is actually dependent upon where we finish that season.

The rules for the GC compensation drafts are as follows..

The player is to be judged under a formula, the criteria for which have been made public but not the weightings. Assuming Tippett is rated as highly as we expect, we'd be getting tier-one or tier-two compensation: a first round selection, or a pick between the first and second rounds (most likely the former).

We have 5 years to use this draft selection, but it can't be used in 2010 or 2011, as these are the GC & WS drafts. We have to declare at the START of the season that we intend to use the selection. Assuming it's tier-one compensation, the draft pick we get would immediately follow our regular first round selection - if we finish 15th it would be pick #3, if we win the flag it would be pick #17 (ignoring priority picks). If it's tier-two, we get the pick between the first & second round picks - presumably they'd use reverse ladder order to sort out the case where multiple teams are claiming players in this region, nobody has a clue how priority picks fit in here.

gosh, so its even worse than I imagined.

 

[cmndstab]

That's an awful compensation policy. So they're expecting clubs to nominate which year they intend to do poorly in? That's going to give an even bigger incentive to tank!


Now not only are you going for draft pick 1, but for draft picks 1 and 2 as well? My God, it's awful.


What if you had draft pick 10, and you trade away pick 10 and a player for pick 5, do you then get the extra one at pick 6 or pick 11?


This is a nightmarishly bad compensation system.

 

[cmndstab]

Do you have a link for that, Vader? I'd love to read their policy in full.


From recollection, Johnstone (who went to Sydney I think?) was Rendell's next available choice after Davis last year. It will be interesting to see if that would have been a good pickup for us (we would have ended up with 5 talls from that draft then! Unless not picking Johnstone would have changed the whole balance of the draft - wouldn't it be fascinating if that extra tall not being there meant that Sydney would go for a different tall and the roll-on effect meant that McKernan went before our pick... depending on how Shaun and Johnstone end up going, it could end up being a disadvantage having an extra pick!)

 

[Cap]

that makes no sense. the whole point of having an AFL commission is that they get to make decisions that piss off the clubs, the point was that the clubs were very short term in their thinking and were shooting themselves, and the comp in the foot. so they ceded all power to the commission who can basically do whatever they like, and the clubs have to like it.

upsetting the clubs isn't an issue for them - after all, lowering the compensation paid, helps the new club. and isn't that supposedly in the interests of the league as a whole?

wait, the whole point of the clubs ceeding their power to this entity was to piss them off? that seems a rather cyncial view on things.

I also can't get my head around your last sentence. Surely the interests for the league as a whole would be to create a new club that is competative (well aleast not shit) whilst ensuring the existing clubs remain the same

ok, fair enough. but that's not a top 10 pick, you are now talking top 5, top 6 something like that?

now you've placed a pretty high value on him, and a lot of faith in Anderson et al to see it your way.

surely you can see the logic in wanting to not go down that path? after all, what if the GC take someone even better from elsewhere and we end up with the 2nd or 3rd best pick on offer? and that's precisely how West Coast got Michael Gardiner for example. offered up something better to Port and jumped the queue

Don't get me wrong I don't want him to go, but if he does I expect the AFL to get it right. Bar a some bizzare incident or someone in the next 12 months being recruited from the GC and being better than Tippet, he will be the no.1 priority.

I would be very interested to see who better they will be able to convince to move up. Also considering the draft picks (8 of the top 10?) in reality getting 5 or 6th pick isn't going to make a massive difference.

edit - just read vaders post. Damn

 

[Macjoe]

I hope these recent posts are hyperthetical. Remember, Kurt Tippett and his manager Peter Blucher have both said he doesn't want to go. It's been said before, but is worth repeating: any manager worth his salt (and even for a Queenslander, Peter Blucher is apparently pretty good) is NOT going to let Kurt sign a contract 15 months before he has to when he's on such an uphill curve. We will have that fabulous forward 6.

 

[Crow-mo]

wait, the whole point of the clubs ceeding their power to this entity was to piss them off? that seems a rather cyncial view on things.

not cynical at all. slightly colourful phrasing sure. but it is actually true - the commission's job is to piss the clubs off - as in making the hard decisions they wouldn't make if its left up to them. tough love as it were.
if the commission isn't pissing them off, then it is not doing its job and has no reason to exist.

I also can't get my head around your last sentence. Surely the interests for the league as a whole would be to create a new club that is competative (well aleast not shit) whilst ensuring the existing clubs remain the same

the idea is to grow, and part of that is to get the new club up and running as soon as possible. new demographics require more than being not shit.

smooth waters for the existing club isn't part of the deal, they got to take a little short term discomfort for the overall long term benefit.

Don't get me wrong I don't want him to go, but if he does I expect the AFL to get it right. Bar a some bizzare incident or someone in the next 12 months being recruited from the GC and being better than Tippet, he will be the no.1 priority.

understand that. and he should be their no.1 target. I do not have any faith in the AFL doing us any favours. aside from anything else, we are one of the power clubs, and like the gibbs affair, the league is under a lot of pressure to not be seen to be giving us diddly. history has shown us we should not wait for the commissions benevolence.

I would be very interested to see who better they will be able to convince to move up. Also considering the draft picks (8 of the top 10?) in reality getting 5 or 6th pick isn't going to make a massive difference.

edit - just read vaders post. Damn

I know.

 

[Vader]

Here's a link to an AFL.com.au article explaining the GC draft concessions.

Here's a quote of the relevant bits..

As part of the entry rules for the Gold Coast side, the AFL Commission resolved that any club that lost a player to the expansion side would be eligible for a compensation pick (after the entry of both Gold Coast and the second club to be based in Sydney).

Compensation picks will be tradeable and can be used by clubs at any time within five years. First round compensation picks cannot be used until the end of the first round in the 2010 and 2011 drafts. Clubs will be required to nominate the year in which they plan to use the compensation pick before the first round of the Toyota AFL Premiership Season in that particular year.

The compensatory pick would be assessed around the player’s age (greater weighting for younger players), club contract ranking (greater weighting for club key players), onfield performance (greater weighting for strong club best and fairest performance) and draft position if less than four years experience.

This ranking system will then determine if a club is eligible for a compensatory pick in one of five spots – first-round pick, end-of-first-round pick, second-round pick, end-of-second-round pick or third-round pick. Under the model, the round-one, round-two or round-three picks would be taken immediately after the pick the club already has in that round in the draft that year.

They have subsequently announced that the formula has now been created, but will remain secret to prevent abuse by clubs "in the know".

I did make one small error - first round picks CAN be used in 2010 & 2011, but not until AFTER the end of the first round. This would be a severe waste if you had a "first-round pick" rather than an "end-of-first-round pick".

 

[Macjoe]

Vader, you are a champion. Very impressive knowledge and understanding. Thanks.

 

[Vader]

A bit more on the role of the AFL Commission. It wasn't created to piss the clubs off - that's a bit of poetic license on Crow-mo's behalf.

It was essentially created to save the clubs from themselves. Throughout the 70s and 80s they were sending themselves broke, spending more than they earned, usually by poaching players from each other and the non-Victorian competitions. The clubs (naturally) thought of their own short-term futures first, not considering what was best for themselves or the competition in the longer term. Eventually, it reached a point where they realised that the direction they were going was no longer sustainable.

They created the AFL Commission to manage the competition as a whole. The idea was that it would be impartial, not beholden to any individual club. It would promote the competition, not individual clubs. As such, it was empowered to take some unpopular decisions for the betterment of the competition overall. Hence, pissing the clubs off.

 

[Cap]

Here's a link to an AFL.com.au article explaining the GC draft concessions.

Here's a quote of the relevant bits..


They have subsequently announced that the formula has now been created, but will remain secret to prevent abuse by clubs "in the know".

I did make one small error - first round picks CAN be used in 2010 & 2011, but not until AFTER the end of the first round. This would be a severe waste if you had a "first-round pick" rather than an "end-of-first-round pick".

so I have to retract my previous posts.

I never really liked the colon

 

[Crow-mo]

A bit more on the role of the AFL Commission. It wasn't created to piss the clubs off - that's a bit of poetic license on Crow-mo's behalf.

It was essentially created to save the clubs from themselves. Throughout the 70s and 80s they were sending themselves broke, spending more than they earned, usually by poaching players from each other and the non-Victorian competitions. The clubs (naturally) thought of their own short-term futures first, not considering what was best for themselves or the competition in the longer term. Eventually, it reached a point where they realised that the direction they were going was no longer sustainable.

They created the AFL Commission to manage the competition as a whole. The idea was that it would be impartial, not beholden to any individual club. It would promote the competition, not individual clubs. As such, it was empowered to take some unpopular decisions for the betterment of the competition overall. Hence, pissing the clubs off.

exactly. I rest my case.

 

[SugarShane]

You can listen to the interview here, from yesterday morning for anyone who missed it, it's just less than half way through.

http://www.kgandthegeneral.com.au/Episodes/p122.aspx

 

[drdave]

As part of the entry rules for the Gold Coast side, the AFL Commission resolved that any club that lost a player to the expansion side would be eligible for a compensation pick (after the entry of both Gold Coast and the second club to be based in Sydney).

So lets asume the second Sydney does not eventuate. The way this reads it means that the compensation pick could never be used.

 

[drdave]

You can listen to the interview here, from yesterday morning for anyone who missed it, it's just less than half way through.

http://www.kgandthegeneral.com.au/Episodes/p122.aspx

Peter Blucher, Kurt Tippett's manager says that he will not be playing for the Gold Coast. Kurt has bought a house in Glenelg, and his girlfriend spends a lot of time in Adelaide.

(ps I like the combo of KG and Smyth on this show, quite good content quality in the program, and no ego of Cornsey in the show is a bonus)

 

[cmndstab]

You can listen to the interview here, from yesterday morning for anyone who missed it, it's just less than half way through.

http://www.kgandthegeneral.com.au/Episodes/p122.aspx

Thanks for this. For some wierd reason it won't let me skip ahead, it justs loses the sound. I'll load it up overnight and skip to it tomorrow.

 

[Crow-mo]

Peter Blucher, Kurt Tippett's manager says that he will not be playing for the Gold Coast. Kurt has bought a house in Glenelg, and his girlfriend spends a lot of time in Adelaide.

Go research some of Chris Judd's comments.

there were doozies about how he didn't want to live anywhere but claremont, and wasn't going anywhere.

Facts:
1. he has (wisely) lined up his contract to expire on GC entry
2. he has up until now, refused to sign an extension.

it's still all to play for.

 

[jenny61_99]

I hope these recent posts are hyperthetical. Remember, Kurt Tippett and his manager Peter Blucher have both said he doesn't want to go. It's been said before, but is worth repeating: any manager worth his salt (and even for a Queenslander, Peter Blucher is apparently pretty good) is NOT going to let Kurt sign a contract 15 months before he has to when he's on such an uphill curve. We will have that fabulous forward 6.

Absolutely. Why sign NOW when at the end of the year you will be in a position to pretty much name your price? Very clever if you ask me.

 

[moogerfooger]

GC is a new club with a lot still unknown about who will play for it, who will coach it, how competitive they will be etc etc. very much an unknown quantity. they could be a west coast or a freo.

in 15 months Tippett will be in a stronger bargaining position - but IMO so will the AFC, which could well be on the verge of challenging for a flag.

 

[Pietmans]

Today's Advertiser article from Michelangelo Rucci seems to be a bit behind the times.

(Perhaps he has stopped monitoring BigFooty for a few days?)

The comments attributed to Neil Craig were made (from memory) last weekend and just made the press today, and he obviously isn't aware that KG and Rucci's good mate Phil Smythe had talked to his manager yesterday.

Of course, it could be I suppose he could be ignoring Blutchers comments because writing about KT possibly leaving sells more papers than writing about him wanting to stay.

 

[SugarShane]

Absolutely. Why sign NOW when at the end of the year you will be in a position to pretty much name your price? Very clever if you ask me.

I wouldn't expect him to sign before the end of this year, however, if round 1 2010 comes around and he hasn't signed, then i'd start raising the warning flags.

 

[WALL-e]

I expect a signing Between February and June 2010.

 

[cmndstab]

I expect a signing Between February and June 2010.

Agreed.

 

[afc1991]

Today's Advertiser article from Michelangelo Rucci seems to be a bit behind the times.

(Perhaps he has stopped monitoring BigFooty for a few days?)

The comments attributed to Neil Craig were made (from memory) last weekend and just made the press today, and he obviously isn't aware that KG and Rucci's good mate Phil Smythe had talked to his manager yesterday.

Of course, it could be I suppose he could be ignoring Blutchers comments because writing about KT possibly leaving sells more papers than writing about him wanting to stay.

Wasnt it just a rehash of Capel's rehash of the article that was floating around online days earlier?

 

[Riggy1]

nice to see on page 70 of the tiser today that Tippett has bought a house in Glenelg, and the only reason that he is holding out is for a better contract for himself. He loves the city, and wants to repay the club after giving a no body a chance.

 

[tigris72]

nice to see on page 70 of the tiser today that Tippett has bought a house in Glenelg, and the only reason that he is holding out is for a better contract for himself. He loves the city, and wants to repay the club after giving a no body a chance.

Absolutely! It would be awesome for him to stay as a way of saying thanks for giving me a go. Obviously nothing is certain until the signature is on the line but at least this looks very promising.