Review Knightmare's 2010-2013 top 40

[TheJaegerBomb]

So they got these players as well as all the top picks in the actual draft and then Mini Draft picks as well? That is ridiculous, anyone know where GCs prelisted players were rated?

Good question actually. Would love to know where Knightmare think the likes of Mckenzie, May, Matera, Shaw etc would have fit... I would only have one of them in the top 10 (Mckenzie)

 

[Offsider]

Good question actually. Would love to know where Knightmare think the likes of Mckenzie, May, Matera, Shaw etc would have fit... I would only have one of them in the top 10 (Mckenzie)

At the time when they were picked up (2010) it was a lot different. Josh Toy was probably viewed as pick 2, Maverick Weller was hard to place but could have been top 10, Alex Keath (went to cricket) could have gone top 5. McKenzie, Russell and Matera were all likely first round types. The group that Gold Coast picked up were viewed quite highly (not quite as highly as GWS) but for various reasons many of them have not come on.

It is hard to place most of these prospects as they were all picked up a year early and did not have that extra year of development and did not play in the champs with many of the other players who really developed well with that extra year. So in many cases it is a little futile in placing them in the actual draft order at that time.

 

[TheJaegerBomb]

At the time when they were picked up (2010) it was a lot different. Josh Toy was probably viewed as pick 2, Maverick Weller was hard to place but could have been top 10, Alex Keath (went to cricket) could have gone top 5. McKenzie, Russell and Matera were all likely first round types. The group that Gold Coast picked up were viewed quite highly (not quite as highly as GWS) but for various reasons many of them have not come on.

It is hard to place most of these prospects as they were all picked up a year early and did not have that extra year of development and did not play in the champs with many of the other players who really developed well with that extra year. So in many cases it is a little futile in placing them in the actual draft order at that time.

Good points but I do mean a more in hindsight look at where they would fit.

 

[Knightmare]

So they got these players as well as all the top picks in the actual draft and then Mini Draft picks as well? That is ridiculous, anyone know where GCs prelisted players were rated?

Gold Coast had some ripper prelisted players also with Weller and Russell the ones who I'm not yet sold on and Matera to a lesser extent a questionmark. You give GWS the edge with Cameron, Shiel, Treloar, Bugg among others mostly higher level talents.

Prelisted:
Tom Nicholls
Trent McKenzie
Matt Shaw
Brandon Matera
Luke Russell
Maverick Weller

The difference in what Gold Coast got - and this is how they relatively have gotten lucky is in the quality of their zone selections. How good is this Queensland talent?

Zone:
Rory Thompson
Charlie Dixon
Sam May (NT Zone)
Zac Smith
Joel Wilkinson
Tom Hickey (traded to St Kilda for a 1st round selection last year - Jesse Lonergan)

Zone selections (since establishment):
Alex Sexton
Jackson Allen
Clay Cameron

GWS really haven't added any NSW footballers of significance. Townsend looks handy, Whiley may have a chance of developing and Zachary Williams is showing signs but they just aren't in the same class as those Queensland Zone selections who you can just about build a team around.

 

[Livinthedream]

Hey Knightmare.

From all of your posts and threads you seem to have massive wraps on Bontempelli. Do I sense a bit of man love there

Enjoying your threads as much as ever.

 

[TheJaegerBomb]

Gold Coast had some ripper prelisted players also with Weller and Russell the ones who I'm not yet sold on and Matera to a lesser extent a questionmark. You give GWS the edge with Cameron, Shiel, Treloar, Bugg among others mostly higher level talents.

Prelisted:
Tom Nicholls
Trent McKenzie
Matt Shaw
Brandon Matera
Luke Russell
Maverick Weller

The difference in what Gold Coast got - and this is how they relatively have gotten lucky is in the quality of their zone selections. How good is this Queensland talent?

Zone:
Rory Thompson
Charlie Dixon
Sam May (NT Zone)
Zac Smith
Joel Wilkinson
Tom Hickey (traded to St Kilda for a 1st round selection last year - Jesse Lonergan)

Zone selections (since establishment):
Alex Sexton
Jackson Allen
Clay Cameron

GWS really haven't added any NSW footballers of significance. Townsend looks handy, Whiley may have a chance of developing and Zachary Williams is showing signs but they just aren't in the same class as those Queensland Zone selections who you can just about build a team around.

Great assessment as always.

If you had to slip Mckenzie in to the draft where would you take him? Based on the 2010 draft class output so far and potential etc.

 

[threenewpadlocks]

Hey Knightmare, I know that he's having a poor year, but where do you see Mitch Wallis' development heading? He's not in your top 50, but he had a great last year, and is starting to tag a bit last couple of weeks, playing good roles on Masten and Priddis on sunday.

 

[Knightmare]

Hey Knightmare.

From all of your posts and threads you seem to have massive wraps on Bontempelli. Do I sense a bit of man love there

Enjoying your threads as much as ever.

It took a little while to get on the Bontempelli bangwagon but the more I see the more I like.
As a tall midfielder with a late year birthday, developing as quickly as he is and playing some very strong footy and really developing his inside game. He's very much impressing me and has won my praise through strong performance.
Assuming he closes out the season strongly I'm seeing big upside in his game.

Great assessment as always.

If you had to slip Mckenzie in to the draft where would you take him? Based on the 2010 draft class output so far and potential etc.

McKenzie would have certainly gone first round in 2010 in an uncompromised draft. Quite possibly top 10 but not top 5.

On where he sits from that 2010 group other than maybe Tom Nicholls (who most fans outside of Gold Coast probably haven't even seen for more than 1-2 games yet) I'd have McKenzie as my no.1/2 until Swallow or someone else from that draft really breaks out.

I may change my mind again next year if others perform more strongly but McKenzie is the premier kick of the competition. He has that 65-70m range and while his short kicks can be hit and miss those long ones are absolute daggers not only going long but low and fast. Additionally in the back half he's finding plenty of it so he's that optimal sweeper but then also sound defensively being that taller type but with the pace to go with pretty much anyone.
His game is so special and so uniquely different but damaging (even more so than the other premier kicks in the competition in my view) so he's a guy any team would love to have.

Hey Knightmare, I know that he's having a poor year, but where do you see Mitch Wallis' development heading? He's not in your top 50, but he had a great last year, and is starting to tag a bit last couple of weeks, playing good roles on Masten and Priddis on sunday.

I think Wallis can make something of himself. Players have their ups and downs. Mitch just needs to receive more opportunity through the midfield - not the easiest thing in that very deep midfield. But give him that extra responsibility and with another strong preseason he can carve out a career.
It's not beyond him to work his way onto this list. But I'd like to see more first this year/next year as we haven't yet seen his best.

 

[Footyking123]

I dont understand why you rate Daniher so highly has barely done anything and I remember an out of shape full back by the name of Ben Lester keeping him to two goals last year.

Just don't rate him nearly as highly as lots of other people. Im sure he will go on to have a decent career but many below him will be better.

Also I don't understand why you rate Bontempelli so highly his good but not as good as you rate him IMO

 

[Zach Package]

I dont understand why you rate Daniher so highly has barely done anything and I remember an out of shape full back by the name of Ben Lester keeping him to two goals last year.

Just don't rate him nearly as highly as lots of other people. Im sure he will go on to have a decent career but many below him will be better.

Also I don't understand why you rate Bontempelli so highly his good but not as good as you rate him IMO

based on what specifically, i'm not having a go at you or getting defensive because it's joe, but I hate it when people say 'I just don't see it' and then offer nothing in the way of reasoning

 

[Substance]

Knightmare, you rate the 5 players taken directly after Toumpas as better? Have melbourne blown another top pick IYO?

Also, I know supporters from every club would say something about one of their players, but it's interesting that you don't have Dahlhaus in the top 50. He's a genuine match winner.

 

[Peter Wallis]

Not sure that I would include Isaac Smith in that list of 40. I know he's been a regular for the last 2 years but I think he is one of the few Hawks who are lucky to be getting a regular Gig.

I know he has pace, but his kicking is poor & he makes dumb decisions under pressure. I think he is only in the team because Hawthorn lack pace throughout their side & other than Rioli & Hill he is the only other player in the side that is quick.

 

[dipper86]

Wondering why Taylor Adams hasn't got a gig...he's been pretty impressive so far this year.

 

[Knightmare]

I dont understand why you rate Daniher so highly has barely done anything and I remember an out of shape full back by the name of Ben Lester keeping him to two goals last year.

Just don't rate him nearly as highly as lots of other people. Im sure he will go on to have a decent career but many below him will be better.

Also I don't understand why you rate Bontempelli so highly his good but not as good as you rate him IMO

Daniher I rate on upside. Same with Bontempelli. Neither are complete products. Both are just so tall by position and are already such impressive players by position that they really have the opportunity to become special players.

Knightmare, you rate the 5 players taken directly after Toumpas as better? Have melbourne blown another top pick IYO?

Also, I know supporters from every club would say something about one of their players, but it's interesting that you don't have Dahlhaus in the top 50. He's a genuine match winner.

My issue with Melbourne is less with drafting as it is player development.

Toumpas still has the opportunity to develop. Oliver Wines would probably have been the better selection hindsight tells us. But Toumpas has more than enough attributes to suggest he develops, he's just not coming along as quick as expected.
Melbourne so often are taking consensus top selections but when they don't develop as expected that's when you know development is the issue.

Not sure that I would include Isaac Smith in that list of 40. I know he's been a regular for the last 2 years but I think he is one of the few Hawks who are lucky to be getting a regular Gig.

I know he has pace, but his kicking is poor & he makes dumb decisions under pressure. I think he is only in the team because Hawthorn lack pace throughout their side & other than Rioli & Hill he is the only other player in the side that is quick.

We'll see more of Isaac Smith through the finals and know exactly where he is at when tested against better competition. I can't help but like the direction his game is going with his past month very impressive. He seems to be winning more of his own ball now and despite his age I think there may be more improvement left.

You are correct in your analysis. He likes that space to operate and when under pressure and really butcher the ball and make more decisions.

In saying that he's one I could through the finals change my mind on in a hurry but having seen him really perform in those big games before I'm interested to see whether he really makes a name for himself in this last part of the season.

Wondering why Taylor Adams hasn't got a gig...he's been pretty impressive so far this year.

He has played some strong football. Another strong year and further improvement and he can work his way up the list in a hurry.

 

[tboak]

1. chad wingard

 

[TradeDraft]

1. chad wingard

He is up there for Sure. Grundy will move up a long way next year

 

[Cleric]

Brad Crouchs form over the last 6 weeks puts him alot higher than you have on your list. Has performed well ahead of Stringer and Macrae.
I do agree with your ranking of Whitfield. Hasnt impressed me at all this year and wouldnt be taken at number 1 if it was redone. I think he is another Scully.

 

[Igloo]

Brad Crouchs form over the last 6 weeks puts him alot higher than you have on your list. Has performed well ahead of Stringer and Macrae.
I do agree with your ranking of Whitfield. Hasnt impressed me at all this year and wouldnt be taken at number 1 if it was redone. I think he is another Scully.

It's a potential and performance list. Hence players who haven't even played a game being in there.

 

[Some Idiot]

Grant worse again as someone who has frankly gone backwards with every year and failed to even develop his body which isn't good enough.

Since you said that Grant's got from strength to strength, Sorry to drag this off topic but how have you seen his last month?

 

[Cleric]

It's a potential and performance list. Hence players who haven't even played a game being in there.

Understood, however Crouch was very highly rated before playing and has been very impressive on the ground. Stocks should rise.

 

[Knightmare]

Brad Crouchs form over the last 6 weeks puts him alot higher than you have on your list. Has performed well ahead of Stringer and Macrae.
I do agree with your ranking of Whitfield. Hasnt impressed me at all this year and wouldnt be taken at number 1 if it was redone. I think he is another Scully.

Crouch can and will probably rise if/when I next update this.

On Whitfield I think he'll be better than Scully because he's a better user of the footy and likely to be a higher production player if he isn't already but like Scully I do think he'll remain more outside.

Since you said that Grant's got from strength to strength, Sorry to drag this off topic but how have you seen his last month?

He's had a strong past month hasn't he. The commentators blessing?

I have been watching the Dogs from a distance and the Dogs are starting to intrigue with things starting to click with that midfield really starting to click along with Minson's continued dominance.

As long as Grant is a 3rd target up forward and not expected to play as a key forward he has the opportunity to continue to succeed. I'm just not expecting his production to continue at this level though I'm always open to being surprised.

 

[captainrich]

no love for Billy Longer Knightmare? and Sam Mayes has shown plenty already as a midfielder that can go forward and hit the scoreboard has had a very impressive season for a 1st year player

 

[borderbarry]

No Saints in the top 50? Not surprising considering we have not had a top 20 pick in that period.
Joe Danaher at No.2? Must be based purely on potential. Cant even crack it for a Senior game at the moment. Miles behind Cameron.

 

[Knightmare]

no love for Billy Longer Knightmare? and Sam Mayes has shown plenty already as a midfielder that can go forward and hit the scoreboard has had a very impressive season for a 1st year player

Longer is good but I'd like to see him become a dominant ruckman first.

He's behind Leuenberger so it will be interesting to see how he goes long term as I don't see him as the no.1 guy in that ruck division.

Mayes has shown some strong signs this year with some big early performances but he's more a leadup and uncontested forward who isn't a guy who will go win his own footy at this point which may see him struggle later when clubs put more attention into him. When he takes that next step and steps into the midfield and starts winning more of his own footy I'll reward him with a position on this list.

No Saints in the top 50? Not surprising considering we have not had a top 20 pick in that period.
Joe Danaher at No.2? Must be based purely on potential. Cant even crack it for a Senior game at the moment. Miles behind Cameron.

Daniher is in there on potential. But when you're 203cm and can do what Daniher does I'll back him in to become big time. Whether he becomes the second best on the list is the question but at this early stage the sky is the limit.

Jeremy Cameron is the only player in this draft in his own category as someone I'd regard as not only a franchise face but the one of the future faces of the AFL if not THE face of the AFL pending Naitanui's health.

 

[DivideandMultiply]

Mathew Scarlett on 'Open Mike' early this year said that Gary Ablett Jnr was not in the best 5 players he had played with or played against.

Scarlett may have been an amazing player, but he also seems to be a bit of a tosser who can hold a grudge. I would take his opinions on other players with a very large grain of salt.